It's time to vote for Orchestral Challenge #23!

[Tony Monaghan]

Entry 1 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry01_Chall23.mp3
Entry 2 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry02_Chall23.mp3
Entry 3 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry03_Chall23.mp3
Entry 4 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry04_Chall23.mp3
Entry 5 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry05_Chall23.mp3
Entry 6 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry06_Chall23.mp3
Entry 7 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry07_Chall23.mp3
Entry 8 - http://wizardwalk.com/duel2/Entry08_Chall23.mp3

[swinkler]

It's a shame we can't vote for more than one. Good work everyone.

Steve Winkler

[rbowser-]

Thanks much for getting the poll up, Tony!

Steve, there was at least round when we could cast multiple votes - and as I recall, it didn't work out so well. That's my recollection.

Hearty hats off to all 8 Forum members who devoted some time to this. We're all about music here, and it's wonderful to share what we do in General Discussion--Yaaaah! for these 8 dedicated, talented people.

Randy

[SeanHannifin]

Many thanks Tony!! :)

Congrats again to all those who entered! )(~

Yeah, we once did have a poll in which you could vote for as many as you wanted, but it caused a bunch of confusion. ~|

Oh, since the polls don't always close automatically, we should probably state when voting actually ends (even if the poll keeps going). How's April 27th sound? (That's 3 weeks.)

[rbowser-]

...we should probably state when voting actually ends (even if the poll keeps going). How's April 27th sound? (That's 3 weeks.)
Good, Sean, that sounds right to me.

Now let's all try to keep this poll visible and up there on the front page so more people are apt to take a listen and vote.

I don't know if it's a Firefox upgrade, or Windows update, but this time when I click the MP3 links, a new tab opens and the music plays with no downloading needed - It's nifty, just don't know how that changed came about.

Randy

[englishgent]

My! It's obvious that a great deal of time and effort has gone into these entries. Great job everyone!

[RichR]

These are most interesting. I am always amazed at how one simple melody can be heard and presented in so many different ways.

[GRB53]

I'm still very new to articulation but I was thinking we couldn't control strings vibrato with GPO4.
I can definitely hear it controlled in at least one of these pieces.

Thanks guys and nice job,
Randy

Edit: I just read up on vibrato and it appears that cc #17 can control vibrato but not to instruments recorded with vibrato. I can't seem to find any solo strings that allows this control though.

[RustyCrook]

Hi Everyone,

)(~)(~Congratulations to all the entrants! )(~)(~

It's so amazing to hear all the varied approaches to Randy's theme. Super job everyone! So it's back to listening for me as I hear something new each time I listen to the entries.

Ken

[RustyCrook]

I can't seem to find any solo strings that allows this control.

Welcome Randy!

Your ears don't deceive you. Several of these entries use the specialty Garritan products, the Gofriller Solo Cello and Stradivari Solo Violin. These products allow control of vibrato intensity and speed, as well as many other parameters.

As you've discovered, many GPO4 instruments allow vibrato control (page 73 in the GPO4 manual, PDF format), notably the winds. However, I believe that you are correct that the GPO4 string instruments do not have that capability.


Ken

[raweber]

Well, this was another toughie. I had to resort to my old standby - put all the files in a playlist and play them on repeat. Then eliminate the tracks one by one until there's only one left.

Good job, everyone. Maybe one of these days I'll go beyond voting and actually submit an entry. Maybe...

[pokeefe]

...
I don't know if it's a Firefox upgrade, or Windows update, but this time when I click the MP3 links, a new tab opens and the music plays with no downloading needed - It's nifty, just don't know how that changed came about.


I've wanted such a thing since I discovered the listening room.

I didn't get it automatically (What version of Firefox do you have?) but I found a FireFox plug-in called MediaPlayer Connectivity that does it, in case anybody is interested:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/446

Pat

[HongKongCV]

I wonder if this thread can be temp-stickied or something to keep it at the top until the voting is finished.

[RichR]

Just a bump to keep this on top. I hope this is alright to do since it is a voting challenge.

