Daily usage of Finale

[Raymond62]

Of course I can download the "demo"-version, but before I'll do that the following issues:

Enharmonics


Inputting from MIDI keyboard. Suppose a piece in D major, it has two sharps. I input a C# on my keyboard, will it be notated as C# or as Db;
Inputting manually, via mouse. When I need an extra sharp I must type in some "triggering-key" for the sharp. Is the scope of the triggering only on that note in question or do I have to "untrigger" it before inputting the next note;
Inputting manually - mouse - do I need that "triggering" on notes that are by nature sharps/flats set by the key of the piece;
Can I select a block of notes and tell Finale to apply enharmonic defaults to all notes within that block?
Suppose an octave (piano) A and I want to make it A#, can I do that with only one instruction or do I have to set the sharp at both A's (so two instructions needed)

Trills


Can I assign the trill speed and the moment of trill starts;
Can I assign the nature of the trill - a second, third or else.

Glissando


Can I tell the glissando to do this only on white keys;
Can I set the starting moment of the glissando;
Can I set some property to the glissando to make a trombone glissando more realistic/a violin glissando more realistic

Rests


Is it possible to select the whole piece and tell to fill in all empty bars/measures with the appropriate rests;
Does that automated rest filling procedure follow the rules that after some eigth notes (incomplete beat/bar/measure) the first rest is another 8th value and the rest of the measure is filled with augmenting rest values (you know, first that 8th rest symbol, then a quarter rest, then if needed the half value;
Do I have to put in rests on more voices separately when I have a multi-voice staff or is Finale clever enough to set/display only one rest when both voices don't have notes at that beat;

Slurs


Setting a slur (legato) on divisi for strings is this just one action or should I set two slurs for both voices and does Finale display two slurs
Setting a slur across pages, is sometimes very hard to do. How does Finalye this?

Dynamics


Mainly for piano scores. Both hands can each play separate voices - often done - should I set e.g. an "f" separately for both voices or does this "f" apply to all voices
Does Finaly has hairpin settings where you can put in the beginning value, the midvalue and the endvalue. Overture gives you a graph which you can alter/draw yourself. By the way, Overture isn't very strong in maintaining the dynamic settings.
Can I myself decide to drag the dynamics up or down the staff

Accents and other stuff
Two voices (divisi) on violin staff. Accents can be placed just above this "chord" , above and below for both notes individually or in just one instruction
Formatting the page
Is the formatting following the "driver" specs of the attached printer?

Using other libraries than Garritan


Is it possible to use other sample libs in Finale and does Finale react on all articulations set in the score at they should. Using GPO a "pizzicato" triggers Fx, but using "Ultimate strings" must trigger a pizzicato effect. Can I do that (maybe with some macro-programming).
Do they also play in real-time when inputting the notes?

Exporting audio
Can I export staff by staff, a group of staffs or must I always export the whole piece to audio?Midi settings
Is there a way to alter the Midi representation, e.g. velocities of piano strokes?
Now you say, RTFM. That is true, but where can I download that manual? I've seen some video stuff on Finale, but most of the issues above aren't highlighted. It is like the demo-version of Hell, Bill Gates saw (that well know joke).

Maybe you say, why don't you try it, that downloadable demo-version? I should/will/do but when you are so kind to answer these questions then I don't have to pollute my system with all sorts of remaining registry entries and orphaned .dll's which are never removed by the installation programs.

With regards,

Raymond - still at sabattical, but preparing for the near future of my muisc making.

[Henry Buck]

Enharmonics


Inputting from MIDI keyboard. Suppose a piece in D major, it has two sharps. I input a C# on my keyboard, will it be notated as C# or as Db;
Inputting manually, via mouse. When I need an extra sharp I must type in some "triggering-key" for the sharp. Is the scope of the triggering only on that note in question or do I have to "untrigger" it before inputting the next note;
Inputting manually - mouse - do I need that "triggering" on notes that are by nature sharps/flats set by the key of the piece;
Can I select a block of notes and tell Finale to apply enharmonic defaults to all notes within that block?
Suppose an octave (piano) A and I want to make it A#, can I do that with only one instruction or do I have to set the sharp at both A's (so two instructions needed)


Yes to all of these. You don't have to "untrigger" an accidental after applying it if you do so with the keyboard (S = sharp, F = flat, N = natural). If you set a key signature, notes entered by mouse input will default to the accidentals of that key.



