GOS2 sooner rather than later [Archive]

qccowboy

01-04-2010, 04:48 AM

So I've seen many mentions about GOS2, and some saying that because of the release of LASS and the imminent release of "Hollywood Strings" that Gary decided to delay the release of GOS2.

I looked up the system requirements for LASS, as well as the COST of Hollywood Strings, and all I can say is that unless GOS2 requires you to install on 2 (yes, two!) computers to just run it, and costs upwards of $1000, then sure, don't release it.

However, if GOS2 is anything like the other Garritan libraries, then god dammit, release it already.

Somehow, I can't imagine a Garritan product being "elitist" like these other products are.

LASS requires you to install it and run it on two different computers without which you will run in to performance issues.

While HS costs upwards of $1200 for the lower end version, and over $1600 for the higher end version.

LASS is also selling for over $1300.

Will GOS2 be as "high end" as those two libraries?

I would very much like to know what to expect.

I listened to the demos for each, and I wasn't impressed.. mostly because they just do the usual "film music" style demos that spotlight their library in only the most favorable light.

I want to hear them do a demo of some REAL music, not some movie/game underscore loaded with sound effects and "ooh / ahhh" choruses and massive taiko drums.

If GOS2 is going to be a library that requires a computer upgrade just to use, and forbids me from loading other instruments because of its own memory-hog requirements, then I'd also like to know. I want to know that I can continue to write for full symphony orchestra and still get nice demos from my Garritan products without my computer overloading.

I know I sound annoyed... and I guess I am.
I understand the medical emergency that has put the breaks on Gary's professional life, but the reasons I'm hearing for the delay of GOS2's release have nothing to do with that, and seem to be "marketing" reasons, more than anything.

Like I said, if GOS2 is gonna cost upwards of a grand, I want to know, now. I won't even consider it if that is the case, and will just settle for what I am using now.

If GOS2's memory usage is going to monopolize my computer to the point where I won't be able to load any other libraries at the same time, well, I would like to know that also.

I don't see much point in a library that ONLY allows me to write for strings.

LFO

01-04-2010, 11:01 AM

Hello Michel,
I get why you are frustrated, GOS2 has been a long time in coming. I've no inside information around the product, nor any information outside of what Gary has posted on the forum. However, I can tell you what I expect from the product. Most of this you probably have figured out on your own, but just in case...

First, the hardware requirements for GOS2 will be significantly more than GPO. Gary will always try to keep system requirements down and he and Tom find ingenious ways to do so. However, the bar has been raised significantly since GOS came out and to be competitive GOS2 will require more horsepower to not only compete but to beat the competition. As I see the Aria player today, it will be useful for GPO and similar libraries like JABB, however GOS2 is going to incorporate Giga tech and then improve on it (why else would Gary purchase the technology?) and it will require horsepower and scripting that Aria, at least in its current incarnation, does not begin to approach. Maybe there will be an Aria Pro? Maybe a completely separate engine? I've no idea. It will be interesting to see what he has brewing!

So what hardware requirements would I guess for GOS2? At least a quad core with 8 gig of RAM. This is a qualified estimate based on what I see across another dozen products out today, so I think it is fair. Anyone in this world (meaning libraries of this size and not the GPOs of the world) would be foolish to purchase anything less these days. Articulations require CPU!

The world of a two computer setup is becoming more commonplace given the lower cost of entry these days. You can build a Windows box (I do and my main box is a Mac) and use VE Pro to host samples on the second box. It works well, is compatible with products other than the VE products and is not difficult to get up and running. Something worth looking into. Certainly GOS2 will be capable in one way or another to take advantage of a multi box system. Whether it is a part of the GOS2 architecture or you use it with something like VE Pro I have no idea.

Now about cost. Again, I have no insider information, nothing more than what you've seen on these boards. In other words when it comes to cost I've seen nothing. (And rightly so.) I believe GOS started at $1300. I can see GOS2 being in the same ballpark or less. I doubt it will be less than $800 and am planning my budget to accommodate at least that price point. One thing is for sure, it is not going to be $350! So there will be an investment to move into the realm of GOS2. Both hardware (unless you already have a quad core based system) and software. Best advice is to start stashing away cash now! This might take some pain out of the length of development. More time to save. :)

You mentioned a couple of other libraries that you have looked at. Hollywood Strings and LASS. What you said about both is true, big resource requirements, higher software cost, a Hollywood or cinema sound. There are several other options out there that cost less and are much more oriented to a classical sound than Hollywood. Some of them had some killer deals during the holidays, two of which I was able to take advantage of. I won't name products on Gary's forum out of respect, but you can PM me if you are not sure what products I am talking about. The beautiful thing about orchestral libraries is that you can use multiple libraries to blend in with each other to get a unique sound. GOS2 will fit in very nicely when it comes out.