[rbowser-]

Absolutely great to keep this bumped to the top, Rich. Hong Kong has a good idea for this to be temporarily a Sticky, but not many of us have that power to set it up, I know I don't. So, if you or someone else doesn't keep it bumped, you can count on me for bumping it. Kerbump away, I say!

Randy

[wrayer]

Randy, the Moscow look becomes you...

or is that your Danile Boone imatation?

Bill

[rbowser-]

Randy, the Moscow look becomes you...

or is that your Danile Boone imatation?

Bill
Yeah, but what am I becoming??? OOOOOh noOooO!

Daniel Boone as a Cossack! :D

Randy

[rbowser-]

YOU---the person reading this--You need to help with the tie-breaker we have. As of the moment I'm writing this, two entries each have 7 votes.

Take a listen--See what you think! - Will it be contestant #1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7 who tickles your musical fancy best?

Liiiiiiiiiiiisten and vooooooooooote!

Randy B.

[Michael135]

^ What happened to entry #8? :P

My votes in.

[rbowser-]

^ What happened to entry #8? :P

My votes in.
HA! Good one, Michael - Maybe it was my sub-conscious guiding my typing, and it figured #8 didn't need any more help! :p

Randy

[pokeefe]

Liiiiiiiiiiiisten and vooooooooooote!
Randy B.

And don't be swayed by the current tally. My 2nd favorite currently has only 1 vote and I want to see that change.

Too bad the results couldn't be hidden for anybody that hasn't voted.

Pat

[Michael135]

The results ARE hidden for those who haven't voted.

[rbowser-]

Pat, I agree with you that the results shouldn't be visible until you've voted - that's the way poll usually work. Unfortunately, Michael, I test this out every time, hoping things have changed - but before I voted this time, last time, the time before - I could click on "see voting results" and see the tally.

Well anyway, hopefully more people will listen and just simply vote for the entry that grabs them the most.

Randy

[FLWrd]

And don't be swayed by the current tally. My 2nd favorite currently has only 1 vote and I want to see that change.

Too bad the results couldn't be hidden for anybody that hasn't voted.

Pat
On the other hand, I was torn (doesn't that sound dramatic!!) between two choices, and when I saw that one had 9 votes and the other 0, I quickly chose the underdog, because both makers did deserve at least a few votes in my opinion. Curiously enough, that choice still only has one vote at this moment...

[SeanHannifin]

I just vote randomly to give everyone an equal chance... *()

OK, maybe not, but I do tend to wait until the last minute... always a tough choice...

[Michael135]

Pat, I agree with you that the results shouldn't be visible until you've voted - that's the way poll usually work. Unfortunately, Michael, I test this out every time, hoping things have changed - but before I voted this time, last time, the time before - I could click on "see voting results" and see the tally.

Well anyway, hopefully more people will listen and just simply vote for the entry that grabs them the most.

Randy

Hmmm... I must have completely missed this, as I only saw the tally after I voted.

[englishgent]

If you're not logged in, you will see the tally straight away. If you are logged in, you will only see the tally after you vote, unless you click on the link to view results. It's tempting to do so to validate your opinion so you don't feel foolish choosing an entry that has no votes, but remember: It's a poll! It only works if you say what your favorite is! Even if you're the only one, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

[rbowser-]

"...you will only see the tally after you vote, unless you click on the link to view results..." That's right, Owen. Like I said in the earlier post, I've been checking the mechanics of that for several rounds now, hoping there's no way to click anything to see results before you vote, but it's always like this - results available. OH well.

I was especially excited to hear these entries since I put together the little theme they're based on. It was a great moment when my wife Kate and I listened to all of them, loving things about all of the entries. A day or two later I made my choice, knowing even as I cast my vote that I'd rather just say, "HEY GUEss what? You're all winners!"--since that's the actual case.

Randy

[boulifb]

Was this a contest?
What was the subject of this contest?
When did the contest start?