Trills


Can I assign the trill speed and the moment of trill starts;
Can I assign the nature of the trill - a second, third or else.


Not to my knowledge, though there are several types of trills available (mordent etc.). Human Playback options affect the sound of trills, i.e. Baroque trills sound different from Standard trills.



Glissando


Can I tell the glissando to do this only on white keys;
Can I set the starting moment of the glissando;
Can I set some property to the glissando to make a trombone glissando more realistic/a violin glissando more realistic


Yes, I don't think so, and yes. Trombone and violin glissandos (among other) use portamento by default.



Rests


Is it possible to select the whole piece and tell to fill in all empty bars/measures with the appropriate rests;
Does that automated rest filling procedure follow the rules that after some eigth notes (incomplete beat/bar/measure) the first rest is another 8th value and the rest of the measure is filled with augmenting rest values (you know, first that 8th rest symbol, then a quarter rest, then if needed the half value;
Do I have to put in rests on more voices separately when I have a multi-voice staff or is Finale clever enough to set/display only one rest when both voices don't have notes at that beat;


You can fill an entire piece with whole rests, but I'm not sure about other durations. Incomplete measures can be filled, but the durational divisions won't necessarily be to your liking. If you work with multiple voices you have to manage rests for each of them. However, you can hide rests in other voices from display. Also, you don't need to enter rests after notes in other voices, only before them. That is, you can leave rests unentered at the ends of measures.



Slurs


Setting a slur (legato) on divisi for strings is this just one action or should I set two slurs for both voices and does Finale display two slurs
Setting a slur across pages, is sometimes very hard to do. How does Finalye this?


If you're working with multiple voices you must enter slurs for each voice. Cross-page slurring is not a problem. Double click, hold and drag from anywhere in the score to anywhere else to slur everything between (if you have a beginning and ending note).



Dynamics



Mainly for piano scores. Both hands can each play separate voices - often done - should I set e.g. an "f" separately for both voices or does this "f" apply to all voices
Does Finaly has hairpin settings where you can put in the beginning value, the midvalue and the endvalue. Overture gives you a graph which you can alter/draw yourself. By the way, Overture isn't very strong in maintaining the dynamic settings.
Can I myself decide to drag the dynamics up or down the staff


Piand grand staves automatically recognize dynamics placed in the top staff; however, I've experienced a lot of bugs with this. If you don't want both hands at the same volume, you can place separate dynamics for each, as well. You can't enter values for hairpins. They default to whatever dynamics precede and follow them. If there are no dynamics then they perform a relative increase or decrease in volume (a p to f, I think).



Accents and other stuff
Two voices (divisi) on violin staff. Accents can be placed just above this "chord" , above and below for both notes individually or in just one instruction
Formatting the page
Is the formatting following the "driver" specs of the attached printer?

Again, when working with multiple voices you must handle the articulations for each one separately. No, formatting isn't affected by your printer. I'm not sure what you mean, but you would have to manually format your document to print the way you want it to.



Using other libraries than Garritan


Is it possible to use other sample libs in Finale and does Finale react on all articulations set in the score at they should. Using GPO a "pizzicato" triggers Fx, but using "Ultimate strings" must trigger a pizzicato effect. Can I do that (maybe with some macro-programming).
Do they also play in real-time when inputting the notes?

Exporting audio
Can I export staff by staff, a group of staffs or must I always export the whole piece to audio?Midi settings
Is there a way to alter the Midi representation, e.g. velocities of piano strokes?


You can use any VST instrument (or AU instrument on Macs). Finale will not react intelligently to articulations with other libraries, however. That requires manual programming. Yes, your other tracks will play during real-time keyboard note entry. Audio export can be changed by muting or soloing tracks. I don't think there's any way to change something like velocity input.

