Dan Dean Solo Brass

[Adrian H]

Just listened to the demo of the DD Solo Brass and I have to say that as a pro trumpet player, they are without doubt the best sounding samples I\'ve heard.

I\'d like to hear some more demos of them, maybe a fanfare, something with a bit more bite and volume, but the demo that is up there sounds very good.

Nick and Thomas_J - you\'ve been beaten to it, so you can give up arguing know!

When I\'ve got the cash together, I\'ll be purchasing the set.

One other thing Dan, have you thought about converting your giasamples to run in Halion?

Having played around with it, I think it would be useful to run both Gigastudio and Halion and at the same, and would love to be able to process some of your sounds with VST effects without having to first turn the midi file into Audio.

Anyway, keep up the good work with the samples.

Cheers
Adrian

[Simon Ravn]

The demo is decent, but I have reservations - even about the trumpet. If the only sustained articulations of solo trumpet in the library are (like the flute in Dan Dean) non-vib and vibrato like the one heard in the demo, I don\'t like it. Vibrato should not be so static, it sounds really unnatural in most cases....

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adrian H:
Just listened to the demo of the DD Solo Brass and I have to say that as a pro trumpet player, they are without doubt the best sounding samples I\'ve heard.

I\'d like to hear some more demos of them, maybe a fanfare, something with a bit more bite and volume, but the demo that is up there sounds very good.

Nick and Thomas_J - you\'ve been beaten to it, so you can give up arguing know!

When I\'ve got the cash together, I\'ll be purchasing the set.

One other thing Dan, have you thought about converting your giasamples to run in Halion?

Having played around with it, I think it would be useful to run both Gigastudio and Halion and at the same, and would love to be able to process some of your sounds with VST effects without having to first turn the midi file into Audio.

Anyway, keep up the good work with the samples.

Cheers
Adrian<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Adrian,

I\'ve been working like a dog laterly on all of this stuff, and there will be more mp3\'s that illustrate the wide dynamic range of the Solo Brass. Thanks for your comments!

DD

[Adrian H]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IOComposer:
The only thing that I don\'t care for is the vibrato in the trumpet. It sounds very synthetic. However, if there is a non vibrato version that would be great.
-J<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally I like the vibrato. When playing quiet notes like in the excerpt of Dvorak 9th that DD programmed, most classical players would use a vibrato like that to colour the note and stop it sounding dull.
Admittedly that vibrato would sound wrong when playing louder, brighter passages, but if the player who was sampled is a classical player then he would most likely have played with a vibrato corresponding to the volume, attack and nature of each type of note he recorded.

I do hope that this is the case, and that there are some versions without vib as well of course. But I think if you want a sound with vibrato, then you are better using one that was recorded with vibrato rather than adding vib with midi as that to a trained ear does sound synthetic.

Thes are just my thoughts, but I hope DD gets up some new demos of it soon, so we can see how the brass sounds in a different style.

Cheers
Adrian

------------------
Chetham\'s School of Music exists to educate exceptionally gifted young musicians.

[Jamieh]

I agree that having a vibrato patch available is a definite plus. As long as there is a non-vibrato patch for those really loud parts, I will be happy.

I am really impressed by the attack and tone quality of the trumpet. Top notch. The vibrato doesn\'t sound totally natural to me, but I am listening on crappy speakers.

It will be interesting to hear how the trumpet does with faster passages.

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
I agree that having a vibrato patch available is a definite plus. As long as there is a non-vibrato patch for those really loud parts, I will be happy.

I am really impressed by the attack and tone quality of the trumpet. Top notch. The vibrato doesn\'t sound totally natural to me, but I am listening on crappy speakers.

It will be interesting to hear how the trumpet does with faster passages.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There are separate Trumpet NV and V disks. The NV is really bright, whereas the Trumpet V was created more for solo purposes.

The Trumpet was done by Allen Vizzutti, who IS world class, although the liner notes say Michael Bonessa at his request. The vibrato is his natural vibrato.