[rbowser-]

Hello, boulifb

Here's the thread with all the info -

Challenge 23 Details (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70641)

We do these things once in awhile. There's no monetary reward, but it's a great community-spirit project. Go look through the thread and you'll get up-to-date.

Randy B.

[TinPanAlley]

This is a stupid question but how do I vote?

[rbowser-]

I'm looking at the poll the way it looks after one has voted, so I can't see the pre-voting screen again, but as I recall, there are boxes next to each entry - check off the one you want. We're talking about the screen at the very top of this thread--See that and the tick boxes?

Randy

[TinPanAlley]

Disregard the previous fortune cookie. When I signed in to post the question the voting box then appeared on the first page of this thread. I never sign in unless I am going to post a question.

Thanks to any who may have posted an answer while I was posting this.

Tom

[rbowser-]

Ah, I see, Tom. You don't like to use cookies perhaps? I stay permanently signed-in so I have fast easy access and so I can maintain the auto-email alerts to any thread I've looked at. I'd forgotten, but of course it makes sense, that the voting wouldn't be available to a "guest."

Randy

[TinPanAlley]

How do you stay logged in?

Tom

[rbowser-]

How do you stay logged in?

Tom
Hi, Tom - I Log In and don't Log Out. I generally stay logged in for months at a time.

But when I first joined the Forum, there was an issue I didn't understand at the time, which involved my computer's security settings. I had them set to such a high level of security that cookies weren't being kept for any of my regular, trusted sites. Once I changed that, the permanently logged-on state worked.

If you don't have auto-email alerts set up, I find those the best way to keep in touch with what's going on. That's in your profile settings - you can have it set so that you automatically subscribe to all threads you read and participate in. I like that, so I know when there's new conversation to read and maybe respond to. It's set so that you won't get more emails about the thread if you don't use the link and visit the thread.

Randy

[TinPanAlley]

Thanks again for your time, Randy. When you say you never log out, does this mean that you leave your computer on all the time? I never knowingly log out of the Garritan forum, but I only fire up my computer when I'm going to use it. Then each time I want to post something, the forum asks me to log in.

Sorry to be so ignorant, but Will Rogers said "Everyone is ignorant - just on different subjects".

Thanks,

Tom

[rbowser-]

Hi, Tom - That Will Rogers quote is so excellent. It reminds me about a thread awhile back here on the Forum, when I used the word "ignorant" in its true meaning, as in "He was ignorant of the fact that a piano had just broken loose from a cable 10 stories above him and was about to flatten him on the sidewalk like Wile E. Coyote in a Road Runner Cartoon." But someone assumed I meant it in a negative way, like, "Jane, you ignorant sl&t."

ANYway - there is no magic formula I know of, Tom, to stay logged on here. All I do is log on, and then I'm never asked to log on until I have to - like when I've looked at the forum from a different computer, logged in there - that makes my status logged off on this computer.

That's why I mentioned in my last post that when I first started using the forum I was being logged out all the time, sometimes I couldn't log back in - I went to my computers Control Panel, looked at Network and Sharing Center then Internet Properties. Try looking there and experimenting with the various settings. Make Gary's Forum a trusted site for one thing, and set the security low for it.

Randy

[FLWrd]

Thanks again for your time, Randy. When you say you never log out, does this mean that you leave your computer on all the time? I never knowingly log out of the Garritan forum, but I only fire up my computer when I'm going to use it. Then each time I want to post something, the forum asks me to log in.
It's quite simple. Next to the user name and password is a little check box named "Remember me". If you check it, then you'll be recognized the next time you access the site. You do however need to enable cookie saving between sessions in your browser. If your browser deletes the cookies, or you set them by default to allow-for-session, the site won't recognize you.

[rbowser-]

It's quite simple. Next to the user name and password is a little check box named "Remember me". If you check it, then you'll be recognized the next time you access the site. You do however need to enable cookie saving between sessions in your browser. If your browser deletes the cookies, or you set them by default to allow-for-session, the site won't recognize you.
Thanks, Theo!--Details details, I should've mentioned that wee little "remember me" box earlier, a case of me taking too much for granted. One indeed needs to use that. I was focused on the cookie problem, because if cookies aren't being used on a machine, or are restricted, you're not going to be able to stay logged in.

