Aria Mixer Keeps Resetting On Playback

[Michael_uk]

Why is it that having used Aria's sliders to balance the instruments loaded into the player, the sliders reset themselves when restarting playback? :mad:

I have checked the MIDI data in Sonar and nothing has crept in that would cause this. In Kontakt 4 there was a box I could clear to stop the MIDI controllers resetting the levels .. or something like that. Is there a similar setting somewhere in Aria?

I know I can Use Finale's or Sonar's mixers but there are times when I would prefer to use the player's mixer.

So, please, what can I do to keep my mix in Aria?

Thanks.

[Haydn]

It sounds like Sonar is resetting them. I disable the volume and pan settings for the ARIA channels in Sonar and I haven't had any issues with them resetting.

Jim

[RichR]

Haydn said:

I disable the volume and pan settings for the ARIA channels in Sonar and I haven't had any issues with them resetting.

And how do you do that? I am curious and would like to know.

Thanks

[marce]

If i correctly remember, right click on the volume slider of the midi track and you would be able to disable it.

[RichR]

Thanks marce for the info. I had never thought to do something like that and always used sonar settings for volume, pan etc. This gives one more option.

[rbowser-]

I saw this question earlier - darn me but I can't remember how to disable that. Right click on the fader strip in Sonar doesn't do it.

Waiting for Haydn to come back and explain.

I don't touch the mixer in Aria, wanting all my control to occur in Sonar, hence my vagueness on this. I use default Aria settings, leave controls on the MIDI channels alone in Sonar, which is panned center, full volume. All the rest I do with Audio, except of course there's tons of the instrument MIDI parameters, cc1, vibrato, whatever else.

Not long ago the same question came up in one of the Tech Forums - but I couldn't find the thread just now.

Randy

[Garritan]

Hi Michael,

Happy Easter!

In know in the past with older versions of Sonar, there was a setting in SONAR which would cause the Mod Wheel Data to reset to "0" whenever you hit stop. You can try this:

Select the "Options | Project" menu
Click the "Midi Out" tab on the dialog
Uncheck "Zero Controllers When Play Stops"

Maybe this will work with your version of Sonar.

Gary

[rbowser-]

Gary! Checking the Forum one last time night--What a great surprise to see you here.

Yes, the "re-set to Zero" is still a function in Sonar and has to be un-checked for any project using Garritan Libraries, otherwise our tracks would always being going silent when we start and stop - CC1 would be taken down to zero.

But what Michael's issue is that in Sonar's MIDI tracks, the mixer modules control Aria's mixer. It over-rides Aria's controls, so that no matter what settings you have in your Aria Mixer, the default "center" and MIDI volume of 100 will be sent to it via Sonar, erasing settings a user's tried to set up in Aria.

I use Aria, and Kontakt before it, only as an audio engine to get my instruments sounding off in Sonar. I do all settings in Sonar - But some people, naturally enough, want to work with Aria's mixer.

There is some setting--I just can't remember what it is, which will stop Aria's mixer from being taken over by Sonar--It's not in Aria, but in Sonar. In Kontakt, we turned off the CC7/CC10 control inside Kontakt itself.

If you see this, please say Hi to Marianne for me and Kate. Thinking of her every day.

Randy

[Tom_Davis]

This thread is of interest to me as well. The mixer settings in both Aria and Finale keep resetting every time I play the music selection. I hope someone has an answer for me too. I do not use the Cubase Studio 5 because I have not yet been able to load the samples into it.

[Michael_uk]

Hi Michael,

Happy Easter!

In know in the past with older versions of Sonar, there was a setting in SONAR which would cause the Mod Wheel Data to reset to "0" whenever you hit stop. You can try this:

Select the "Options | Project" menu
Click the "Midi Out" tab on the dialog
Uncheck "Zero Controllers When Play Stops"

Maybe this will work with your version of Sonar.

GaryWell ..... what a wonderful surprise to see you here Gary. :)

Thank you for your suggestion. I had tried that but to no avail. I'm sure we'll find the answer.

More importantly, fondest wishes to yourself, Marianne and Kate and a very happy Easter.

[sunbird]

Michael,

Maybe you'll find an answer in this previous thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68661).