Thanks,
DD

[Jamieh]

Well damn Dan, if that is his natural vibrato then I take back my comment about it being \"unnatural\". I\'ll have to listen to the demo on something other than these tin cans I have at work. I think it will be great to have a vibrato version for solo work, as I use your vibrato solo cello CONSTANTLY because it sounds so much like a real player using real expression.

The tone of the trumpet is awesome. It sounds really really good. I\'m excited to hear the bright NV version as well.

Any hints as to when this will be available? I have a project I\'m working on now that could use this library, at least the trumpet for sure. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[IOComposer]

Allen Vizzutti!!!?
Wow. How did you get him to let you sample him? I used to listen to his albums all of the time. I wanted to be just like him when I was studying trumpet as he\'s well known for being one of the fastest and acurate trumpet players in the world (next to Wynton, that is http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
-J

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IOComposer:
Allen Vizzutti!!!?
Wow. How did you get him to let you sample him? I used to listen to his albums all of the time. I wanted to be just like him when I was studying trumpet as he\'s well known for being one of the fastest and acurate trumpet players in the world (next to Wynton, that is http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
-J<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I play in his band, and he\'s my neighbor...but we\'re referring to Michael Bonessa, aren\'t we? Wait until you hear some of the high notes. They start perfect and continue perfect the entire note length. Some were 35 seconds long! I had to trim them to get the Trumpet on 1 disk. \"Michael\" is one of the fastest Trumpet players I have ever heard and I played with a lot of them in L.A. and elsewhere. The \"ensemble\" presets are great.

DD

[IOComposer]

That\'s awesome, Dan.
No wonder the vibrato sounds artificial...that guy\'s a machine!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
-J

[astrt4]

No Joke!

I was stunned when I saw the name. I\'d actually put him above Wynton in many ways.

[PatS]

Great demo, Dan. Good choice of music, too. I love the opening to that Largo.

If you\'ll forgive me for asking, I couldn\'t hear the clarinets (in A) or the bassoons through my low-end computer speakers at work; did you omit them? Granted, they\'re just doubling the trombones and tuba, so I shouldn\'t be surprised if they don\'t stand out; they tend not to anyway for this passage. Just curious!

Have you considered for another demo the opening Promenade to Mussorgsky\'s Pictures (Ravel\'s orchestration)? How about Picture #8, \"Catacombs: Roman Sepulchre\" (same slow-moving harmonic rhythm as in the Dvorak 9th but with \"sweeter\" dissonances and more opportunity to show off the dynamic range of your instruments)?

Pat

[This message has been edited by PatS (edited 08-17-2001).]

[Marc Floessel]

I don\'t think the demo sounds bad at all (except for the final forte notes), but with this excerpt chosen, it does hide under ambiguity.

I would like to hear some clear and loud (or soft and expressive) statements from the individual instruments in the next MP3s.

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PatS:
Great demo, Dan. Good choice of music, too. I love the opening to that Largo.

If you\'ll forgive me for asking, I couldn\'t hear the clarinets (in A) or the bassoons through my low-end computer speakers at work; did you omit them? Granted, they\'re just doubling the trombones and tuba, so I shouldn\'t be surprised if they don\'t stand out; they tend not to anyway for this passage. Just curious!

Have you considered for another demo the opening Promenade to Mussorgsky\'s Pictures (Ravel\'s orchestration)? How about Picture #8, \"Catacombs: Roman Sepulchre\" (same slow-moving harmonic rhythm as in the Dvorak 9th but with \"sweeter\" dissonances and more opportunity to show off the dynamic range of your instruments)?

Pat

[This message has been edited by PatS (edited 08-17-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, this was sent to me by Mike Warning, a Composer/Trombonist/Programmer from Toronto. I really liked it, and included it on the website. Thanks again, Mike.

More Later,
DD

[IOComposer]

I think it sounds quite good! The only thing that I don\'t care for is the vibrato in the trumpet. It sounds very synthetic. However, if there is a non vibrato version that would be great. I like the fact that he\'s sellng the individual instruments as I don\'t need the whole set. One thing I can\'t quite tell is whether it is a close miked recording with added reverb or if it\'s natural ambience that we\'re hearing. I suppose if I can\'t tell, then it doesn\'t really matter http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
-J

[Adrian H]

Allen \'Michael Bonnesa\' Vizzuti.