Thanks again--Hopefully this thread will be useful to other people with the same question as Tom.

Randy

[dominick]

Always a tough decision!

[TinPanAlley]

Thanks guys. I just checked the little "Remember me" box. If that does it I won't mess with the security business. I'm a little afraid to tinker with security in light of someone's experience noted in one thread of the forum. Gonna shut down the computer and see if I come up logged-in.

Tom

[TinPanAlley]

Hooray! I came up logged-in. Life is good!

Thanks for the help.

Tom



Mark Twain on Wagner's music - "It's not as bad as it sounds".

[rbowser-]

Ker BUMP!

I think we still have about a week to go before the polling is over. So if you haven't already, take a listen to what your fellow Garritanites have come up with. You'll find it inspiring to hear all this creativity bursting out of the seams of this one thread!

Randy B.

[Michael135]

I see we have a tie on the same two I was having a hard time picking between... will be interesting to see the results of this.

[rbowser-]

Dashing to the finish line - we need a tie-breaking vote or two, or three, or---

Let's get out the vote!

Randy

[FLWrd]

I noticed that there is at least one entry that didn't get a vote from its maker. I know because I cast the single vote. So there still are people out there who didn't vote...

[pokeefe]

I noticed that there is at least one entry that didn't get a vote from its maker. I know because I cast the single vote. So there still are people out there who didn't vote...


Maybe the maker voted for one he/she liked better. :) I've been known to do such things. (In fact, had I submitted an entry, I almost certainly would have voted for another. Some of these are VERY GOOD - much better that I would have done.)

Pat

[rbowser-]

Thank you, whoever added a new vote recently - It was a tie-breaking vote. Now, in the little bit of time left for this Challenge round, let's see what happens next!

Randy

[Michael135]

Aww... my favorite is losing. :(

[wrayer]

Aww... my favorite is losing. :(

So is mine, but it is fun to watch. There is some good musc here.

[HongKongCV]

I noticed that there is at least one entry that didn't get a vote from its maker. I know because I cast the single vote. So there still are people out there who didn't vote...

Speaking as a contestant, I haven't voted for mine. My goal this competition was to get one vote from someone besides myself, and I accomplished that. My overall tally doesn't matter... the fact that somebody NOT ME voted for mine does. It means I'm getting better.

I'm betting that other entrants have similar attitudes.

[pokeefe]

My goal this competition was to get one vote from someone besides myself, and I accomplished that. My overall tally doesn't matter...

My 2nd favorite has only one vote. For all anybody knows it could be everybody's 2nd favorite. That's a problem with competitions like this ... especially since there is no such thing as best.

Pat

[RichR]

I believe this is the last day for voting, so get out and vote!

[Michael135]

Assuming it ends today, looks like we have a winner.

[RichR]

I see a tie. Hmmmm

[wrayer]

I say we flip Randy and if he comes up heads...

[SeanHannifin]

By the end of the day yesterday, the votes were 1, 2, 1, 4, 4, 11, 1, 10... looks like someone did a post-deadline vote to tie it up and confuse us all. Thanks a lot!

If Michael135 can confirm that #6 had 11 and #8 had 10 (since he posted "looks like we have a winner" after the deadline), we could give victory to #6...

Or if there's too much dispute about when that last vote came in, we could treat it like a tie...

[RichR]

Well, at 11:00 pm EST it was not a tie and #6 had 11 and #8 had 10. But I don't know at what time zone the competition ended. Everything keeps going in circles (around and around and lets hope she don't stop :) ).

[FLWrd]

I think Randy said that it was until the day ended in your time zone, which makes it possible someone in Hawaii can vote 22 hours later than someone in Tokyo. But it might just show that both entries are good. Perhaps we need a tie-break: both submitters have submit a new work on the same theme within 24 hours, and that continues until one of them has an advantage of 2 points over the other or reaches 21 points. Or am I confusing it with some kind of sport?