[qccowboy]

Of course I can download the "demo"-version, but before I'll do that the following issues:

Enharmonics


Inputting from MIDI keyboard. Suppose a piece in D major, it has two sharps. I input a C# on my keyboard, will it be notated as C# or as Db;
Inputting manually, via mouse. When I need an extra sharp I must type in some "triggering-key" for the sharp. Is the scope of the triggering only on that note in question or do I have to "untrigger" it before inputting the next note;
Inputting manually - mouse - do I need that "triggering" on notes that are by nature sharps/flats set by the key of the piece;
Can I select a block of notes and tell Finale to apply enharmonic defaults to all notes within that block?
Suppose an octave (piano) A and I want to make it A#, can I do that with only one instruction or do I have to set the sharp at both A's (so two instructions needed)

1. as said previously, if a key signature is given, notes automatically default to the appropriate ones. there is an option to alter to different defaults. accidentals can be enharmonically toggled easily with the [9] key.
2. I rarely use a mouse to enter notes.. actually, i never use one. if you have a MIDI keyboard, you won't WANT to use a mouse.
3. as said, key signature automatically gives the right accidentals.
4. yes
5. one instruction: [9]



Trills


Can I assign the trill speed and the moment of trill starts;
Can I assign the nature of the trill - a second, third or else.

1. not really, trills start on the note, exactly as they should. human playback takes care of humanizing the trill playback quite efficiently.2. trills are, by their very nature, 2nds. yes, you can notate either major or minor 2nd trills by using the appropriate articulations.
A 3rd is not a trill, it is a tremolo. yes you can create a tremolo across a 3rd (or other interval) that will playback properly.

Glissando


Can I tell the glissando to do this only on white keys;
Can I set the starting moment of the glissando;
Can I set some property to the glissando to make a trombone glissando more realistic/a violin glissando more realistic

1. depends on the instrument. for keyboards, yes. other instruments will default to chromatic (sliding) gliss.
2. as any notation, the gliss starts on the note to which it is assigned. it will play back as written. so yes.
3. glisses are one of the weaker aspects of using a sample library. it has nothing to do with Finale's playback. It is more the nature of the sound being generated. I've had good luck producing a rather convincing trombone gliss by layering two different trombone sounds: one plays a single short held note, while the second does the gliss.


Rests


Is it possible to select the whole piece and tell to fill in all empty bars/measures with the appropriate rests;
Does that automated rest filling procedure follow the rules that after some eigth notes (incomplete beat/bar/measure) the first rest is another 8th value and the rest of the measure is filled with augmenting rest values (you know, first that 8th rest symbol, then a quarter rest, then if needed the half value;
Do I have to put in rests on more voices separately when I have a multi-voice staff or is Finale clever enough to set/display only one rest when both voices don't have notes at that beat;

1. by default, Finale fills all measures with rests. there is no need to enter rests in empty measures.
2. the rule is that if a measure is empty, you place a whole note rest, regardless of what actual duration the measure has. ie: in 3/4 an empty measure has a 4-beat rest.
3. you need to place rests as you go when entering music. if you enter in different layers, you enter rests in each layer. notationally, you are required to place BOTH rests, unless it is a keyboard part, and even in that case, it is only acceptable in certain very rare instances. Finale is a powerful program, it WILL let you write almost whatever you want, whether it is correct notation or not. The more "correct" the notation, the higher the probability that Finale will notate it automatically.


Slurs


Setting a slur (legato) on divisi for strings is this just one action or should I set two slurs for both voices and does Finale display two slurs
Setting a slur across pages, is sometimes very hard to do. How does Finale this?

1. Finale displays as many slurs as you want. if the divisi is in two layers, then it is best to place slurs in both layers.
2. You work in Scroll View, which does not use pages, it is just one continuous stave that stretches out infinitely to the right. this is the preferred method for initial note entry as page layout should be one of your final acts.