Now I am truely impressed.
Who next?

Christian Lindberg - Trombone
Roger Bobo - Tuba
Dennis Brain (even though he died years back) - French Horn!

Nice work Dan!



------------------
Chetham\'s School of Music exists to educate exceptionally gifted young musicians.

[Jamieh]

Ok Dan, I am listening on my good speakers at home, and I am really impressed. Please release this library soon so I can buy it. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I think the reason I thought the vibrato was fake was because it is so tight and consistent. It sounds processed only because it is so consistent throughout the sample. That is some pretty tight playing!

Can\'t wait to hear the high notes and some faster playing. I can really hear the instrument singing in your demo. This is exciting!

[Thomas_J]

Funny how people change their opinions from just a name http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Dan Dean, lovely samples and a good demo, (even though it was a little too short to give any insight on the samples we can expect). I\'m not going to compete with you, or have my student friends compete with a world class player so I\'ll just congratulate you on a fine job! Fine indeed. Give me a few more demos and I\'m sold http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Thomas

[Memnon]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adrian H:
Allen \'Michael Bonnesa\' Vizzuti.

Now I am truely impressed.
Who next?

Christian Lindberg - Trombone
Roger Bobo - Tuba
Dennis Brain (even though he died years back) - French Horn!

If I had my choice of trombonists, and was looking for a \'solo\' player, to play all the great concerti that us trombonists have \'borrowed\' from other instruments over the years (due to lack of repitoire!!) it would be: Alain Trudel. Hands down.

I have a dozen or so Lindberg cd\'s and have taken masterclasses with him. Everyone, like myself, praises him for his technical ability (ie. flexibility etc), but his tone is something I can\'t warm up to. Trudel has this gorgoues, fat, round sound that a lot of young canadian trombonists grew up trying to imitate. Anyone interested should pick up a Disc called \"Recital\". It features a lot of repitoire for the trombone as well as many transcriptions. Guy Few, a trumpet player and pianst is also featured on the album.

Take Care,

Mike Warning

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Memnon]

The Dvorak demo:

When I first recieved Dan\'s Brass, I wanted to try a few pieces that I\'ve always enjoyed, but was never able to re-create in the \'synth\' world. Being a trombonist myself, I was quickly drawn to the dynamic range of the instruments. Inspired you might say, I started mocking up passages from Brahms symphonies (No. 2 and No. 4 - I always enjoyed playing these symphonies, because they gave the lower brass section a chance to blend long subtle chords that gave a texture to the piece). The Largo movement from Dvorak\'s 9th is stunning in the same way. I did that mock-up in literally 5 minutes and did not do one bit of programming. I played the parts in one by one and recorded it to mp3. I did omit the clarinet and bassoon parts because I wanted to show the texture of the brass themselves. I will upload a version when I return from vacation on the weekend with all the parts, with a little more time and effort put into it.

Those pieces showcase the quiet layers, so next I decided to try something big. Bruckner\'s 4th symphony. Still working on making the strings sound as big as I want them, but I\'ll post my results asap. I have to say, that these brass sound like the Chicago symphony on steroids.

Next on my list is some John Williams fanfare stuff. He has lots from which to choose.. any requests?

Regards,

Mike Warning

[astrt4]

Yes, I have a request.

Liberty Fanfare

[PatS]

In addition to the John Williams examples, I\'d like to hear Janacek\'s Sinfonietta, specifically the first Allegretto (i.e., 1st movement, even though its ending is somewhat tiresome), and Copland\'s Fanfare for the Common Man. It sounds like you have a great list of pieces already, but if you\'re feeling energetic . . . .

Pat

[Jamieh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Next on my list is some John Williams fanfare stuff. He has lots from which to choose.. any requests?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can do a realistic version of Olympic Fanfare and Theme (Track 1 from the By Request: the Best of John Williams CD) or Liberty Fanfare (Track 8 of the same CD) then you have the ultimate Brass library.

That might be asking too much due to the rapid multiple-toungue attacks. Other pieces that might show off the brass would be the Throne Room Theme from Star Wars, or the main titles to Star Wars, Superman, or Raiders of the Lost Ark. Some of the brass fanfares from ET would be really impressive too.