[Michael135]

#6 had 11 and #8 had 10 when I posted.

[SeanHannifin]

#6 had 11 and #8 had 10 when I posted.

And Michael posted after the deadline even in Hawaii (see time stamp), so I'd say #6 has won, unless there are any denials / complaints, in which case we could... have a forum fight! :n: No, no, in which case we could let Randy be the judge, as he was the challenge setter this round...

[rbowser-]

Instead of following Bill's idea to flip me, I say we go with Sean's determination that #6 had the most votes when the voting ended.

This has happened several times - The contest is over, but people still vote because the poll is left running, and it's not clear when the voting is supposed to end.

But that's OK - I saw for myself that #6 had the most votes. I would've been happy for Any of these entries to win, but #6 is the one that got my vote, so I'm glad about that.

It was one of the most wonderful things I've ever been through on this Forum, this Challenge. Maybe because it'd been delayed for so long and there was a freshness to it. But all I know is that it was especially moving to me to hear everyone's pieces based on the little theme I composed for this. I admired things in every single entry. THANK YOU all for putting your hearts into what you put together for this.

Now, of course we all look forward to hearing who all 8 of you are. I hope it's not like some Challenges where some entrants never reveal themselves. Please step forward and proudly call out your names!

Randy B.

[Michael135]

Yes, and lets get started with the next one soon. ;)

[RichR]

I seem to never attract many voters in these challenges but I do enjoy working on them. I see that after all was said and down that someone (besides myself) voted on my entry.

I am always under the belief that the piece I write is the best. If I at least didn't think so, then what's the point of writing it? I do listen to all the challenge entries and marvel at them. Isn't it wonderful how even after given the exact same material, we can come up with so many different and musical versions. #6 and #8 had my envious attention, but I enjoyed all the presentations.

Oh, before I forget, I did entry #3. My impressions on listening to Randy's theme was some mood music ala Mancini style. I orchestrated it to have reminiscence of looking out a rain dropped window at a country scene in deep contemplation. I hope that came across somewhat.

Thanks again, Randy, for providing an interesting melody.

[rbowser-]

...I did entry #3. My impressions on listening to Randy's theme was some mood music ala Mancini style. I orchestrated it to have reminiscence of looking out a rain dropped window at a country scene in deep contemplation. I hope that came across somewhat.

Thanks again, Randy, for providing an interesting melody.

Applause to you, Rich. I listened to your piece again just now, and the scene you describe in this post fits what I head again perfectly.

It's a wonderful Mancini-esque piece, and I really liked the chords and voicings you chose to accompany the melody. The arrangement is seamless, sophisticated, and flows through the air very pleasantly. I find it excellent work.

Thanks for letting us know who to applaud for #3. I'm sure we all have been enjoying it very much.

Randy

[TinPanAlley]

As a new member, this was my first challenge. As a matter of fact, this was the first time I have tried anything of the sort. I was more than pleased at getting at least a few votes. Randy's theme is superb, as a matter of fact I can't get the darn thing out of my head.

Thanks to all responsible for conducting the challenge, and thanks to those brave souls who gave me a vote.

Tom - Entry #4

[rbowser-]

As a new member, this was my first challenge. As a matter of fact, this was the first time I have tried anything of the sort...
Tom - Entry #4
And now it's time to applaud You, Tom -and for several reasons. Congrats on rolling up your sleeves and joining in on this, and also for trying something different for yourself. I also applaud the musical ideas in your entry.

Just now I listened to your piece again, and enjoyed its delicate, classical nature. The counter melodies are very musical and effective.

The brevity of your piece may have been one thing that moved people to cast their votes elsewhere. Your piece could have been extended, perhaps with a new second section based on the melody. I'm only hypothesizing though.

Allow me a few notes about technical things which do interfere with what you actually composed:

--Your recording needs more reverb. It has an unreal, dry sound to it. I think perhaps it was done in a notation program where control of those finishing touches can be more difficult than in a sequencer.