Dynamics


Mainly for piano scores. Both hands can each play separate voices - often done - should I set e.g. an "f" separately for both voices or does this "f" apply to all voices
Does Finale has hairpin settings where you can put in the beginning value, the midvalue and the endvalue. Overture gives you a graph which you can alter/draw yourself. By the way, Overture isn't very strong in maintaining the dynamic settings.
Can I myself decide to drag the dynamics up or down the staff

1. generally, dynamics apply to all voices, but they can be set independently.
2. No. a hairpin goes from the starting dynamic to the target dynamic. generally, it is pointless to specify a mid-point dynamic.
3. graphically? yes, of course.


Accents and other stuff
Two voices (divisi) on violin staff. Accents can be placed just above this "chord" , above and below for both notes individually or in just one instruction articulations can be placed twice on a single note (the 2nd one needs to be manually dragged). if the divisi is in different layers, Finale automatically places the layer-assigned articulations in the right place.


Formatting the page
Is the formatting following the "driver" specs of the attached printer?
Formatting is what you see is what you get, generally. Don't forget that Finale is first and foremost an engraving program. It would be pointless for it to NOT print what you see on your screen.


Using other libraries than Garritan


Is it possible to use other sample libs in Finale and does Finale react on all articulations set in the score at they should. Using GPO a "pizzicato" triggers Fx, but using "Ultimate strings" must trigger a pizzicato effect. Can I do that (maybe with some macro-programming).
Do they also play in real-time when inputting the notes?

1. Humanplayback can be set to recognize a wide range of different keyswitches. I use Finale with both Garritan products and Xsamples Chamber Orchestra.
2. Yes. Touch a key on the keyboard, and you hear the instrument for that staff.


Exporting audio
Can I export staff by staff, a group of staffs or must I always export the whole piece to audio?Export the whole thing. But there are ways of exporting individual staves. Remember that Finale is not created to render audio as its principle function. If you absolutely do not like the way Finale performs your music, then you can export the MIDI file it generates to a DAW.


Midi settings
Is there a way to alter the Midi representation, e.g. velocities of piano strokes? you can set the base velocity of anything.


Now you say, RTFM. That is true, but where can I download that manual? I've seen some video stuff on Finale, but most of the issues above aren't highlighted. It is like the demo-version of Hell, Bill Gates saw (that well know joke).

Maybe you say, why don't you try it, that downloadable demo-version? I should/will/do but when you are so kind to answer these questions then I don't have to pollute my system with all sorts of remaining registry entries and orphaned .dll's which are never removed by the installation programs.

With regards,

Raymond - still at sabattical, but preparing for the near future of my muisc making.


I use Finale exclusively to create my music. You need only listen to demos of my music to hear how it plays.

I don't use a DAW. I don't "tweak" my audio in another app.

Generally speaking, what you hear is what I am also printing and sending to my publisher.

There are many little "tricks of the trade", such as using invisible articulations or expressions to get the playback exactly the way you like it without cluttering your score with excessive graphics. Invisible items appear on screen only and do not print. They appear generally in 50% density.

I use a panoply of invisible items to adjust tempo, dynamics, attacks, etc...
one you are used to it, it's quite simple, really.

The important thing is not to fuss over the "final performance" NOR the "final score" while you are composing. Get the general idea down. You adjust it later once most of the notes are in place.

[Raymond62]

This was a lot of answering. You don't know how much this helps me.

Michel, about the trills on piano. Or you must have some "immediate momentum" but a trill on a piano never starts at full speed. The first three or four occurences are used for acceleration. At the other hand, sometimes it augments the performance when the pianist starts slowly (not too slow, depends on the piece) and accelerates to the end, to slow down a bit when the "time is up" preparing for the next sequence.

As far as my ears don't cheat me, even string players do this ,start slower, accellerate and slow down (a bit) for the next turn. Very subtle, yes, but present.

For both of you, why did I ask all this? The last couple of days I was working with Notion3 and all of the above "clumsiness" came by. I filled the Notion forum with a lot of questions and finally somebody admitted that "in the next release some of my remarks should be solved".

To be honest, I am a bit sick of this "money-making-music-industry" with their promises and statements that such or so was achieved with the cooperation of composers, artists, orchestrators, musicians, etc. If this is true (about all those 'giants' cooperating) then they never had some some experience inputting music in a computer, never used MIDI keyboards, never used mice and other pointing stuff. All we @#$%-users are good for, is the money we spent buying this crap.