[ursatz]

If you\'re feeling *extra* ambitious, I think the best brass demo piece would be the opening fanfare from Dukas\' \"La Peri\". It would show off all kinds of articulations - and it would be really hard to do well. If anybody could pull off a halfway realistic version of that piece, I bet it would sell a lot of libraries.

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
If you can do a realistic version of Olympic Fanfare and Theme (Track 1 from the By Request: the Best of John Williams CD) or Liberty Fanfare (Track 8 of the same CD) then you have the ultimate Brass library.

That might be asking too much due to the rapid multiple-toungue attacks. Other pieces that might show off the brass would be the Throne Room Theme from Star Wars, or the main titles to Star Wars, Superman, or Raiders of the Lost Ark. Some of the brass fanfares from ET would be really impressive too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Uhm well all of these pieces use ensembles, so I am not sure how cool it would sound with solo brass... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[Jamieh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Uhm well all of these pieces use ensembles, so I am not sure how cool it would sound with solo brass... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think Dan has included an \"ensemble\" mode in all of his patches. That is what he just released with the solo strings, and I believe he has said the same thing will be available in the solo brass.

However if you want a Williams solo brass passage, there is a great trumpet solo near the beginning of \"Summon the Heros\". JFK has another great trumpet solo.

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
I think Dan has included an \"ensemble\" mode in all of his patches. That is what he just released with the solo strings, and I believe he has said the same thing will be available in the solo brass.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is correct, there are \"ensemble\" patches in the Solo Brass. They work very well and add extra dimension to the library. I\'m up on my website and I will take orders from there.

Thanks again. Mike is working on some new mp3\'s which I hope to have in the next few days. I\'ll post them ASAP.

DD

[Jamieh]

Dan, do you have a rough estimate on when the library will be available? I promise I won\'t hold you to it. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
Dan, do you have a rough estimate on when the library will be available? I promise I won\'t hold you to it. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

It is available now from my site. I\'ll be doing 1-offs for the first few until the production run arrives.

Thanks,
DD

[Jamieh]

Fantastic!

Are you going to be doing one-offs of just the entire set, or if people want individual instruments can you do that too?

I may just wait until I hear demos of your other instruments, but I know I want the trumpet already.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 08-17-2001).]

[tomhartman]

Could someone give me the URL where I can hear this solo trumpet demo? Thanks...

[mahlon]

Dan,
Were the strings on O Mio Babbino, Caro from your string library?


Thanks,
Mahlon

[Jamieh]

http://www.dandeanpro.com/main.htm (\"http://www.dandeanpro.com/main.htm\")

Click on \"Demos\"

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mahlon:
Dan,
Were the strings on O Mio Babbino, Caro from your string library?


Thanks,
Mahlon<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HI Mahlon,

I don\'t remember which strings I used on the Puccini, but I always use my Solo Strings \"feathered-in\" over the top of whatever I use. It adds realism like you\'re listening to a concertmaster or 1st chair player just a tiny bit over the section. I have tried this on a number of different string ensembles and it works on all of them.

Thanks,
DD

[mahlon]

Dan,
Well, whatever you did it sounds good. I generally use the same technique when the strings need to be a little closer in the mix.


Mahlon

[Jamieh]

Dan, any timetable on when more demos of your library will be available? I want to buy it, but I don\'t yet know if I want the whole library or just the trupet. Thanks!

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
Dan, any timetable on when more demos of your library will be available? I want to buy it, but I don\'t yet know if I want the whole library or just the trupet. Thanks!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jamieh,

I\'m supposed to receive some mp3\'s tonight from Mike. I\'ll post here when they are up on the site. Donnie did one which I posted on my website \"Debussy\". The new .mp3\'s will demonstrate the top end of the brass. I\'m going to work on one myself and will have it done after I locate the score. Replication began on Monday, so product will be in soon. I\'m making sets up until that time.

Thanks,
DD

[Jamieh]

Cool Dan! Like I said, I think I\'m already sold on the trumpet, I just am trying to decide if I want to get the whole set or not.

Looking forward to more demos!