I am really looking forward to GOS2. Gary has a guaranteed sale with me. Like many others, I own several libraries (I am the pinnacle of jack of all trades, master of none when it comes to orchestral libs!) but that is not a sign of disloyalty. It is a sign of hopeless addiction! :) If you are frustrated with the delay of GOS2 go out and buy another library that you can afford now and then pick up GOS2 later when it comes out. I don't think you will hurt Gary's feelings, you will have a lib to work with and Gary will still have you as a customer with GOS2.

-Kevin

swinkler

01-04-2010, 11:18 AM

rbowser-

01-04-2010, 11:44 AM

Michel, this from you gave me a good chuckle:

"...I want to hear them do a demo of some REAL music, not some movie/game underscore loaded with sound effects and "ooh / ahhh" choruses and massive taiko drums..."

hehehe--So right. We're surrounded by this Stuff - it's all we here in demos, at the movie theatre--ARRrrrrrgh we're engulfed by it! But don't you see?--That IS what people think of as orchestral music now. And a surprisingly large number of musicians actually want to write this stuff - because it's commercial. sigh.

Randy

raweber

01-04-2010, 11:59 AM

...and use VE Pro to host samples on the second box.

Kevin, could you elaborate on VE Pro? I did a Google search but didn't come up with anything that looked like an operating system, just a suite of analysis tools and some motorcycle engineering company...

Thanks!

Frank D

01-04-2010, 12:07 PM

Hi Guys,

This was an interesting read ... thank you Michel for formulating these questions; I'm sure many Users on this forum await GOS2 with the same 'baited breath' :).

And thanks to Kevin for the thoughtful reality check. The combination of these posts at least brings this topic back in the Forum's eye as we start 2010.

I'll add this: Like several other Users on this forum, I have a sizable investment in Giga. On my 'money' projects, I still use a combo of Giga for piano, bass, and strings, and JABB and GPO for most brass and reeds, particularly the JABB saxes which I prefer over a costly Giga sax library that I also own.

I appreciate what Kevin mentioned about Giga technology. For those not familiar, Giga streams samples in real time off of fast hard drives ... it doesn't load everything into RAM. That's how I can play my 2 Gb GigaPiano and another 10 Gb or so of Giga-samples (plus the KP Garritan stuff) and not have it eat up my entire 4 Gb of RAM! In my experience, I found I have more distributed horsepower using a combo of Giga in Sonar (via ReWire), plus 2-3 instances of KP2 (I still need to upgrade GPO to the Aria flavor) than a Sonar session where I used no Giga, and attempted to use 4-5 instances of KP2 and 100% JABB, GPO, etc.

Of course, I tip-toe around using Giga at all (I use Giga3 Orchestra-flavor), because since the Tascam divorce, it is pure vaporware with virtually no support. And although it performs flawlessly, and I have my music production PC Ghosted, I still dread the day I have to restore an image and have Giga challenge me for a NEW authorization code ... Ehhhh.

My point is, I can understand that a higher-end sample library may require a higher-end engine to use it. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't the original GOS originally a Giga library? (I may be wrong on that, but I thought I read that on this site once).

Just one last general comment/philosophy on sample libraries: I gave up long ago holding my breath for the next latest and greatest sample library (or in the 'old days', a new sample player a la EMU's Proteii, Kurzweil 1000 PX, etc.) I found I delayed making (and enjoying the process of creating) music because I wanted to optimize my next project with better samples. And guess what: there will always be another new product to start us salivating all over again!

Right now, personally, I'd LOVE to get JABB Aria ... but in the meantime, I'm not checking every 20 seconds if it's out yet. I use my KP2 JABB regularly and keep enjoying it and learning my craft and when it's out: FANTASTIC! In the meanwhile, I keep plugging along with what I have operational in my DAW and enjoy creating music.