I work with Cubase and I save Aria's changes as a preset.
I also draw-in the volume in the CC lane in the PRV.
Both these keep the faders right in place.

Hope this helps. :)

~Yudit~

[Michael_uk]

Michael,

Maybe you'll find an answer in this previous thread (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68661).

I work with Cubase and I save Aria's changes as a preset.
I also draw-in the volume in the CC lane in the PRV.
Both these keep the volume faders right in place.

Hope this helps. :)

~Yudit~
Hello Yudit,

Thanks for your suggestion, it's much appreciated.

It does sound as if there is a setting in Sonar to stop it overriding Aria's mixer and this would be my preferrred option. Only problem for now is .. where is that setting? :confused:

Off to do more searching .....

[fred Holmes]

Hi Micherl_uk,
I gave the same issue and as a workaround I insert a CC7 controller message at the start of each track (I always start midi in measure #2) This sets Aria mixer at a fixed level then I use CC1 to adjust the modwheel volumn/expression info into Garritan stuff

Fred

[rbowser-]

Hey, Michael and Fred - I just got through responding to your question posted at Sonar. In case you see posts here at Garritan first, here's a copy of what I just now posted over there:
--------------------
There has to be a way to disconnect the Sonar MIDI strips so they don't control Aria's mixer settings, but I still haven't been able to figure it out.

The Zero Controllers setting is necessary to un-check in the Sonar project settings for a Garritan-oriented piece, otherwise CC1 which controls Garritan volume would constantly be set to Zero whenever you stop playback.

But that doesn't effect what you're talking about, because the CC7 and CC10 data hasn't been recorded in the track itself.

Fred's work around works, and of course you'd do the same thing to set a panning value with CC10 - but it's too bad there has to be a work around. I could've sworn the answer to this was posted awhile back at the Garritan Forum, but I haven't been able to find it.

I've used Sonar and GPO for a long time. I continue to use the Kontakt Player, and sometimes use the newer Aria player. In both cases, my way of working doesn't relate to yours, Michael, since I consider the sample players as simply the audio conduit for getting my instruments to sound off inside my Sonar projects. I want all the rest to be done inside Sonar, since it does it all so well. I feel too claustrophobic trying to do all that work inside a sample player's GUI.

BUT I want to offer this idea, it may be even easier than Fred's solution:

--When you have Aria's GUI open in Sonar and you're working on a track, the Sonar MIDI mixer module is being displayed on the left side of the screen. If you grab the Sonar volume slider and move it, you'll see the corresponding Aria slider move also, as you know.

--Why not just bite the bullet and use those controls in Sonar. One move for volume, another for pan, and your Aria mixer is set the way you want. It's really just a matter of grabbing one set of controls as opposed to the other, and the results are the same. You can still go ahead and do all the detailed work you like to do with the Aria mixer.

And of course, as Fred points out, this is all just the basic set up for a project. The actual playing of the instruments involves using MIDI controllers like cc1 for volume, and all of that is data you record in the tracks - that's all separate from the question you have.

I suggest you try what I've said here. It really is straight-forward, doesn't take more time, and still keeps your project Aria-oriented the way you want.

Randy

[Haydn]

In Track View you'll need to set it up so you can see the volume and pan columns. Then right click on the volume (or pan) and click disabled. When it's disabled you'll see parenthesis around the number - Example: (100)

I'm doing this from memory at work so I'm not sure if it's totally correct.

Jim

[rbowser-]

Hi, Jim - Unfortunately, that doesn't do it. We'd already checked that out - when you right click on a MIDI fader like you're suggesting, there is a "disable" choice, but it doesn't change the fader's connection to Aria. I just now checked it again to make sure I was accurate. I think that could be about using remote control.

Am I dreaming it, or wasn't this recently discussed and answered in one of our Tech Forums?---

Randy

[Michael_uk]

Hey, Michael and Fred - I just got through responding to your question posted at Sonar. In case you see posts here at Garritan first, here's a copy of what I just now posted over there: .....

Hello Randy,

Thanks for calling in over at Cakewalk and replying. Much appreciate your help as always. Will call in there and reply.