[dandean]

Greetings,

There is another Demo in .mp3 format on my site using the just released Dan Dean Solo Brass (& Woodwinds). It is entitled \"Brass Demo 2\". Note that it is the same composition in .mp3 demo form found in the Solo Woodwinds section, this time with MY brass in it. Thanks Bruce for a great job!

DD

[Jamieh]

Dan, I\'m a little confused by your web site--I\'m assuming you have to buy the trumpet as two separate disks (one for vibrato and one for non vibrato) but when you click on more info for DDSB-106 it says it is both the Vibrato and Non-Vibrato on 2 disks for $119. This is a mistake, correct?


[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 08-25-2001).]

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
Dan, I\'m a little confused by your web site--I\'m assuming you have to buy the trumpet as two separate disks (one for vibrato and one for non vibrato) but when you click on more info for DDSB-106 it says it is both the Vibrato and Non-Vibrato on 2 disks for $119. This is a mistake, correct?


[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 08-25-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geez, I thought we had fixed that error...the Trumpet is on 2 disks an NV disk and V disk. The same goes for the Piccolo Trumpet...2 disks NV on one and V on the other. Separately they are $119 each. The Trumpets are large at 700.6 (I believe) MB.

Thanks,
Dan Dean

[Jamieh]

Well the main ordering page has the correct info--it is only when you click \"more information\" (or something like that) that is seems to be in error.

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jamieh:
Well the main ordering page has the correct info--it is only when you click \"more information\" (or something like that) that is seems to be in error. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Jamieh,

Yes, I know. This will be repaired shortly. Everyone loves the Trumpets and Piccolo Trumpets hands down. The evenness of the attacks is amazing. I think there will be more .mp3\'s posted tonight to my website (www.dandeanpro.com) including the \"Holst\" example I mentioned before.

Thanks again,
DD

[This message has been edited by dandean (edited 08-26-2001).]

[Jamieh]

Cool. I am definitely getting some part of the library. I don\'t really need the low brass as much, so I\'m debating just going with the trumpet and horn. But I may go with the whole set.

Either way, I appreciate the ability to choose which way I want to go.

[IOComposer]

Dan,
The latest horn demo that you posted (the 3rd one) has me concerned about spending money on this library. While the actual sound is ok, the attacks are obviously staccatto attacks overlapping the long notes. Do the long notes have hard attacks or do they require the staccatto attacks?
-J

[Thomas_J]

It might sound a little bitching but that last demo couldn\'t have done the library justice. While I\'m sure the samples are good, the sequence certainly didn\'t show it. And it is too bad really. I depend on quality demos in order to buy libraries. Kirk Hunter did it for me, Ultimate Strings did it too. AO to some extent. Dan Dean, this just isn\'t cutting it for me. Sorry.

Lets just say the first piece seems much better than the rest, but it still doesn\'t showcase enough of the samples. I believe we\'ve heard enough soft dynamics. It is time for us to hear what I believe will be the forte of this library, namely the ff-fff samples. Play a well-known fanfare. Starwars is easy. Should take you about half an hour to whip that together without the accompanying instruments.

Seriously, Dan, you have sampled a world-class trumpetist. Surely you owe him more than this. I noticed you have some very nice feedback from James Newton Howard. Why not ask him for a quick snippet? You have NO idea how much a demo means to a potential costumer. A good demo even more so, as it will encourage him to buy it, obviously.

To draw a paralell: A guy buys a $1000000 violin. He has played for 3 years. He would in my eyes be an amateur. He has the technique, and probably locates the correct finger positions, but he does NOT know how to make instrument SING! As a result the violin will sound like a $1000 violin.

I\'m not implying that people who make these demos are amateurs! by no means! I know they are all professionals. My point is that samples are like instruments. They need to be played in an expressive and musical way, to really shine. First rule: DO NOT QUANTIZE ANYTHING. Second rule: learn to express yourself musically. (IOcomposer is doing this with a wind controller, and as you can hear it definitely pays off!) I have a feeling you are \"copying\" the scores by typing each instrument part directly into your sequencer. Then add expression and tweak notes afterwards. I really suggest you play each part as a standalone part and express yourself during the performance. It will open up a whole new world of realism. Sure it will take some time, but the result will most likely be stunning, and you\'ll have a demo that will sell more copies than you could ever imagine.