Over the years I spent a lot of useless money and time with notation programs: Noteworthy, Music Maker(something like this), Mozart, Overture, Lilypond (free), Rosegarden for Windows (and even tried it on a Linux box) and now Notion3 (luckily got it cheaper, bundled with some SONAR update). I even tried Finale some time ago, the demo version was very, very crippled and I never got it to work properly.

You know, promises make the world go round, but they also caused the financial crisis we all suffer today.


Raymond

[swinkler]

Raymond,

I understand your frustration and believe me the "promise" of some feature in the "next release" is not unique to music software.

If I were you I'd download the demo version which as far as I know is fully functional for 30 days. I'm not sure about saving files, etc.

Then on the subject of trills I believe you can globally tell the HumanPlayback engine how fast you want the trills to sound by defining how many notes per beat you want played back. If a sound has a sampled trill as part of a keyswitched patch, the trill articulation will trigger the sampled trill as in the case of section string patches. But in your example of the piano, I don't think there's a way to have a more "rubato" type of trill. You can also define styles that the humanplayback engine will further interpret markings which may influence this a bit more but I'm not really familiar with the subtleties of those styles.

Steve Winkler

[qccowboy]

Raymond, the issue of trills is also, unfortunately, one of taste.

Humanplayback in Finale does humanize all trills, starting a bit slower, speeding up, etc... but it may not be the way YOU specifically want it. But then, a live performance might not be the way you want it either. I know that personally, I prefer a trill that has only a very tiny variation in speed between its opening, middle and end.

The only way to really know how Finale will play trills back for you is to try all the different Humanplayback presets (there are about a dozen presets, from Baroque to 20th century).

Remember that Finale is, as I said, first and foremost a notation program. Albeit one with tremendous playback capabilities compared to its rivals.

As for older versions of Finale, it is one software package that has grown exponentially in the last few years. Particularly in the area of playback. The playback you will get from Finale'10 is markedly superior to that which you will get from Finale '05.

You will never get the fine-detail playback adjustments that you can get from a DAW with Finale. On the other hand, you will never get the perfectly notated score with a DAW that Finale gives you, either.

Each one has its strengths, and weaknesses.

I think you know my music and the demos I've posted here. And you know that I work exclusively from within Finale. If at some point you wish me to send you a .MUS file of one of my pieces, I can do so (although I've taken to using Xsamples Chamber Ensemble a great deal for my string sounds).

By the way, Xsamples uses Kontakt Player, and comes complete with HumanPlayback definitions all ready for Finale. You only need to load the .mus file they supply, and save the preferences for humanplayback. Then any new file you open will have all you need to get XCE to work perfectly.

[Raymond62]

I think I'll give it a try and I can't save files, so I have to do all sorts of testing within the timespan of 12 hrs. Why can't I go on the next day? Now I have to have my computer switched on all night long........ Oh boy, what a world!!!!!

I had another look at the Finale Music site and to my surprise the shown ARIA player doesn't at all look as mine. Who is cheating who, or is it again a special written for Finale? Or an update they have and we don't.

Raymond
[when I have 20 million, I'll start my own company]
[what a name, great: Crabtree, Québec])(~

[Mad Kiltie]

Hi Raymond,

The Aria Player in Finale was developed specifically for Finale & possibly Sibelius. It does look slightly different (scaled down) however as you have the full blown Aria, you can also host that within Finale.

Regards

Derek

[Raymond62]

Hi Raymond,

The Aria Player in Finale was developed specifically for Finale & possibly Sibelius. It does look slightly different (scaled down) however as you have the full blown Aria, you can also host that within Finale.

Regards

Derek

Yes, Derek. Another thing is that when I buy Finale I get Garritan sounds all over again, plus some extra. .... and I already have the GPO....!!!

Raymond

[swinkler]

There are a handful of sounds from JAAB and concert and marching band as well as a few sounds from the world library in the set of sounds that come with Finale and AREN'T a part of GPO.