--Again because I think this is from a notation program, the notes, most noticeably the strings, have a tendency to have the same dynamic value from note on to note off. More expressive work with volume fluctuation would make the results be more natural.

--The balance of your mix is off, so that the counter melodies have more prominence than the melody. If the tracks were mixed just the opposite from what you have, then we would know what the melody is supposed to be, and your counter parts would be in their proper position sonically. In the mix you have here, everything has equal importance - they're at the same volume, so what we're supposed to hear as the lead isn't noticed very well.

--Structurally, you resolved the phrase at the end of every repetition rather than suspending it in some way. If you didn't resolve the phrase, it would have more forward momentum rather than the sound of constantly coming to a conclusion, and then repeating itself.

I hope at least some of those observations are helpful to you.

THANK you for joining in!

Randy B.

[Royced57]

I was number 7. Managed to get 1 vote - not mine, BTW.

I'm consoling myself by imagining that I was everyone's second choice. A guy can dream, can't he!?

Was great fun and enjoyed all of the entries. Have to say that the two entries with the most votes were very, very good.

Good work everyone.

[wrayer]

I really would have liked to see Randy flipped, but alas it was not to be...

I will claim number 5 as my entry. I enjoyed working this one out and took the theme as an orchestral excerpt.

These challenges keep my creativity tuned.

Thanks Randy and Congratulations to all the other wonderful entrants - great music comes from great minds and we have plenty of those on our Forum.

Thanks all,
Bill

[rbowser-]

This is wonderful to finally have names attached to the entries.

Royce, your version is probably the most poignant of the orchestrations. I enjoyed it very much again just now when I clicked to refresh my memory.

Bill, your beautiful orchestral arrangement is very effective, I felt a nice warm wave again as I took another listen to your piece.

Both of you did a nice job of suspending the arrangement at the end of of some of the melody cycles, worked great for both of you. And you both came up with original, very creative variations on the theme that distinguished your entries.

You aren't the only two, but I feel that there's a sticky spot in the melody, in the area of measures 6 and 7 of the melody line. Things don't move very gracefully through those spots in both of your renditions. It's apparently a tricky turn in my theme that I didn't anticipate. I felt it was a difficulty for everyone that wasn't quite satisfactorily worked out - I think we can say it's a fault of the material I presented. Or at least it was a trickier spot than I realized before hearing these. It's a matter of voice leading - on those measures, I'm wanting to hear a more interesting harmonization, but in that spot - it's actually in measure 7, but measure 6 can be involved since it leads to 7 -I feel both of your versions weren't moving forward like they could have.

BUT I haven't tried to orchestrate that theme - I'm not at all confident I could do something any more effective. It's just a point about this theme and your adaptations that I wanted to comment on.

Very pretty work, both of you.

Randy

[pokeefe]

I was number 7. ...
I'm consoling myself by imagining that I was everyone's second choice.

This whole contest really boiled down to to the personal tastes of the voters as much as (or more than) the abilities of the contestants. #7 was my second choice. But I don't particularly like the theme-and-variations (or theme plus various counter-themes) form very much. Your second subject was good so I was a bit disappointed that returned so often to the original theme rather than using it as basis for another subject, developing fragments of the original theme, etc. Again, just my personal taste.

Pat

[FLWrd]

Well, #7, you actually were my third choice ;). But the hard choice was between nr 1 and nr 8. I expected everyone to vote for #8, and I really liked what composer #1 did, except for the sound. #8's sound is absolutely fantastic, but I have a soft spot for chamber orchestral variations, and I'm glad I voted for it, because it would have been a real shame if any entry would have ended with 0 votes, because I think they were all worthwhile contestants.

For me there is no real "winner". Yes, the honor goes to #6 (if that's been agreed upon), but I sincerely respect the musical skills and diversity shown by the 8 entries. And once more a round of applause for Randy's theme. Bis!

PS Later, when I tried the theme again at the piano, I got the impression it sounds a bit like a Puccini aria, but that's not surprising given Randy's "musical" background!

