re Finale problems

[garymosse]

Is there a policy to exclude any questions about Finale?
I've posted 2 which never entered.
Gary

[RichR]

Their is a part of Northernsounds forum for notation programs. Not many questions or topics their for Finale that I can see, but it is worth a shot at asking their.

You might also consider the Finale Forum at MakeMusic.com. There are a lot of good people there with lots of ideas. :)

[qccowboy]

but when the questions deal specifically with Finale and GPO, it seems that this WOULD be the ideal place to ask them.

I've noticed that on the MakeMusic forums there are only a very few people who actually answer playback questions dealing with GPO.

[Rhap2]

I agree with Michael. There are a lot more people at this
Forum that use Finale with GPO. Their experiences are
diverse and would probably solve more problem-specific
situations than at other places.

Also, I think we have some of the best Finale users in the
world right here. Listening to a lot of Finale productions, I
am absolutely amazed at the quality output of this notation
program when used by composers who really know the program.

Jack

[RichR]

I was just offering a suggestion. Don't shoot the messenger. :(

I have been unable to find answers for my Finale questions and GPO4 their either, but was just throwing out some options.

I am struggling myself with Finale and all its inner workings, so I would not be the best to answer any questions. I have also noticed a general lack of moderators answering questions in any of their areas of expertise. As a matter of fact I seldom see a lot of the moderators on our site. Maybe the answers need to be gotten from Garritan Support? Again tis only a suggestion...~|

[garymosse]

Thanks for posting, Guys.
My problem is deciding whether or not that I have a specific (mac)
Finale virus. It acts like one.
When is a virus in Finale some element other than the programming?

Gary

[Jeff Turner]

Gary,

Can you be a little more specific about your problem? Macs in general aren't as susceptible to viruses. And a virus would probably affect more than just Finale.

Are you perhaps referring to a bug that you're experiencing in Finale?

Jeff

[reberclark]

I think this is a fine place to ask about Finale, since GPO and ARIA are integrated I think issues with both are appropriate. Plus, this board is full of knowledgable people with long experience.

That said, I have had a recent intermittent Finale problem that Finale Techs had not had much experience with and couldn't really solve (as yet).

http://home.comcast.net/~reberclark/finale example.jpg

This just appeared one day out of the blue. If I reload the MIDI driver (sometimes twice) it goes away and may not happen for a day or so - then it's back. My MIDI drivers are up to date.

Any ideas?

[Michael_uk]

Is there a policy to exclude any questions about Finale?
I've posted 2 which never entered.
Gary
I am a Finale user and I don't think there is any policy to exclude questions about Finale. There have been many, many questions in our forums over the years regarding Finale. I think it is true to say that the vast majority of questions have been GPO/Finale linked rather than specifically Finale alone.


..... I have been unable to find answers for my Finale questions and GPO4 their either, but was just throwing out some options.

I am struggling myself with Finale and all its inner workings, so I would not be the best to answer any questions. I have also noticed a general lack of moderators answering questions in any of their areas of expertise. As a matter of fact I seldom see a lot of the moderators on our site. Maybe the answers need to be gotten from Garritan Support? Again tis only a suggestion...~|
Hello Rich,

I haven't seen any of your Finale/GPO4 questions? Have you posted them in our forums? I don't go to the Make Music site very often and if I do see a Finale post in these forums I will try to answer if I can.

What questions do you have and I'll try to help out? :)


Thanks for posting, Guys.
My problem is deciding whether or not that I have a specific (mac)
Finale virus. It acts like one.
When is a virus in Finale some element other than the programming?

Gary

Hello Gary. I use Wiindows so I'm afraid I can't be of much help for Mac users. Bit of a shocker the Finale Tech people can't help. Hope you find an answer somehow.

[Tony Monaghan]

Sorry I can't help. I'm a moderator but my area of expertise is UNIX and banjo playing, both kinda socially unacceptable I know.