And NO ... this was not a paid response by Gary ;):).

Regards,

Frank

tfishbein82

01-04-2010, 12:22 PM

Kevin, could you elaborate on VE Pro? I did a Google search but didn't come up with anything that looked like an operating system, just a suite of analysis tools and some motorcycle engineering company...

Thanks!
raweber: Vienna Ensemble Pro (http://vsl.co.at/en/65/71/1738/1356.vsl)

everyone: First, of course LA Scoring Strings (LASS) and Hollywood Strings are designed for film music. They're named that!

Second, I think the LASS demos show a good variety of styles by some talented composers. No mockups of classical repertoire, but LASS can probably handle that as well as anything else available.

Third, if you don't like the music, why not listen past that to the sound of the samples themselves. People use GPO for a wide range of styles, surely you can expect other sample libraries to be flexible.

qccowboy

01-04-2010, 12:26 PM

So, considering that there are already two VERY major "hollywood-ish" string libraries, does Garritan REALLY need to release one as well?

How about a string library for the orchestral composer who ISN'T writing Hollywood-style music?

As at least one other poster mentioned, I'd be VERY happy with an improved GPO strings that includes at least the standard articulations one expects from a string player.

I don't need 15 types of 1st violin section, with every conceivable mixture and weight of string sound (ie: 12 violins, 3 violins, 6 violins, 9 violins, 5 1/4 violins with the second cousin of the third one from the left, 8 old grannies playing violin with Jascha Heifitz, etc...).

I want my violin section to sound good, and be able to play col legno, pizz, harmonics, etc.

Is it REALLY necessary for Garritan to release a product that will have so much competition in the "realism" race?

So if GOS2 will incorporate Giga technology and require the purchase of another computer, then sadly, the upgrade to Aria I recently did of GPO will be my last purchase of a Garritan product. If this is truly the case, then Garritan products will be pricing themselves right out of the market, along with all the other libraries that are geared for people who make "final product" audio from their libraries.

I saw the testimonials on LASS - John Debney, Danny Elfman, and the likes. Somehow, I didn't think that Garritan products were aiming for that market.

I am now officially saddened.

swinkler

01-04-2010, 02:04 PM

I wouldn't lose heart yet Michel until we hear something official.

I really can't imagine Gary would abandon the model he's already set up of a light sample engine that doesn't require a large footprint and tons of computer resources. I guess I'm thinking he could offer different versions of the various products that would please people like you and I (samples are a means to an end) AND those who the samples are an end to themselves. Each user has different requirements and I have to think the technology and brilliance shown so far is available to both types of user.

Maybe someone will chime in who knows something official. I know how you feel though; I'd LOVE to have some string section harmonics and col legno.

Steve

Raymond62

01-04-2010, 02:14 PM

As long as there isn't GOS or GOS2 or whatever - and I will wait in patience until that date - would everybody in charge delete the demo's made with them? It sets the potential buyers on the wrong foot that these great renderings are possible with the present material.

Raymond

LFO

01-04-2010, 02:21 PM

Raweber - TFish beat me to the punch. Vienna Ensemble Pro. I was a Bidule user but have been very happy moving to VEPro.

QC - I don't think Gary has any intention of releasing a Hollywood Sound library. As with GOS, this will be a classic sounding library.

If GPO has all the basic articulations that one expects from a string player it ceases to be GPO. The whole point of the library is to offer fewer features to keep the price low. I could see Gary perhaps offering articulations from GOS that you could purchase and download, however pricing becomes sticky. You need to price articulations high enough so that you can't buy all the articulations at a price lower than the full orchestra and low enough to make it desirable for customers. I'm not sure it can be done, at least easily. Otherwise other libs would probably be doing it. Most companies divide libraries by instrument type (strings, brass, etc.) and keep the articulations in place. Articulations are what drive up the cost of libs to be sure. There is so much more to be sampled. For instance, the new Concert Strings II from Kirk Hunter has around 500,000 samples! :wow:

To be at this level, Gary will have to compete with the other developers at the realism level. It is unavoidable. In my mind he has the right product split today. GPO is clearly for sketching / students / hobbyists while GOS is for a more realistic and professional rendering. (Yes, I said professional. Sure, GPO can and does sound great, take Randy's `Dorian' for example. But does it match what one can do with, say, XSample? No. That's not a slam. It was never intended to. Apples and oranges.)