[pokeefe]

I will claim number 5 as my entry ...
Bill
Another piece I really liked but would have liked it more if your returns to the original theme hadn't also been a return to original key. (I know - now you'll tell me they weren't and I'll feel very stupid.)

I really like what you did when you were away from Randy's theme, particularly when you lifted that little 3 note rising motif from his theme and started to play with it about 1 minute into the piece. I wish you had could have had time to do more with it.

I also really liked the coda - your last presentation/variation of the theme. I thought that was one of the best reworkings of the theme of all of the contest entries.

(Now if I could only apply a similar analysis to my own works! :()

Pat

[Royced57]

I think next time I'll take more liberties with the melody. I stuck "close to home" because of this sentence in Randy's challenge post.


But whatever you do, part of what we'll be listening for is a distinctly recognizable rendition of the original melody.
Thanks for the feedback all. I'm probably an oddball here as I have no formal composition training at all. I did Music Theory 101 in College... I compose all of my work by improvisation at the keyboard and edit/arrange using Cakewalk Piano Roll View.

I can tell you this, I learned TONS about thematic development from entries 6 and 8. FWIW, 8 got my vote. Complex, moving and very, very well produced.

Once again, kudos to all.

[Royced57]

And Randy, I totally agree that there was a "hitch in my giddy-up" going from 6 to 7. No matter how I worked my little counter theme, it always seemed just a little clunky.

[pokeefe]

I stuck "close to home" because of this sentence in Randy's challenge post.

But whatever you do, part of what we'll be listening for is a distinctly recognizable rendition of the original melody.
Considering that I didn't submit an entry, I think you know how much weight to give my comments. :)

However, I think a precedence has been set for "a distinctly recognizable rendition of the original melody": Bach's Musical Offering and the idea presented by Frederick II. Some latitude would be allowed, I think. :)

Pat

[TinPanAlley]

Randy,

I just got back to my computer and read your very constructive comments. You are spot-on on every comment and I plan to go back and rework the piece as a training exercise using your suggestions.

It's probably time to come out of the closet and reveal the sham I am. Even though my musical background includes clarinet, oboe, and classical guitar, I now play only 5-string banjo. Though I do play some Bluegrass, my main bag is ragtime (ala Scott Joplin) and all the gay-nineties, tin-pan-alley, Geo. M. Cohan type stuff. My interest in MIDI generated music is just to work up interesting arrangements to play the banjo with (having an electronic band). Using GPO, I can have just a piano doing the left hand part while I play the RH part, or have a whole orchestra for accompaniment.

But I digress - again sincere thanks for the free lessons, Randy, and I will put them to use.

Tom

[HongKongCV]

For the record, I claim entry #1.

I figured that most people would, in one way or another, go with Randy's original observation that the piece was well-suited for a romantic number... so I decided to do something different. I chose a string quartet for my medium, and just tried to enjoy the interplay between instruments.

It was the first string quartet I've ever done, so basically I just had fun with the composition.

I went into this competition with the express goal of getting at least one person NOT MYSELF to vote for it... and I succeeded. So though I didn't win, I still won.

I had fun, and I'm looking forward to the next one.

[HongKongCV]

Thanks for the feedback all. I'm probably an oddball here as I have no formal composition training at all. I did Music Theory 101 in College... I compose all of my work by improvisation at the keyboard and edit/arrange using Cakewalk Piano Roll View.

I think most have some formal training, but I'm right in the boat with you, man. No formal training in composition, I've got books, this forum, and I'm learning as I go. I think I'm getting better at composing, but I still have a LOT to learn about using GPO to render a realistic sound.

And I'm working on it...

[rbowser-]

Re-joining this good discussion. Hope we hear from all the entrants--we await!

Flwrd - "...it sounds a bit like a Puccini aria..." Oh my! Flattery will get you everywhere! hehe. Nice, I like that a lot.

"...the honor goes to #6 (if that's been agreed upon)..." Definitely agreed upon. Sean's right about what the votes were at the cut off time, and I concurred, so there it is. If only we could get the poll turned off now!--I think another vote has also popped up since the closing.