I know a bit about ARIA and can help get it working though ;)

[RichR]

I haven't seen any of your Finale/GPO4 questions? Have you posted them in our forums? I don't go to the Make Music site very often and if I do see a Finale post in these forums I will try to answer if I can.


Well, you haven't seen the questions because I have not posted them. I usually read as many posts here and at MakeMusic to make sure the problems and questions may already have a solution. Many times I find the answers without having to actually ask the questions myself.

Recently, though, I have struggled with getting Keyswitches to work with GPO4 and Finale. For example, a string quartet (using GPO4 notation soloists with the KS designation) does not do any different bowing instructions in finale. I.E. down bow, up bow, alternating bows or tremolo (you name it) will not happen in playback. I look at the ARIA player and I don't even see the Keyswitches at the bottom of the keyboard. In KP2 the keyswitches were shown in yellowish brown colors or red (don't remember). Everything gets played sustained notes.

The question has gotten some discussion at the Finale Forum but no solution other than string section Keyswitches work but not the solo instruments.

Any suggestions?

[garymosse]

My FInale 2010 problems:
occasionally; a note (8th) is entered but multiple 8th's repeat over several measures.
Working on a page & a blank measure is inserted

Why has the new feature gone 10 years backwards where you have to renew the screen to be able to see the page. I last encountered that in 1997 or so...
I once could copy individual notes in a measure and send to another measure. Now the whole measure has to be copied.
When I'm moving fast & click to copy a section only a sliver of the measure colors.
And so on...
Gary

[Michael_uk]

..... Recently, though, I have struggled with getting Keyswitches to work with GPO4 and Finale. For example, a string quartet (using GPO4 notation soloists with the KS designation) does not do any different bowing instructions in finale. I.E. down bow, up bow, alternating bows or tremolo (you name it) will not happen in playback. I look at the ARIA player and I don't even see the Keyswitches at the bottom of the keyboard. In KP2 the keyswitches were shown in yellowish brown colors or red (don't remember). Everything gets played sustained notes.

The question has gotten some discussion at the Finale Forum but no solution other than string section Keyswitches work but not the solo instruments.

Any suggestions?Hello Rich,

I just went to the GPO4 Manual and the info is there. See Page 55 Section 9. Keyswitch Identification; the 'Note' section in the middle.

Finale keyswitching is in the very bottom octave which is out of the range of the virtual keyboard shown in the Aria window. Just left click in the area where the name of the keyswitch is shown and a list will open showing all the available keyswitches. From this list you can select the switch you need.

I've tried them and they just about all work. The only thing I've found so far is that the tremolo switch doesn't function with the solo strings. This is already a fault known to Plogue and David has acknowledged that this will be mended in an update. I know this isn't of any help to those who need this now. However, the keyswitches are there and, with the exception mentioned, all the ones I have tried so far work perfectly.

The following screenshot shows how it works.

http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/addons/finale_keyswitches_80.png

[Michael_uk]

My FInale 2010 problems:
occasionally; a note (8th) is entered but multiple 8th's repeat over several measures.
Working on a page & a blank measure is inserted

Why has the new feature gone 10 years backwards where you have to renew the screen to be able to see the page. I last encountered that in 1997 or so...

Hello Gary,

I don't find any of the above problems in my Windows version here and I don't recall reading of these issues before. I couldn't say if these problems are just with the Mac version or not.

This is of absolutely no help to you at all I know. It sounds that these could be a system problem/conflict rather than a Finale malfunction. Hopefully a few other Mac users will call by to confirm whether or not this is happening with them too. Apart from that, the only suggestion I have is to try a complete uninstall, clean out thoroughly then reinstall.


My FInale 2010 problems:

I once could copy individual notes in a measure and send to another measure. Now the whole measure has to be copied.
When I'm moving fast & click to copy a section only a sliver of the measure colors.
And so on...
Gary

Again, speaking as a Windows user, and if I have understood you correctly, we are talking about selection of notes and measures. If the following is what you need then more information is in the Finale on-line manual. I would have thought it would be the same for the Mac version.