But what of the future? There may be a middle ground that Gary could target. For instance, he could take GOS and slim down the number of instruments and articulations and sell it for a lower price. Like the EWQL model with Silver, Gold and Platinum. Or he could beef of GPO, (though I am guessing he would have to start from scratch and resample the strings) by adding several new articulations and raise the price to $300 or so. There are options. It just comes down to whether it is financially sound or not.

I would not be discouraged just yet. Who knows what Gary will pull out of his hat? He keeps his ear very close to the market and will always react to demand if there is enough of it. Patience is the key at this point.

-Kevin

tfishbein82

01-04-2010, 03:20 PM

There may be a middle ground that Gary could target. For instance, he could take GOS and slim down the number of instruments and articulations and sell it for a lower price. Like the EWQL model with Silver, Gold and Platinum. Or he could beef of GPO, (though I am guessing he would have to start from scratch and resample the strings) by adding several new articulations and raise the price to $300 or so. There are options. It just comes down to whether it is financially sound or not.

By the way, this isn't new to the Garritan model. The strings in GPO are derivative of GOS recordings. Or in other words, a scaled down version of GOS was put into GPO for a lower price.

Additionally, there's a 3-tier pricing structure to versions of the Steinway, from $99 - $399.

qccowboy

01-04-2010, 03:36 PM

QC - I don't think Gary has any intention of releasing a Hollywood Sound library. As with GOS, this will be a classic sounding library...

...GPO is clearly for sketching / students / hobbyists while GOS is for a more realistic and professional rendering. (Yes, I said professional. Sure, GPO can and does sound great, take Randy's `Dorian' for example. But does it match what one can do with, say, XSample? No. That's not a slam. It was never intended to. Apples and oranges.)

I don't use GPO for "sketching", I am not a student, nor a "hobbyist". I am a professional composer who requires the use of a decent-sounding library to create demos for performers who will later be playing my music.

Unlike the people who create music for games, videos and movies, I am not attempting to create the final product from my GPO rendering. Therefore, I have no need for the hyper-realism of LASS and other like-minded libraries.

However, working as a composer, and requiring demos for my "clients", it would be nice to have access to reasonably usable (ie: from within my Notation program, for example) and reasonably priced (like most Garritan libraries have been thus far) orchestral strings.

I have already purchased Xsamples. They work wonderfully from within Finale 2010, and sound incredibly realistic. The price was also quite affordable, although a tiny bit more expensive than most of the Garritan products thus far.

Now, I would like the same thing from a string SECTION perspective. So far, the other products I have examined are either outrageously priced, or have ridiculous system requirements. Add to that, they are almost unanimously unusable from within a notation package like Finale.

I want and need a product that does not require an investment in new hardware (additional memory - which would also require a change in operating systems, or new processors), and which will function exactly as the Garritan products until now have been doing: from within Notation package, utilizing what is "written on the page" to create the music.

I was hoping that Garritan would be offering us just this product. At this point, I am afraid that the next Garritan library will be another of those unusable behemoths like LASS.

nikolas

01-04-2010, 04:32 PM

Michel,

I'm sorry but this will be the first time I'll dissagree with you on many points.

1. First of you genrelise (<-like that), you label sample libraries, composers, genres alike!
2. Second you come close to bashing libraries and developers alike (pretty much like people bash on GPO and further on Gary sometimes and you know perfectly well what I mean...).

This is the Garritan home and I respect Gary, his work, his products and all of you.

But I think we need to be reminded that the Steinway (a single piano) had 3 versions, the pro of which was more than $600 (if I remember correctly), while the initial price of GOS was more than $1000 back in the day. Further to that GOS wasn't really far from any "Hollywood" sounding sample library, in fact it was the first (and awesome if I may say so), to have such a thick and lush sound!

The fact that you are calling libraries 'elitistic' means that you think people (like me) who ARE creating the final product on their computers (unlike you) are probably silly or something to be buying more expensive products!

You ARE actually creating (very good imo, exactly like etlux and others do) renders and sketches, but your pieces ARE aimed for live performance so, exaclty as you say you do not need the hyper realism of LASS.