Let us know how the experimenting go and we'll be happy to help you along the way so you can make a good and fair evaluation.

Steve Winkler

[caher]

[when I have 20 million, I'll start my own company]
[what a name, great: Crabtree, Québec])(~

Raymond,

There is an old joke hidden here. How do you make a small fortune in notation software development? Start with a large fortune!

All kidding aside, the companies that produce notation software are operate on very slim margins, as far as I can tell. Nobody is getting rich on this stuff. It is, in fact a niche market with very high development & support costs. I looked into making an investment into Music Makers stock about a year ago because it appears to be a well run small company (aprox 60 employees). I decided not to make that investment because I determined that while its short term prospects looked OK, they could easily be pushed into unprofitability and bankruptcy by conditions not under their control. Look at the problems with Noteworthy (no support of updates for years) and Overture (very haphazard support). These are both one man operations, I suspect and don't appear to be sustainable from a business model perspective. I feel that the tools that we have available to us these days are fantastic(warts and all!). These tools won't continue to be there for us if the people/companies that produce them can't get by.

Chris

[qccowboy]

[what a name, great: Crabtree, Québec])(~


totally off-topic, but...

it's a town of around 3500 people, an hour outside of Montréal, Québec.

named for its founder: Edwin Crabtree, who with his two sons established the little town a little over 100 years ago as a milling town.

[rbowser-]

----What happened to the blissful sabbatical with nothing but good reading, good listening, good food, and good time with your wife? You sound more stressed out than ever!

Randy

[garymosse]

Hi Raymond,
I've been using Finale since 1992.
Every now & then they get it right...
My version of 2010(MAC) doesn't auto-fill an incomplete measure with rests. If U don't enter there won't be any. This also works with layers since 2nd layers don't need end of measure rests. I would prefer most of the time to have rests filled automatically.
You could once highlight part of a measure & paste it in another part. Slurs have NEVER been fixed.
Setting a Score is more difficult. Crews/decres; dynamics, etc. move as the size of page changes.
Playback is better. Set up of instruments is easier.
Multiple pp in playback don't maintain single page position....

Gary

[qccowboy]

Hi Raymond,
I've been using Finale since 1992.
Every now & then they get it right...
My version of 2010(MAC) doesn't auto-fill an incomplete measure with rests. If U don't enter there won't be any. This also works with layers since 2nd layers don't need end of measure rests. I would prefer most of the time to have rests filled automatically.
You could once highlight part of a measure & paste it in another part. Slurs have NEVER been fixed.
Setting a Score is more difficult. Crews/decres; dynamics, etc. move as the size of page changes.
Playback is better. Set up of instruments is easier.
Multiple pp in playback don't maintain single page position....

Gary

Finale will auto-fill measures with rests if you actually select that option. it has always had this feature, and still does.

You can select a partial measure and copy/paste to another part even more easily now than with previous versions. I think you may need to look into the new selection tool and I am sure you will realize that it is far more powerful than the old way of doing things (for example, there is no need now to select partial or complete measures in the option menu. the tool is always active for either or. it only depends on how you click-drag enclose the notes or measure)

dynamics and hairpins HAVE to move as you resize measures and systems. it would be a nightmare if they didn't.

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by "multiple pp".

[Raymond62]

----What happened to the blissful sabbatical with nothing but good reading, good listening, good food, and good time with your wife? You sound more stressed out than ever!

Randy

This is not stress, Randy. It is informative on how I want filling up the future of musical doings....... and be sure, Randy, I read novels, I go out, I spend time with my wife (even during the daylight hours), I listen to music. These lines of questions are purely gathered on a piece of paper with (text)notes of the things I ran into and gave me headaches, during the longer past time up to now.

Besides that, there is nothing in the world more relaxing than gathering knowledge of certain things, in particular things I left laying around in the corners of my brain, some "black holes", which gave me from time to time that unsatisfying feeling of "I am a complete fool".

I got off that high-speed train, trying to make it as perfect as DPDAN's stuff, as perfect on all things I thought to improve, I just pulled the brakes in time and now I am designing a new start with other perspectives, other goals, other interests.