Selecting a whole measure: Just click in a blank part of the measure.
Selecting an individual note: just click the note head.
Selecting part of a measure: At the starting point, click outside the measure and drag to enclose the wanted notes.
Selecting multiple measures: As above and drag/enclose the required measures OR select the first measure, scroll to the last measure then shift-click.

I realise that I may have misunderstood and that you already knew the above but here's hoping it has been of some help.

[RichR]

Michael_uk said:

However, the keyswitches are there and, with the exception mentioned, all the ones I have tried so far work perfectly.


Yes, they are there as you showed and yes you can click on them and they work in the player. But, the don't work in Finale if you put in a mark for Up bow or Down Bow. Whatever mark I place in a Finale score, I get sustained playing only. I guess I will have to curl up with the manual for Finale (oops, can't do that, it's only online [guess I need the new iPad]) and anyway read the manual. I think HP and keyswitches don't work together. Either you can use Keyswitches or have HP. I see something about that when I skim read through the manual on the KS topic.

If I figure it out this weekend, I will certainly let everyone know what my solution is. Until then...

[swinkler]

Rich,

I'm running Finale 2009 but I've had to edit my HP definitions to include the string Aria where the definition says "Library contains the name:".

Check out this thread on the MakeMusic Forum (http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=5&p=1&m=272414). It deals with key switches in brass instruments, but the same principal applies for strings and solo strings in particular. I don't know why this fix works for me and other users report they don't have to tweak HP settings at all and everything works as expected.

Now solo string tremolo doesn't work for me no matter what I do. For the solo strings tremolo is triggered rather than sampled and playback is only correct when a series of note on/off messages occurs. For me the right keyswitch is activated when I use the tremolo articulation, but the playback is not correct.

steve winkler

[Jeff Turner]

My FInale 2010 problems:
occasionally; a note (8th) is entered but multiple 8th's repeat over several measures.
Working on a page & a blank measure is inserted

Why has the new feature gone 10 years backwards where you have to renew the screen to be able to see the page. I last encountered that in 1997 or so...
I once could copy individual notes in a measure and send to another measure. Now the whole measure has to be copied.
When I'm moving fast & click to copy a section only a sliver of the measure colors.
And so on...
Gary
I use a Mac and have not had any of the problems you mention. A repeated 8th note being entered sounds like a number 4 key that is sticking. Try rebooting the next time this happens.

I don't know what you mean when you say that there's a new feature that has gone 10 years backwards with regards to a screen redraw.

Partial measure selection is now active all the time. So if you highlight just a portion of a measure, only that portion will be active for copying & pasting.

As far a copying and pasting, that feature overwent a major overhaul with Finale 2008 I believe. There's different ways to copy using the filter or not, selecting whole or partial measures is different from earlier versions and some copying procedures require a combination of keystrokes while others can be copied by dragging.

From the Finale manual:

After selecting a region of music, use one of the following methods to copy and paste or copy and insert.


Copying and pasting using the clipboard. This method allows you to easily copy/cut and paste to target regions outside of the visible area, or paste the same material multiple times. See To copy and paste using the clipboard (file:///Applications/Finale%202008%20FS2/Help%20Files/Content/Finale/Copying_music.htm#To_copy_and_paste_using_the_clip board).
Copying and pasting by dragging. This method allows you to quickly copy and paste to target regions within the visible area, and also allows you to copy and paste to target regions outside of the visible area. See To copy and paste by dragging (file:///Applications/Finale%202008%20FS2/Help%20Files/Content/Finale/Copying_music.htm#To_copy_and_paste_by_dragging).
Copying and pasting stacks. This method allows you to copy and paste any number of items in the Edit Filter dialog box including measure items like key signatures, barline styles, and measure widths. See To copy and paste stacks (file:///Applications/Finale%202008%20FS2/Help%20Files/Content/Finale/Copying_music.htm#To_copy_and_paste_stacks).
Copying and inserting using the clipboard. This method allows you to easily copy/cut and insert to target regions outside of the visible area, or insert the same material multiple times. See To copy and insert using the clipboard (file:///Applications/Finale%202008%20FS2/Help%20Files/Content/Finale/Copying_music.htm#To_copy_and_paste_using_the_clip board).
Copying and inserting by dragging. This method allows you to quickly copy and insert to target regions within the visible area. See To copy and insert by dragging (file:///Applications/Finale%202008%20FS2/Help%20Files/Content/Finale/Copying_music.htm#To_copy_and_paste_by_dragging).
Copying and inserting stacks. This method allows you to insert full measures, all staves, including any number of items in the Edit Filter dialog box. See To copy and insert stacks (file:///Applications/Finale%202008%20FS2/Help%20Files/Content/Finale/Copying_music.htm#To_copy_and_insert_stacks).