But if you sit down and think, Garritan products have been divided in two groups for me. The general, rather cheap, extremely well made (especially for the given price) libraries (GPO, JABB, etc), and the extremely professional high end products (Strad, GOS, Steinway, etc).

You will need to realise that, despite moves being made towards the opposite direction, it remains that Notation software is not made for creating ultimate renderings! Yes, there is a market for people using finale (I use finale, you know that), who would like to make very good renderings, but it still remains that you can't have everything!

Incidently what Andrew K. mentions about LASS and the 2 computer setup is an overkill, since I own LASS myself. You do need 2 computers if you want to use all layers, all different divisi, solo instruments, etc, but otherwise you're very much fine on 1 computer. As for the divisi, you are a classical composer and you can imagine how useful it is. Finally the "Hollywood" sound in LASS is non existant if you don't want to!

I do wish GOS2 would come out. With the technology of the Strad and Gofr it WOULD be a winner (then again it would also be rather big, exactly like the Steinway is (pro edition)).

swinkler

01-04-2010, 05:40 PM

If I may summarize what Michel is saying I think it would be simply that he wants more string section articulations and techniques that he can use in Finale. The reason for bringing up GOS2 at all is that this seems to be the only product that will offer things like recorded harmonics, col legno and the like.

I'm holding out hope that Gary will offer different levels like the Steinway but that even the lowest level will include many of the articulations/techniques missing from GPO.

Steve Winkler

qccowboy

01-04-2010, 08:46 PM

Nico, I think you're misunderstanding a lot of what is in my posts.

LFO

01-04-2010, 10:05 PM

I don't use GPO for "sketching", I am not a student, nor a "hobbyist". I am a professional composer who requires the use of a decent-sounding library to create demos for performers who will later be playing my music.

I know that. I was one of the people who supported you when you needed to travel to hear one of your works played by a live orchestra. What I said was that GPO was intended for sketching / students / hobbyists and that is exactly what it was made for.

[QUOTE=qccowboy;640888]Unlike the people who create music for games, videos and movies, I am not attempting to create the final product from my GPO rendering. Therefore, I have no need for the hyper-realism of LASS and other like-minded libraries.
However, working as a composer, and requiring demos for my "clients", it would be nice to have access to reasonably usable (ie: from within my Notation program, for example) and reasonably priced (like most Garritan libraries have been thus far) orchestral strings.

I have already purchased Xsamples. They work wonderfully from within Finale 2010, and sound incredibly realistic. The price was also quite affordable, although a tiny bit more expensive than most of the Garritan products thus far.

Now, I would like the same thing from a string SECTION perspective... So far, the other products I have examined are either outrageously priced, or have ridiculous system requirements. Add to that, they are almost unanimously unusable from within a notation package like Finale.

I want and need a product that does not require an investment in new hardware (additional memory - which would also require a change in operating systems, or new processors), and which will function exactly as the Garritan products until now have been doing: from within Notation package, utilizing what is "written on the page" to create the music.

I was hoping that Garritan would be offering us just this product. At this point, I am afraid that the next Garritan library will be another of those unusable behemoths like LASS.

Maybe this is where I am lost. I would imagine that Xsample does provide much of what you are looking for. You have probably the best integration with Finale that you will find and a large selection of articulations. Con Sordino, harmonics, con legno, vibrato control, etc. What is it that you are not getting from Xsample that you would want from Garritan?

Given the two libraries that you own, it should be easy to build string sections of your own. Have you tried layering GPO and Xsample? Or just stacking XSample instruments? How about throwing in some Kirk Hunter strings? You can purchase just strings from him.

Perhaps there are be too many complications introduced by using Finale and how each lib interacts with it, I don't know. if there are issues, perhaps it would be worth your time, since this is your source of income, to come up with your own maps (or whatever they would be called) for Finale. If it is not an issue, you certainly have the right pieces to create some nice sounding sections. Have you tried taking the violin from XSample and loading it multiple times? By modifying the EQ on one from the other and perhaps detuning one or the other you can get quite a nice sound.

If GOS2 does become available in sections or in tiered versions you would be able to add them to your arsenal. Until then you have some good options to work with.

-Kevin

LFO

01-04-2010, 10:10 PM

I completely understand Michel's concerns and frustrations. I also understand the other side that wants to get the development and timing just right to maximize sales, etc.