I\'m by no means doubting your hard efforts that went down in creating this library! I really applaud you for it, and I\'m sure it is fantastic. But until I\'ve heard a really convincing demo, I\'m not opening my wallet. Period. Sorry if that seems harsh, but that last demo kind of scared me away.

Thomas

[jazzman1222]

Dan,

Wonderful!! I would like to suggest a demo that would put minds at ease as to the quality of this library: Try a snippet from Mahlers 2nd(resurection) Symphony. The 3rd movement has some of those most awesome brass ever written. Examples would be the Solti recording of the Chicago on London/Decca. Maybe a A/B or just a MIDI file taken from this great work.

[Haydn]

I thought the sound was clearer on the first demo. The last demo sounds distorted to me even though it is at 256K. Maybe a problem with the program creating the MP3\'s?

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
It might sound a little bitching but that last demo couldn\'t have done the library justice. While I\'m sure the samples are good, the sequence certainly didn\'t show it. And it is too bad really. I depend on quality demos in order to buy libraries. Kirk Hunter did it for me, Ultimate Strings did it too. AO to some extent. Dan Dean, this just isn\'t cutting it for me. Sorry.

Lets just say the first piece seems much better than the rest, but it still doesn\'t showcase enough of the samples. I believe we\'ve heard enough soft dynamics. It is time for us to hear what I believe will be the forte of this library, namely the ff-fff samples. Play a well-known fanfare. Starwars is easy. Should take you about half an hour to whip that together without the accompanying instruments.

Seriously, Dan, you have sampled a world-class trumpetist. Surely you owe him more than this. I noticed you have some very nice feedback from James Newton Howard. Why not ask him for a quick snippet? You have NO idea how much a demo means to a potential costumer. A good demo even more so, as it will encourage him to buy it, obviously.

To draw a paralell: A guy buys a $1000000 violin. He has played for 3 years. He would in my eyes be an amateur. He has the technique, and probably locates the correct finger positions, but he does NOT know how to make instrument SING! As a result the violin will sound like a $1000 violin.

I\'m not implying that people who make these demos are amateurs! by no means! I know they are all professionals. My point is that samples are like instruments. They need to be played in an expressive and musical way, to really shine. First rule: DO NOT QUANTIZE ANYTHING. Second rule: learn to express yourself musically. (IOcomposer is doing this with a wind controller, and as you can hear it definitely pays off!) I have a feeling you are \"copying\" the scores by typing each instrument part directly into your sequencer. Then add expression and tweak notes afterwards. I really suggest you play each part as a standalone part and express yourself during the performance. It will open up a whole new world of realism. Sure it will take some time, but the result will most likely be stunning, and you\'ll have a demo that will sell more copies than you could ever imagine.

I\'m by no means doubting your hard efforts that went down in creating this library! I really applaud you for it, and I\'m sure it is fantastic. But until I\'ve heard a really convincing demo, I\'m not opening my wallet. Period. Sorry if that seems harsh, but that last demo kind of scared me away.

Thomas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Thomas,

Thanks for your input on the Dan Dean Solo Brass. I\'m sorry you didn\'t like the Trumpet in the .mp3 entitled \"Solo Brass Demo 2\". What was it about the trumpet that you thought could have been better? What was it about the trumpet you didn\'t like? Since I\'m always doing my best to improve my products, your feedback would be very much appreciated.

Let me hear from you,
Dan Dean


[This message has been edited by dandean (edited 08-27-2001).]

[Thomas_J]

Dan, first of all there is something strange going on with the panning in the horn. The staccato sample seems to be on the right side in the stereo field, while the sustained notes are on the left. While this is probably just panning data, it still sounds very odd. Both the trombone and the horn sound a little static to me. It could very well be the composition though. The micing sounds good though, and the sound quality is good too. As for the trumpet I\'m not sure we\'re talking about the same demo here. There are no trumpets in the brass.mp3 file on your site.

Thomas

[This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 08-27-2001).]