[Michael_uk]

In Track View you'll need to set it up so you can see the volume and pan columns. Then right click on the volume (or pan) and click disabled. When it's disabled you'll see parenthesis around the number - Example: (100)

I'm doing this from memory at work so I'm not sure if it's totally correct.

Jim
Hello Jim,

Thanks for calling back and explaining. I appreciate your help with this.


Hi, Jim - Unfortunately, that doesn't do it. We'd already checked that out - when you right click on a MIDI fader like you're suggesting, there is a "disable" choice, but it doesn't change the fader's connection to Aria. I just now checked it again to make sure I was accurate. I think that could be about using remote control.

Am I dreaming it, or wasn't this recently discussed and answered in one of our Tech Forums?---

Randy

ROFL

Hey it works for me. It did it. )(~

I just tried Jim's suggestion, ie dragged the track's border to the right so the volume and pan were showing. Then I right clicked on each one and at the bottom of the list that opened there were:

Remote Control
Disable Remote Control
Disable Control

I just selected 'Disable Control' and voila .. I can now mix using Aria's sliders for that track.

Wonderful. :D

[rbowser-]

Hi, Michael:

"...I just tried Jim's suggestion, ie dragged the track's border to the right so the volume and pan were showing. Then I right clicked on each one and at the bottom of the list that opened there were:

Remote Control
Disable Remote Control
Disable Control

I just selected 'Disable Control' and voila .. I can now mix using Aria's sliders for that track..."

---How VERY odd! - That does nothing for me. This post made me think maybe I was dreaming of the test I did yesterday, so I did it again. Still nothing.

I'm running Sonar version 8.3.1.372.

HEY--Maybe we're using different versions of Aria, Michael. I'm using the new one, version 1.02 that has the Ensemble browser in the top left corner, and has the left-right increment arrows on each mixer slot for loading instruments. That's the current one with the recent JABB upgrade.

Do you have an earlier version? If so - looks like we've found something that can hopefully be fixed again in the new version.

If you Do have the same version of Aria - then it would be mysterious. "Disable Control" has no effect at all when I click it - I've never used that option for anything, I always thought it was for something else entirely.

HMmmmmmmm! :confused:

MAJOR EDIT: It wasn't making sense to me that I wasn't getting this to work. Even with the previous version of Aria, this interaction with Sonar should be the same.

USER ERROR!--- I DID make it work now. My mistake was after clicking "Disable Control" I was testing the Sonar fader to see if it'd really done its thing - I would move the fader, and That instantly re-engages the fader so the control is back on!

Lesson - For those who need this function, which are folks who for whatever reason don't want to have all their automation done inside Sonar - what cha gotta do is right click on the Sonar fader, click disable control, as described on this thread--then LEAVE IT ALONE! - At that point Sonar won't be in control of the MIDI volume level and pan - Aria will be.

WHew!---Glad it was all figured out!

Randy

[Michael_uk]

Hello Randy,

LOL

I just tried it again to make sure I wasn't dreaming too. ;)

Anyway, it's all still working .. Phew.


.....

I'm running Sonar version 8.3.1.372.


I have 8.5.2.222. I would have thought this feature would be the same for both our versions. It might explain it though.


.....

HEY--Maybe we're using different versions of Aria, Michael. I'm using the new one, version 1.02 that has the Ensemble browser in the top left corner, and has the left-right increment arrows on each mixer slot for loading instruments. That's the current one with the recent JABB upgrade.

Do you have an earlier version? If so - looks like we've found something that can hopefully be fixed again in the new version.

If you Do have the same version of Aria - then it would be mysterious. "Disable Control" has no effect at all when I click it - I've never used that option for anything, I always thought it was for something else entirely.

HMmmmmmmm! :confused:

Randy

It does seem that we have the same version of Aria. This version also has the 'Ensemble' browser and the little increment arrows as you describe.

I might have another explanation for this mystery.

In my working example here, I have just one track in Sonar assigned to an instance of Aria. In Aria I have loaded 7 instruments (drum kit pieces). This means that I set the overall volume of the kit in Sonar's track then mix the kit in Aria.