... and a bit of stress is always good for the level of adrenaline....... keeps men going (haha).

Have peace my worrying friend, besides the seasonal hay feever attacks and the ever continuing story of my spiral bones, I am feeling better every day........

http://www.sangha.nl/ms/afbeeldingen/relaxed.jpg

Raymond

[pokeefe]

... the companies that produce notation software are operate on very slim margins, as far as I can tell. Nobody is getting rich on this stuff. It is, in fact a niche market with very high development & support costs. ...
Look at the problems with Noteworthy (no support of updates for years) and Overture (very haphazard support). These are both one man operations, I suspect and don't appear to be sustainable from a business model perspective. I feel that the tools that we have available to us these days are fantastic(warts and all!). These tools won't continue to be there for us if the people/companies that produce them can't get by.
Chris

It will be interesting to see how free (GNU GPL), open-source MuseScore does as time goes by. I'm sure it has some official core organization behind it, but its development is done by volunteers so it has a lot less overhead than the big players. A lot less functionality, too, of course - very limited expression interpretation during playback, no VST support, etc. The playback will improve as people develop the support. VST support is more problematic since there are licensing considerations.

Pat

[Raymond62]

Hi all,

downloaded the demo version of FINALE and installed it.



Managed to import an XML file.
Tried to setup the instruments.
Tried to playback with or without human playback.
Tried to get the help file/instructions.
Tried to tell Finale where my plugins are.
Tried to rescan the plugins.
Tried everything all over again from 2.


Only the score is there and for the rest NOTHING HAPPENS!! How on earth would they think that I'll buy this product. They suppose having some MIDI equipment or MIDI playback thru some obscure .sf2 file which I can't find, or else.... I couldn't get that far.

Raymond

[FW Lineberry]

Hi all,

downloaded the demo version of FINALE and installed it.



Managed to import an XML file.
Tried to setup the instruments.
Tried to playback with or without human playback.
Tried to get the help file/instructions.
Tried to tell Finale where my plugins are.
Tried to rescan the plugins.
Tried everything all over again from 2.

Only the score is there and for the rest NOTHING HAPPENS!! How on earth would they think that I'll buy this product. They suppose having some MIDI equipment or MIDI playback thru some obscure .sf2 file which I can't find, or else.... I couldn't get that far.


Raymond


I believe the demo lacks vst support.... don't know why.

[Raymond62]

I believe the demo lacks vst support.... don't know why.

Maybe, but the program is still one of the best, they say. But how on earth could they think that potential users buy it when you only can install it and play some notes from Mp3-based Garritan stuff (if I ever could that getting to work)? How can they think the serious buyer will ever purchase this thing, when you even can't save a file to continue the next day?

I would say, make it fully workable within, let us say, 14 days. That should be enough for a guy to make up his mind and explore those numerous possibilities they advertise with.

But I am not in charge at the marketing division of this company. Luckily not.

Raymond

[qccowboy]

Raymond, that has ALWAYS been MakeMusic's way of releasing the demo. And it is very similar to the way many other software firms function.

More often than not, the demo version is limited in some fashion, and often by its inability to save.

As for the VST not working in the demo, don't forget that Finale is a NOTATION program. They don't consider the playback of VSTs to be the primary reason someone tries the program.

"Serious buyers" are aware that Finale is top of the line when it comes to notation. "Serious buyers" talk to other Finale users when they can and find out about its playback functionality. That is exactly what happened here. You asked questions, we answered them. But don't start complaining because the demo version limits what you can do with the program.

When you install Finale, you copy a single .dll fle into Finale's VST folder for every sample library you use. It's a very easy process.

However, don't expect to pick up Finale and be up and running doing everything that the program can do. It has a very steep learning curve, and for good reason: it's a very complex program that lets you do very complex engraving. Playback is a side-benefit. It's great that Finale plays our music, and actually does so wonderfully. But if ALL you need is playback, don't buy Finale. It is not primarily a playback program. Really exceptional playback will ALWAYS require little tricks and cheats and work-arounds, unlike in a DAW.