Spend a few minutes reviewing these topics. They're alll listed under "Copying Music". It should help.

[RichR]

Steve,

Thanks for the explanation and the ideas on HP and including the name ARIA. I had read that and done it, but still do not get the keyswitches to happen. I look at the ARIA engine as the piece is playing and do not see any keyswitches changing nor hear any of them. I have to assume one has to program all that on specific articulation markings for ARIA to recognize. There must be specific Garritan commands in the articulation markings as opposed to standard markings.

This makes no sense to me as the switches should happen for all possible keyswitches available on a product MakeMusic incorporates into their playback setup. I don't want to re-invent the wheel (so to speak) every time I write a piece of music and use Garritan ARIA engine as the playback, especially with the high cost of the program. I would much prefer to compose and hear if the ideas I have will sound right or work. Having to stop the creative momentum to worry about the playback sound is not a good thing.

I have the same kind of problem with the percussion parts and using specific Garritan percussion samples. Finale only lists the mapping for Basic Orchestra Percussion and not the individual instruments like snare, bass drum or cymbals and I end up having to use a 5 line staff and search for the proper percussion sound. Eventually with all the searching and manipulation, I cause my computer to crash out of Finale entirely loosing all I had been doing. I know, back up, back up, back up but backing up every other measure is a whole lot of tedium (too much so in my book). Ten minutes between saves should be good enough.

[swinkler]

Wow Rich,

That's really unfortunate. It almost sounds like HP isn't even on for you. Have you opened a case with MakeMusic. It really sounds like a Finale problem and not an Aria/Garriatn problem to me.

Steve

[Jeff Turner]

I have the same kind of problem with the percussion parts and using specific Garritan percussion samples. Finale only lists the mapping for Basic Orchestra Percussion and not the individual instruments like snare, bass drum or cymbals and I end up having to use a 5 line staff and search for the proper percussion sound. Eventually with all the searching and manipulation, I cause my computer to crash out of Finale entirely loosing all I had been doing. I know, back up, back up, back up but backing up every other measure is a whole lot of tedium (too much so in my book). Ten minutes between saves should be good enough.
Rich,

Which version of Finale are you using? 2010 completely overhauled the percussion. If you use the setup wizard to create a file using GPO 4, the percussion staff gets setup automatically. You can go into the staff attributes for that staff and edit the percussion map to place the pitches wherever you want them to appear on the staff. You don't have to worry about assigning midi pitches to the perc. sounds, that's done automatically.
Then when you enter the notes in Finale using Speedy or Simple, when you move the cursor up or down before you enter a note, the actual instrument name appears, so it tells you what drum play the notes that you put down.

If you're able to post a finale file that demonstrates your problem, I'm sure we could figure out what is happening with your keyswitches.

JT

[RichR]

I haven't opened a case file with MakeMusic yet as I was hoping it was something stupid that I was doing or NOT doing. I usually read posts in all relevant forums and read the manual (which I find extremely hard with online manuals [I prefer hard copy and pictures :)]).

Thanks for the help. Looks like I need to contact MakeMusic.

[Michael_uk]

Michael_uk said:

Yes, they are there as you showed and yes you can click on them and they work in the player. But, the don't work in Finale if you put in a mark for Up bow or Down Bow. Whatever mark I place in a Finale score, I get sustained playing only.
Hello again Rich,

First, just to clarify, we are both using Finale 2010, is this correct?

