can you guess???

[donnie]

Ok lets have some fun with this! Who can guess the sampled one from the real one?
http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/percex1.mp3 (\"http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/percex1.mp3\")
http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/percex2.mp3 (\"http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/percex2.mp3\")

[Hans Adamson]

Hey Donnie,

I put my money on example 2 (as the real one). Simply because I think it sounds better. If it is your sample - congrats!

Hans

[This message has been edited by Hans Adamson (edited 08-08-2001).]

[Aenigma]

I think it\'s the 2nd example that is real, although I far prefer the sounds in example 1, which I believe to be your samples.

[KingIdiot]

agreed Ex 2 sounds like the real one to me

but they both sound really good.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Jamieh]

I also agree, Ex 2 sounds \"live\", but not significantly better. Ex 1 simply sounds slightly more mechanical, however the sounds themselves are excellent.

Of course, I could be wrong. But either way the sampled sounds are excellent.

[tomhartman]

I\'d have to with the second one as being real.

The first one sounds great though. Excellent sounds. Where is that tubular bell from??

[gigaDiga]

I tred carefully and maybe I\'m wrong but for me its the general ambience and the 3d placement which gives example two away.

This will be an area which Giga would benefit from piping through an excellent reverb and 3d positioner. The first one just sounds a bit too `perfect` so a bit of light grungifying would probably add enormously to the realism. If you had this Donnie I\'m sure you could fool us all.

Hmmm interesting in a way though because what you are asking us to compare and contrast with is not an actual instrument but a recording of an instrument and maybe its the grunge of the recording which gives it away.

This, of course, is the perfect moment to make fools of us all and reveal your samples as number 2. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[donnie]

Interesting responses so far!.....


<this \"may\" suprise some of you> the \"sampled\" one is NOT from UOP! hmm....... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

[Haydn]

Donnie,

Have been trying to download the demos you posted on a couple threads but your website is not loading up.

[ursatz]

Donnie, if it turns out that #2 is sampled, I\'m gonna be really amazed - #1 sounds a lot like UOP....

[Z6]

Well, as usual, I\'m fooled. If you hadn\'t told us that one was sampled I would never have guessed that either could be anything other than \'real\'.

The first one sounds much better, that\'s all I know. I believe that if you have to listen carefully at all then you\'re fooled and that\'s that. Anyway, I can\'t \'squint\' with my ears the way I can with my eyes.

I also think that if you hadn\'t said in your previous \'Adagio\' that you put it together quickly (sounded \'too\' good) there would have been a lot more of \"too warm... the higher frequencies were unbalanced\" etc.

What I like about this one is that both sound entirely real to me. But I haven\'t got those high-resolution sample detectors installed in my brain yet.

I\'m interested also though in how people smoke them out; they seem to listen for non-music related artifacts. Just don\'t go and tell me that they ARE both real. I want to buy those samples and I\'m already saving up for the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra (they should fit nicely in the trunk of my car).

[Simon Ravn]

Hmmm Donnie this is tough. Maybe they\'re both made from samples. There\'s nothing in anyone of them that wouldnt be possible. Maybe you used some of your new stuff in the 2nd one, I think the chimes sound better there, and the wooden blocks have a bit more depth, but that could be created by eq\'ing.... tough.

[killerbobjr]

The first one is real, the second one uses samples. You can hear the identical sound and decay on the bell at 00:06.7 and 00:26.4, but the dead give-away was the unnatural crescendo on the cymbal. The tone on the mallet cymbal opens up much more naturally on the first example.

[Adrian H]

Well I reckon that they are either both sampled or both real, but with different eq\'s.

If one is sampled and one real, then I\'m impressed at how you managed to get them to be so close to each other in tempo.

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif Watch me be totally wrong with my prediction http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

P.S. I think the first one sounds best.