[Raymond62]

Sorry Michel, but you yourself pointed out that the playback was great and that you don't use a SONAR-like thing to make your music. So I was also curious about the playback facilities. MakeMusic also advertized the playback facilities (that wonderful Humanize).

I won't complain anymore. It may upset you and others too much.

Raymond

[serenitymusician]

Hi Raymond,

I understand where you are coming from. As you know, I have Finale as well, but it's the 2009 version. I ran into the same problem when I downloaded the 2010 demo. No VST's. No saves. As Michel said, many demo programs are just that way, not that I like it. And then there are some programs like Sound Forge Pro 10 which will let you have full, complete control for 30 days including letting you save files. In fact, I used the demo version on Music for an Unwritten Film, which was nice (now I have to decide whether I want to actually buy it!). I agree with you, 14 days of total use of the Finale demo would be great. I could decide if it would be worth the upgrade from '09. Then again, some vendors won't even let you try a demo anymore and I'm not sure what that's all about. It's hard to invest in software if you can't even try it to see if it's what you need. Imagine trying to buy a car but the dealer won't let you do anymore than just look at pictures! "Hey, it gets great gas mileage. Look at that interior! Yes, sir, it does come in a variety of colors. What, you want to actually see the car and DRIVE IT?!? Sir, we don't do that here."

Gary A.

[Raymond62]

One last remark. I cannot get it - the pure notation part - without the sound libraries unless I send them my other Notation Program in a box.

See this order form:

http://downloads2.makemusic.com/forms/FinaleCompTradeForm.pdf

and I already have all Garritan stuff I ever wanted.

Raymond

[qccowboy]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your complaint.

It's the exact same deal as Sibelius gives for the crossgrade.

Send in your disk or the first page of the manual and you get the preferential price. That's a rebate of 2/3 off the price.

You are presently a Sibelius user? or some other program that is in that list? Then you can send them the installation disk for that program (note: it doesn't HAVE to be "the latest version" you have of that disk, you know... I have Finale disks dating back nearly 20 yrs now, so I could take the same deal from Sibelius, but send them an older version of Finale which I own).

If I were you, I wouldn't buy Finale if all you want is "new sounds". Right now, I'm not even sure why you want to buy Finale at all.

I'm not criticizing you, or upset.
I'm trying to understand your complaints.

You can try Finale via their downloadable demo - which, like many other software demos, is fully functional except for printing and saving. As it is a downloadable demo, it does not come with any of the VSTs. Those files would make for a much too massive download. I think it is reasonable that they not be included in the demo download.

MakeMusic sells their product for $600. If you are a student, you can get an educational discount. If you are a teacher you can get an educational discount. If you are a clergy person (or employee of) you can get a special institutional discount.

And they also offer to clients of their major competitors a means of "crossgrading" to Finale. To do so, they require that you send in the installation disk of your copy of whatever program you are using. Most people send in an older version, as most people who do take advantage of the crossgrade offer tend to be people who have been using a program for a few years.

I guess it's a major decision to part with the installation disks of a program you've been using, but then, switching to another major software program can be a major decision as well.

In my opinion, even paying the full price for Finale is a worthwhile investment for anyone who makes music for more than 15 minutes a day.

When I consider how much I have spent on sample libraries so far, the full price of Finale is not that much. Even if I only take into consideration what I paid for the Garritan products I have.

[Raymond62]

If I were you, I wouldn't buy Finale if all you want is "new sounds". Right now, I'm not even sure why you want to buy Finale at all.

When I want Finale I want Finale because of the notation quality.

I don't want more sounds, I only want and already have Garritan Personal Orchestra and the Garritan Authorized Steinway. I gave away the JABB and STRAD because I don't use/want them anymore. Under normal ordering conditions, I only can get the full Finale plus all sounds I just gave away and/or already have and no longer need as an extra.

I sent them an email to indicate that Overture, which I am using now for the most, can't be shipped to them because it is only a registered download. I only can send them the online printed purchase bill with registration number.

I must try living with a moderate income, retired you know and there are more things in life but musical stuff.........

This will be definitely my Final message about Finale.

Raymond