What would be awesome is to be able to download particular articulations that are missing from GPO that one might like to have. That way the cost would stay down AND you could maintain the lightness of GPO by just adding a few samples/articulations missing from GPO.

Does anyone think this is possible or in the works?

Steve Winkler

Steve, from what I've seen made available in the market an acceptable model has not been found. Articulations require not only a huge amount of additional recording, but a great deal of programming also. How do you price by articulation that makes business sense and will be acceptable to the public? I think this is why most companies sell by the section (Vienna Ensemble, Kirk Hunter, XSample, etc.).

Also, from what I have seen across the forums is that an articulation based pricing structure is not wanted. Professionals want sections with full articulations, amateurs do not, due to price. I'm not sure there is enough demand to merit implementing an articulation based model. Of course, Gary would know better than the likes of me and if something like that does come to market we'll all know he disagrees!

-Kevin

swinkler

01-05-2010, 06:46 AM

I guess all I'm saying in terms of string section techniques is that GPO is 85% there. One could offer a scaled down version of GOS with the "missing" articulations from GPO, thereby completing the arsenal of articulations and techniques a composer might want to employ to render demos for clients. That's all I'm saying. I think it would be very difficult both price-wise and technologically to download samples in a single fashion so I agree that you'd have to offer a section of strings or a section of brass, etc. It could be that an "upgrade" to GPO could be made available for a certain price where you get the remaining string articulations.

I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree with you. It's a tough business and I think Gary's been very fair and have no doubt he will continue to do so. I think part of the angst of the thread is simply that he has customers who are anxious to get their hands on something soon.

Steve

qccowboy

01-05-2010, 07:34 AM

Maybe this is where I am lost. I would imagine that Xsample does provide much of what you are looking for. You have probably the best integration with Finale that you will find and a large selection of articulations. Con Sordino, harmonics, con legno, vibrato control, etc. What is it that you are not getting from Xsample that you would want from Garritan?

Given the two libraries that you own, it should be easy to build string sections of your own. Have you tried layering GPO and Xsample? Or just stacking XSample instruments? How about throwing in some Kirk Hunter strings? You can purchase just strings from him.

Xsamples IS wonderful.
Bbut it's only a solo library. it does not contain any sectionals.
I tried "building" a sectional from it, and it is just not satisfying.
Besides, imagine what is involved in creating a FULL string sectional from solos? I have no interest in doing that.
I would like a TRUE string section library.

As for other libraries, I have looked up MANY other possibilities, but they are rarely if ever "functional" from within Finale.
They are made for people who work with sequencers.
I looked at Kirk Hunter... many times, because I keep seeing that name mentioned. And for the life of me, have NO idea if I could get it to work with Finale, because... there's no mention of any of the information I need anywhere on their website. It's all written in "sequencer geek speak".

And THIS is where I don't understand the business model that Garritan is going for with this "new direction".

Surely, the market for "high end" libraries is quite full already?

While that for the thousands upon thousands of people (students as well as professionals) who work from notation software is wide open. Right now, Garritan has the clear advantage there. Both Finale and Sibelius went FAR out of their way to make GPO integration an important part of their packages.

Heck, even Xsamples is a nightmare to install, compared to GPO (or any of the other Garritan libraries), with a half-assed installer that requires that the user manually drag files off the installation disks and into "the folder" without specifying WHICH "the folder" is meant.

That is what is frustrating to people like myself.
We were given a sample (no pun intended) of a great, easy to use library with GPO, with the hopes that one day, there would be some improvements to it.
And now, we find out that yes, there will be a new library, an improvement, but it will more than likely not be as readily usable for us as GPO (and its sister libraries), and will probably have much more important system and memory requirements?

Tony Monaghan

01-05-2010, 08:41 AM

And now, we find out that yes, there will be a new library, an improvement, but it will more than likely not be as readily usable for us as GPO (and its sister libraries), and will probably have much more important system and memory requirements?

Where do you get this information from?

qccowboy

01-05-2010, 08:46 AM

Where do you get this information from?

check the 1st response (from a moderator) to my initial post in this thread.