[Jamieh]

Thomas is right--the Brass 2 demo on the site is all horns and low brass, no trumpet. It sounds like the \"ensemble\" mode may have been being used, at least on the bones. I didn\'t think that demo was nearly as impressive as the initial one either--the low brass is buzzy but not powerful. It is like they are playing really loud but from across the street. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif This is probably just an artifact of playing the patch with high velocity but low volume.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 08-27-2001).]

[KingIdiot]

I believe its the same demo that Donnie posted a while ago with DD brass isn\'t it?

I remember adding a bit of low EQ and pullign some mids and it just sounding like it had a lot of \"thump\" to it. In fact I didn\'t like it when I first heard it, but was in my EQ Brass phase and jsut tweaked the EQ on my mixer really quick and was pretty satisfied with the thump added. Try it a little guys.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[donnie]

Ok, Ok, so I did a bad job! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

As \"the king\" suggested add some eq to it and it should make it sound much better.

You should\'t think poorly of a library just because of one demo where the guy who did it WAS an idiot! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[dandean]

We finally posted the new version of Holst 1st Suite in Eb - Intermezzo with my new Solo Brass. Bruce Richardson did the .mp3 and played the Trumpet solo in the middle section. It is on my site:
http://www.dandeanpro.com (\"http://www.dandeanpro.com\")

under DDSB demos.

Thanks,
DD

[Thomas_J]

hey now we\'re getting somewhere! The trumpet sounds great (especially in the first half of piece) Finally a convincing demo. Too bad it\'s quantized. This got me interested in your product again Dan. Good job!

Thomas

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
hey now we\'re getting somewhere! The trumpet sounds great (especially in the first half of piece) Finally a convincing demo. Too bad it\'s quantized. This got me interested in your product again Dan. Good job!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thomas,

Thanks for the kind words. I actually chose to tighten the piece up that much, but it\'s nondestructively quantized so I could back off a hair and see if it still holds up. Right now, it\'s not 100% quantized by a long shot, I just wanted it to be very tight--it was a conscious artistic decision. This piece (second of three movements between a chaconne and a march) is typically played very tightly and with no rubato--the center section really dies on the vine if romanticized.

I downloaded a sequence of this at first, thinking I might be able to use it, but alas it was step-entered and not suitable at all. Why do people even bother with that?

I ended up borrowing the score from a band director friend, and re-playing all the lines myself, but had to do it at reduced tempos because those woodwind parts are HARD in places!!

As for how this demonstrates Dan\'s brass (and woodwind) library, I think I am very accurate in saying that you only hear the very tip of the iceberg here.

I used NO staccato or portamento samples in the brass OR the woodwind parts, so this is literally \"as bad as it gets\" in terms of the responsiveness on fast passages and bite on the attacks. I think it\'s rather amazing that one can get a staccato with this much bite from the \"legato\" samples.

In particular, this shows on the little staccato eighth note figures immediately after the trumpet solo (which is un-quantized <g>).

That\'s a heck of a lot of bite for legato samples!! It\'s easy to get, because you can just play along and really dig into the short notes--the wide dynamic lets you achieve the bite through a combination of \"shortness\" and the triggering of an edgier, hotter sample. As you can hear, even in the legato, the attacks are immediate and lines can be played very musically without the \"mwap mwap mwap mwap\" sound.

The staccato samples themselves can get more extreme bite (as can the portamentos and various fp), but as I said earlier in another thread, I\'d rather be hit in the head than have to edit a line for two hours, assigning it to various length samples. For me, the holy grail is to be able to actually play the expression in realtime. That\'s what I enjoy most about being a musician...getting an immediate and satisfying result without laboring over it. The muses tend to get bored and wander off.

Best regards,
Bruce

PS...percussion samples are Donnie & Sean\'s from the Ultimate Timpani and UOP collections. Saxes are from Quantum Leap Brass. I substituted Bb Clarinet for Eb Clarinet, and Bass Clarinet for Alto Clarinet. The only non-sampled sound is the trumpet solo, which I\'d rather play myself than attempt to coax from samples...first take, baby--although I will confess to replacing a single excessively vibrato-ed note which Dan liked but made my skin crawl.