Using Finale 2010 I've prepared two very basic four-bar test scores for you to try. Please download and open them in your Finale (if you are using 2010) and they should work perfectly.

Each of the following examples has two staves: Solo Violin KS and Section Violins 1 KS. Each score has four bars; two bars of pizzicato in Solo Violin and two bars of whole-step trills in Section Violins.

Key Switched Test A.mus (http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/addons/Key%20Switched%20Test%20A.mus) - This uses keyswitching for pizicato and trills with 'Human Playback' turned off.

Key Switched Test B.mus (http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/addons/Key%20Switched%20Test%20B.mus) - This uses 'Human Playback' with pizzicato and trill markings.


..... I think HP and keyswitches don't work together. Either you can use Keyswitches or have HP.

Absolutely .. use either keyswitching in the Aria Player or 'Human Playback'. In fact, Human Playback, when turned on, overides key-switching in Aria. Therefore, please make sure HP is turned off before trying keyswitching in Aria. I realise that you may already have tried all this. :)

Anyway, please try the two short examples I've given, I'm confident they will both work properly. Please let us know.

[RichR]

Michael,

Thanks for the info and advice along with the tests. I do indeed have Finale 2010. I will put your test scores into Finale and see what happens.

I also had forgotten and you so nicely reminded me that you HAVE to turn off HP for the switches to work. I guess the next question should be, why can't you get them both to work together? Hmmm... I like the subtle shift of notes so they are not quantized exactly to the beat that HP gives you. Can and should one copy HP to midi playback (under "Tools" menu, I think) and then turn off HP to get those subtleties and ARIA keyswitches? I'll have to try that!

Thanks again,

[RichR]

Michael,

I checked out your tests and they do work just fine as you stated. But, try putting a pizz at the beginning and then switched to arco and trills on the same staff. That does not work. I know what I would do in a sequencer and that is to have multiple tracks with each articulation on separate tracks. However, in a score that would be a lot of work and the end product would not be what you would want to show to a perspective performing group. You should be able to mix articulations on the same staff, no?

I really do appreciated your time and wisdom, Thanks!!!!

[Michael_uk]

Michael,

I checked out your tests and they do work just fine as you stated. But, try putting a pizz at the beginning and then switched to arco and trills on the same staff. That does not work. I know what I would do in a sequencer and that is to have multiple tracks with each articulation on separate tracks. However, in a score that would be a lot of work and the end product would not be what you would want to show to a perspective performing group. You should be able to mix articulations on the same staff, no?

I really do appreciated your time and wisdom, Thanks!!!!
Hello Rich,

Glad they worked there for you so we are making some progress.

You can put different articulations on the same staff .. hee hee :D.

With keyswitches this would mean using layers which can be fiddly and means using rests in different layers. This method involves assigning each layer to a different channel. As far as I know, and without further investigating, with this you could only use up to 4 different articulations per stave (track). Of course, using Human Playback you could have as many as you want.

Personally, I would far prefer to use HP with articulations so I get as many as I want as often as I want on one stave with the added benefit of all the other performance nuances that HP offers. Obviously, we wouldn't get these added performance nuances using keyswitches.

I have provided two more samples showing different articulations on one track using both keyswitches and HP.

One Stave Multiple Effects HP.mus (http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/addons/One%20Stave%20Multiple%20Effects%20HP.mus) This shows Human Playback with multiple Articulations Markings on one stave for each of Solo and Section Violin.

One Stave Multiple Effects KS.mus (http://www.michaelsroom.co.uk/addons/One%20Stave%20Multiple%20Effects%20KS.mus) This shows Keyswitching (HP turned off) with multiple Articulations Markings on one stave for Section Violin. This uses Finale layers by assigning each layer to a different channel.

NB As mentioned before there are problems with keyswitching on solo strings. This is why, in the KS sample above, I have used Section Violin only.

Please try these and let me know what you think. :)