First, the hardware requirements for GOS2 will be significantly more than GPO. Gary will always try to keep system requirements down and he and Tom find ingenious ways to do so. However, the bar has been raised significantly since GOS came out and to be competitive GOS2 will require more horsepower to not only compete but to beat the competition. As I see the Aria player today, it will be useful for GPO and similar libraries like JABB, however GOS2 is going to incorporate Giga tech and then improve on it (why else would Gary purchase the technology?) and it will require horsepower and scripting that Aria, at least in its current incarnation, does not begin to approach. Maybe there will be an Aria Pro? Maybe a completely separate engine? I've no idea. It will be interesting to see what he has brewing!

So what hardware requirements would I guess for GOS2? At least a quad core with 8 gig of RAM. This is a qualified estimate based on what I see across another dozen products out today, so I think it is fair. Anyone in this world (meaning libraries of this size and not the GPOs of the world) would be foolish to purchase anything less these days. Articulations require CPU!

as for other information, well, within this very thread, as well as on other forums where people have been speaking a great deal about the future of Garritan products.

if this is "misinformation", then now would be a good time to put it to rest.

Tony Monaghan

01-05-2010, 08:53 AM

check the 1st response (from a moderator) to my initial post in this thread.

as for other information, well, within this very thread, as well as on other forums where people have been speaking a great deal about the future of Garritan products.

if this is "misinformation", then now would be a good time to put it to rest.

The ONLY person qualified to speak about future Garritan libraries is Gary. Anything else posted here by anybody else is pure speculation and you should remember that.

Moderator status on a forum does NOT mean having any privileged information.

qccowboy

01-05-2010, 09:10 AM

Well then, a lot of people offered their insight into my initial post without knowing anything, then.

My initial comments/questions remain the same.

Anything after that initial post is pure reaction to what has been posted in this thread.

Gary was quoted as saying that GOS2's release was being delayed because of the imminent or recent release of other large-scale string libraries. I DO remember reading this as well.

My post here is to affirm my belief that if GOS2 is anything like the other Garritan libraries, then do NOT delay its release! It would be, in my honest opinion, pointless. If GOS2 is anything like GPO, CoMB, and JaBB, then it has a COMPLETELY different clientelle from those "other libraries" being released.

I've always thought of Garritan products as being "for the common man" rather than the high-end power-user. Not that high-end power-users can't appreciate and use them as well, but so far, the Garritan products have all been VERY accessible to people like myself, giving us the chance to produce more-than-fair quality demos.

I know for a fact that the eventual promise of GOS2 has been dangling in front of most Finale forum users like a juicy carrot before a starved bunny. My understanding of it is that the Finale community seems extremely satisfied with Garritan's products and its integration into Finale.

I can only presume the same is true of Sibelius' user base.

Therefore, I reiterate: sooner rather than later.
Please.

Tony Monaghan

01-05-2010, 09:16 AM

Well then, a lot of people offered their insight into my initial post without knowing anything, then.

Exactly.

.....

swinkler

01-05-2010, 09:21 AM

LFO

01-05-2010, 10:09 AM

The ONLY person qualified to speak about future Garritan libraries is Gary. Anything else posted here by anybody else is pure speculation and you should remember that.

Moderator status on a forum does NOT mean having any privileged information.

Uh, guys, what part of `I have no idea' written multiple times throughout my posts about the future of Garritan products did not register? I qualified everything I said. The only think I said with any certainty is that GOS2 will require more horsepower than GPO. Fact is, it will. GOS2 will be more complicated and will thus require more horsepower. I qualified how much horsepower by saying that my *guess* was based on other libraries out there.

Of course Gary is the only qualified person out there to speak of the future of Garritan products. I think that must be the reason I say `I've no idea. It will be interesting to see what he has brewing!' and then in my next post `Who knows what Gary will pull out of his hat?'

Bottom line is there is good information in the posts. To dismiss it out of hand is not a smart move. We don't know exactly what GOS2 will require or bring to the plate, but we can certainly can make some very qualified estimates based on current technology. This is exactly what I've done.

Fact: GOS2 will be more expensive than GPO.

Useful Conjecture: It won't be twice as much, ($150 x 2 = $300) it will be at least 3 times as much ($450) and will probably be 5 to 7 times as much ($750 - $1000+). For people who want GOS2 features, this is useful so they can start saving up money now instead of waiting for the release date and being disappointed / angry because they can't afford the software right there and then.

Fact: GOS2 will require more hardware resources than GPO.