When I tried disabling another track in Sonar assigned to a second instance of Aria it didn't work. Then I realised that the instruments loaded in the second instance of Aria also had their individual tracks in Sonar ie .. say 8 instruments in Aria with corresponding 8 tracks in Sonar. In order to use Aria's mixer for this second instance of the player, I had to go through every (all 8) corresponding tracks in Sonar and click the 'Disable Control'

I would prefer to use Sonar's sliders for the rest of the score and work the way you would. It was just for that particular instance of Aria I wanted to use Aria's mixer.

So, all the tracks in Sonar corresponding with instruments loaded in an instance of Aria would need to have 'Disable Control' selected and not just one of them.

Maybe you already tried that. If so then the mystery deepens.

[rbowser-]

Ha! Michael, we were writing at the same time. I just now edited my post - It works just fine. My mistake was TESTING it by moving the Sonar slider to prove to myself if it no longer moved the Aria slider---but one should not do that. Moving the Sonar slider re-engages control!

Isn't it nice when something actually gets figured out?! Yeah! hehe.

Glad you got what you needed, Michael.

Randy

[Michael_uk]

Ha! Michael, we were writing at the same time. I just now edited my post - It works just fine. My mistake was TESTING it by moving the Sonar slider to prove to myself if it no longer moved the Aria slider---but one should not do that. Moving the Sonar slider re-engages control!

Isn't it nice when something actually gets figured out?! Yeah! hehe.

Glad you got what you needed, Michael.

RandyAhhh ..... I discovered that too.

After adjusting Aria's sliders, I then nudged Sonar's track slider to adjust the overall volume and it re-enabled Sonar's control over the Aria Player.

Yes .. it really is satisfying when something is resolved. Great. :)

[Haydn]

Glad you figured out how to disable the volume. I don't think I ever moved the fader in Sonar after disabling. I've been doing the disable since GPO1. The only time I disable the volume/pan is with the Garritan libraries.

Jim

[L.A.soundtrack]

Gentlemen,

I have been having the same problem with Garritan's JABB3. And Garritan actually pointed me to this posting. I just purchased JABB3 (my first Garritan purchase) and every time I stop playback, no more sound comes from that track/VST. I have tried to do the right clicking on the Sonar 8.5.3 (Producer) slider and checking 'Disable Remote Control', but it's dulled out. The other two choices are 'Remote Control' and 'Disable Control (those are a solid font for choosing). I tried the other two options, but nothing fixes the issue.

What am I doing wrong? I've read through the posts here, and it seems like there's two different issues being discussed, no sound, and mixing with ARIA. Can you please tell me what steps to take to correct the sound from disappearing? What is the proper way for me to have the sounds from Garritan's JABB3 and ARIA stay active? So glad I found you folks. I thought I was installing the product all wrong or something.

Thank you for your time.

[rbowser-]

Hi, L.A. soundtrack - Fortunately, there's a very simple solution to your problem. It's the #1 stumbling block for new Garritan users when they try to use a Garritan library in Sonar.

In the project settings, on the MIDI tab, there's a a default setting - "Zero controllers"---it re-sets all controllers to zero every time you stop playback. For Garritan instruments, you need that default UN-checked. Logical - The instruments use CC1 for volume control. You stop playback as you work--Sonar is turning CC1 back to zero, and the result is no sound.

The only way to work with Garritan in Sonar is to un-do that default.

AND that implies that you Must use lots of CC1 in your tracks to make those instruments live and breathe. Now with this info, you can do just that.

Randy B.

[Tom_Davis]

How do you keep the Aria mixer from re-setting to zero if all you are using with it is Finale 2010? No Cubase, no Sonar - just the notation program?

[Basstone]

The JABB 3 Aria player "Mixer Window Strip-15 "--set to MIDI Ch.1"
erroneously receives MIDI ch.15 "EFX SEND" controller data from a different track in Sonar 8.5.3 that is set to MIDI ch.15.
Any MIDI ch.15 cc-91 data is sent out to the Aria "Mixer Strip 15" irregardless of what Strip 15's MIDI channel is set to.
Hope to here of a fix. This is quite limiting and
may lead to :wow:
Anyone else have this issue with.

[Basstone]

After further trials it seems that the Aria JABB 3 mixer receives controller 91(EFX SEND) data
based on what mixer strip its is. "Not" the MIDI channel it is assignment and set to.
Hope there's is a fix soon.