[IOComposer]

To my ears, the second example sounds like the real one. However, the first one sounds better. The difference to me is the clarity of the high end. Real recordings are currently uncapable of capturing that kind of definition in the high end. To make the samples more realisitic, I believe you\'d have to filter out some of the high end. It\'s funny that we have the capability to make orchestral recording higher quality, and yet we strive for the sound that was technically impossible to achieve years ago. Go figure.
-J

[Simon Ravn]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killerbobjr:
but the dead give-away was the unnatural crescendo on the cymbal. The tone on the mallet cymbal opens up much more naturally on the first example.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhm... why would that tell if one thing is sampled, or \'real\'? Sampling a crescendo on a cymbal separately and playing it as a sample or playing it while the other instruments are playing here, shouldn\'t make a big difference.... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Anyway the two cymbals are different sizes since they have different tones. But let\'s wait and see what Donnie says.

[killerbobjr]

In the first example, the tone \"opens up\" as it were as the cymbal is struck harder. This is a different effect from a filter allowing more high frequency through at higher velocity. On the second example, it sounds like two samples were being triggered, pp and mf. The tonal spectrum changes abruptly and remains consistant at the two levels regardless of the \"velocity\" of the strikes.

[donnie]

some very perceptive thoughts going on here....however there is not any filtering going on at all in either one.

Oh, I forgot to mention one has reverb added to it and the other is dry.......

Donnie

[Z6]

So, a touch of reverb was all it took for me to like the first one much more? They\'re the same?

[Marc Floessel]

Nice fooling, Donnie. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Here\'s something I\'d like to hear: After this rather subtle demo, how about creating a full blown orchestral movie percussion - big blockbuster hero-style. The kind of percussion you\'d hear in a movie like The Abyss, ID4 or Starship Troopers. I would love to hear a mock up like this with your samples.

I\'d actually say that this is going to be very difficult to do without proper special samples. Maybe you can answer this then: The kind of giant military snares we\'d hear in such a movie - how do they differ (if they do?) from yours. And if they differ - will you sample instruments like these too some day?

[This message has been edited by Marc Floessel (edited 08-09-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Marc Floessel (edited 08-09-2001).]

[donnie]

oops...after going back and listening I did make one mistake....they both have similar reverbs added but they are different......

sorry....

Donnie

Marc: I\'d be glad to!....

[Marc Floessel]

Donnie,

Well, I don\'t want to put too much work onto you really, but hey if you get around to do it... would be great!

I\'d just as much appreciate to learn how this kind of sound is achieved too though. Do you know which kind of snare sound I am thinking of? It might be some kind of processing that is added to the sound or special recording too.

[Marc Floessel]

Sorry for disrupting this discussion with my sub-thread... my bad, I actually thought the \"official\" part of this discussion was already over. Seems the mystery is still in full effect. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[donnie]

Ok, so heres the skinny on the demos.....

drum roll please......(sorry couldn\'t resist)

They are BOTH sampled sequences!

Each one has different instruments used and has a different reverb attached to it.

As I said before none of the samples were from UOP.....soooo......stay tuned!!!

Donnie

[ursatz]

Ok, Donnie... I\'m tuned!

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[killerbobjr]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>
They are BOTH sampled sequences!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well then I want what you used in the first one. The second one sounded way too unnatural to my ears.

[donnie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killerbobjr:
Well then I want what you used in the first one. The second one sounded way too unnatural to my ears.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Thats cool but your talking about the difference between all top quality pro percussion gear. So you a particular cymbal better than another....there are PLENTY to choose from....I didn\'t EVEN scratch the surface of this thing....

oh, and besides a little tempo ajustment and humanization they were exactly the same....all I did was replace instrument.

Donnie

[Chris Beck]

Hmmm, two Donnie-Challenges, two trick questions, the latter a thinly veiled promo for an upcoming VERY MYSTERIOUS percussion library.

Just observing (OK, and salivating a little too) http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

- Chris

[donnie]

????????? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[gigaDiga]

Lovely work Donnie... I\'m most impressed.

Maybe later, after you\'ve unveiled your new secret weapon, you could give us the low down on how you got the second one to sound SO good.

You certainly had me fooled...

[Jamieh]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>I also think that if you hadn\'t said in your previous \'Adagio\' that you put it together quickly (sounded \'too\' good) there would have been a lot more of \"too warm... the higher frequencies were unbalanced\" etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it was obvious from the get-go that the other one was a real recording. The amount of expression in the strings just hasn\'t been duplicated by any sample library.

Anyways it is perfectly possible for a \"live\" recording to be \"too warm\" or have \"unbalanced high frequencies\" depending on how the recording engineer set things up.