Useful Conjecture: Given current sample library industry standards and the price / performance ratio of current hardware, a quad core box with 8 gig of RAM is a valid expectation to run an acceptable number of instruments. Again, plan for it now, start buying components, etc. GOS2 is part of the `big boy' libraries. If you want the features you will need the hardware to run it.

Where things are still unclear is what model Gary will use to release libraries, sections, articulations or whatever he chooses to do. I've stated that I doubt an articulation based model would be a direction Gary would take. It is a valid statement. I also then say that I have no idea what Gary is going to do as he knows the market much better than I do.

So where is this `great deal about the future of Garritan products?' Where is the invalid speculation? You try to be helpful and look at what you get. Blerg.

-Kevin

LFO

01-05-2010, 10:14 AM

Thanks for speaking up Tony and clarifying things for us. I guess the bottom line is we'll have to wait and see.

If anyone is taking suggestions however, I would vote for a paid upgrade to GPO that includes some "extended" techniques for string sections :)

Steve Winkler

Hey Steve,
I would submit that waiting and seeing is the worse thing you can do. As I stated in my post above, there is a range of expectations you can reasonably consider. If you are interested in the additional articulations you know at this point that GOS2 will provide more articulations. (Hopefully all of the articulations you want!) Since the product will be pricier than GPO, you can start saving $$ now. When products are released (and pure speculation I don't think we will see another GPO until after GOS2 is out) if you have a less expensive alternative, like articulation selection, then you have some extra $$ to spend somewhere else! Its a win-win scenario.

Does that make sense?

-Kevin

LFO

01-05-2010, 10:18 AM

Thanks for speaking up Tony and clarifying things for us. I guess the bottom line is we'll have to wait and see.

If anyone is taking suggestions however, I would vote for a paid upgrade to GPO that includes some "extended" techniques for string sections :)

Steve Winkler

One other quick thought. Given the samples Gary has for GPO, he will not be able to add many articulations without recording them. For instance, bartok pizzicato, tremelo, half and full trills, harmonics. I'm not saying that Tom the genius couldn't figure out a way to use the current samples and program them to provide a few of the articulations, but I don't think they would sound very good. There is only so much you can do with programming.

The solution could be that articulations from GOS2 trickle down to GPO. Even better, GPO samples all become a subset of GOS2 samples.

Like I said before, who knows what tricks Gary will pull out of his hat? :)

-Kevin

swinkler

01-05-2010, 10:39 AM

The solution could be that articulations from GOS2 trickle down to GPO. Even better, GPO samples all become a subset of GOS2 samples.

Exactly what I'm thinking. Besides I understood that GPO strings were already derived from samples recorded for GOS (original GOS probably). So to me it wouldn't be a stretch at all to add more techniques to the KS samples in GPO. So if this is the case there's really no technical dependency on GOS2 becoming available to have some of these techniques available in GPO. There probably is however a strategic/business dependency however which I won't discount.

And of course to one of your earlier points you can't increase the size of a sample without having some impact on memory footprint and perhaps processing power, but what that might be I have no idea.

I would submit that waiting and seeing is the worse thing you can do. As I stated in my post above, there is a range of expectations you can reasonably consider. If you are interested in the additional articulations you know at this point that GOS2 will provide more articulations. (Hopefully all of the articulations you want!) Since the product will be pricier than GPO, you can start saving $$ now. When products are released (and pure speculation I don't think we will see another GPO until after GOS2 is out) if you have a less expensive alternative, like articulation selection, then you have some extra $$ to spend somewhere else! Its a win-win scenario.

Does that make sense?

Totally.

Haydn

01-05-2010, 03:53 PM

Here are a few things that have already been mentioned by Gary in the past:

GOS2 will use recordings from the original sessions at the Lincoln Center but will use a different mic position than the original release. The original library which GPO samples came from, has the majority of articulations already recorded such as col legno, detache, harmonics, spiccato, etc. GOS was covered pretty much everything. It also had up to 4 velocity layers depending on the articulation. The original library was 16 bit and was around 10 GB in size.

GOS2 will include solo strings like the Strad violin and Gofriller Cello plus more to be able to do a string quartet.

The library will use ARIA. ARIA was designed to be modular so features could be added in the future to make it more powerful.

There is some new technologies being implemented which has slowed down the library release.

Jim