[rbowser-]

Basstone - I'm wondering if maybe you're referring to how in Aria, if you use the built in reverb via the sends on the mixer, all of the effected (wet) signals come out of stereo pair one. I think it's still like that, it was in the first Aria. If you have reverb sends being used on all 16 instruments in a full loaded Aria, their summed wet signals come out of that first channel - and that's why people are recommended to not use the first slot for an instrument.

I'm not positive that's still the case since I don't use the built in reverb, but instead pipe dry tracks into Sonar where I apply reverb in the mixer there.

I couldn't quite follow your posts, and that thought occurred to me, so wanted to run it by.

Randy B.

[Michael_uk]

Hello Basstone and welcome to our forums,

I also have Sonar 8.5.3 and I find everything works absolutely good here. I just match Sonar's tracks MIDI out to the instruments I want in Aria's slots ie Sonar track 1 = MIDI out Ch.1 = Aria Slot 1 or whatever and everything is absolutely fine.

Like Randy, I disable Aria's 'Stereo Stage' and 'Ambience' and use other tools in Sonar. It would be interesting if you could try this and see if the MIDI channel settings then match up.

I'll also try and replicate the problem here by enabling Aria's controls and see what happens. I'll post back with what happens.

[Basstone]

Hi Michael,
to reproduce the issue I'm talking about, try this.

1. In Sonar, create a "New" normal project.

2. Insert Soft Synth -- Garritan > ARIA player vst.

3. Set the Aria mixer "Strip 15" to MIDI channel 1 (keep this ARIA window visible).

4. In Sonar, set any tracks output to the "ARIA PLAYER channel 15".

5. In the Sonar track that is set to output ARIA MIDI ch.15 -- drag it's "Rev" (reverb send) track controller.

***notice the "ARIA" mixer strip 15 "Send knob" reacts even though that "ARIA" strip 15 is set to receive on MIDI channel 1.

I believe this is an oversight that will cause much confusion.

Any MIDI file that contains embedded cc-91 data will produce this crosstalk issue.

Maybe this is a "Known Issue" and will be fixed in an "ARIA" update.


Were you able to reproduce this cc-91 crosstalk condition on your system?

[pascalM]

Maybe this is a "Known Issue" and will be fixed in an "ARIA" update.

Yes this is a known issue.. but I can't tell / don't know when/if it will be fixed.

[rbowser-]

Ah--Took me awhile to reproduce what you're talking about, but I see now. Yes, Sonar's MIDI reverb send control is ignoring Aria's MIDI channels, and always associating the MIDI channel number with the 16 slots in Aria, regardless of what channel they're on.

Never noticed - I probably haven't used MIDI reverb control in 5 years or so, relying totally on audio reverb in Sonar, hence the way this problem has been invisible to me.

Interesting--Glad I finally see what you mean, but it's too bad that glitch is in there.

Randy

[Basstone]

Hello rbrowser-,
I've tested this with the ARIA stand-alone player and
found the same condition occurs when sending MIDI data cc-91 from an
"external" hardware keyboard controller.

Simply put "the ARIA Player" channelizes cc-91 to
it's mixer strips 1-16. NOT MIDI channels 1-16.

The sad work around is to "delete" all the MIDI cc-91 events
from your MIDI files and those you get from other people.
:wow:,
Basstone

[rbowser-]

Hi, Basstone - "...Simply put "the ARIA Player" channelizes cc-91 to
it's mixer strips 1-16. NOT MIDI channels 1-16..."

Right, I totally get you now, as per my last message. That's a good succinct way of describing this unwanted behavior.

You've made me aware that people are still using cc91. I understand there's a convenience to it, especially if one isn't primarily concerned with making produced recordings.

It's difficult to adapt to things that are different from the way we're accustomed to working, but I want to suggest that there's an up-side to this issue. We can get such better results using audio reverb units, especially convolution reverbs, and those are very available to us now. So though it's a work around and an adaptation for you, I suggest you start strapping reverbs on buses in Sonar and reaping the benefits of better sound than the built in MIDI reverbs.

But I totally agree that the Aria issue needs to be fixed. I know as a Beta tester that it is a huge, nightmarish proposition to make these things compatible with as many platforms as possible. There are always things slipping through the cracks.

Randy B.