Pat "pokeefe" - I'm really enjoying your commentaries. You're helping us see how good this event is for the Forum - we just gotta keep it up more steadily!

Royce - "...I think next time I'll take more liberties with the melody. I stuck "close to home" because of this sentence in Randy's challenge post.--
'But whatever you do, part of what we'll be listening for is a distinctly recognizable rendition of the original melody.'"

I'm sorry that wasn't more clear, Royce. I was quoting the original Challenge guidelines, but from your response, I see it could be made more clear. What we're saying is that at Some Point in your arrangement, there has to be a clear statement of the original theme. We can't be left wondering what the thematic material was. But that guideline wasn't meant to restrict the orchestrations - Any kind of development the arranger wants to introduce is fine. Complimentary B sections, bits of phrases, retrograde - anything is fair game, as it is whenever we write music. It wasn't meant to be a restriction.

Tom - Far too modest for you to describe yourself as a "sham." You're clearly a musician and a talented one at that. I'm glad this little event was a stretch for you, that's what we all need to do more often than we do- steeeetch. I'm glad my feedback seems helpful. It's a great idea to do another version as an exercise for yourself.

HongKong!--Your reply came in while I've been writing here - Round of applause on your entry! It was my wife, Kate's favorite entry because she found it so sweet, and she appreciated its simplicity. I like what you've done for the same reasons. It was a very effective choice to make it a string quartet piece.

Something I said earlier applies to your rendition also - You resolved the end of theme each time on its tonic so that it kept sounding like it was ending. When I wrote the theme, I wasn't picture the final note as being a resolution, but rather a bridge to a new section, or a repetition - in the latter case I was figuring that for a chord, the 5th would be a simple, good choice for having at least a bit of suspension before returning to the theme again.

Now and then I felt there were clashing notes, making your orchestration just a bit less "clean" than it could have been. But understand, I did enjoy your work very much.

I think I'm caught up - NOW, we still have more orchestrators to step forward to claim their pieces - Don't keep us in suspense.

Randy B.

[Michael135]

I still think that 8 should have won. :(

For me it was VERY close between voting for 6 and 8. I actually like the intro of 6 a lot more, however, there is certain point where it doesn't quite transition how it feels like it needs to. It was this 1 small thing that put me off from voting for it, as a transition that goes wrong leaves a rather bad feeling in the air so to speak IMO. It was SO close to being good, and the fact that it was so close but not quite making where I hoped it would go made it even worse for me than if it had been some bigger error. Listening to it again, I still wish there had been a little more of an orchestral build up at the end. It feels just a little empty to me, like it could use some strings or something.

That being said, I still think it's the best piece there. I voted for #8 only due to the very disappointing lack of orchestral build up that I was hoping so much to hear in # 6. For me at least, this gave #8 the very slight edge over #6, as both pieces are very good.

To who ever did #6, take this as the greatest compliment I can give you. I'm only THIS picky about pieces I really like. :p

[HongKongCV]

And I do want to apologize to everyone for casting the late vote for #8... I didn't realize the voting period had ended.

Last week wasn't my best. I spent most of it in Florida with my family and my very ill mother... who passed away last Tuesday. When I got back into town I realized I hadn't voted, so I jumped online real quick and voted.

My apologies to all.

I must say that, aside from my own, #8 was the one that I liked the most. Very nicely done, indeed.

[rbowser-]

Hong Kong - Please don't worry about voting too late. Yours isn't the only vote that came in late, because it doesn't say on the poll itself when it closes, the way it should, and so late votes are made innocently. The poll is still working in fact right now, which it shouldn't be. Anybody could still vote and make the outcome look different than it was at the official closing time. We're just a bit disorganized when it comes to all that.

I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your mother. Speaking for everyone who has lost their mother, I can say that it one of life's most challenging losses, and one most of us have to live through. Coming up is the national holiday when we can all pause to contemplate how incredibly important our mothers are, and how important all mothers everywhere are. My thoughts are with you, Hong Kong.

Michael, interesting approach to a wrap-up post following the closing of the Challenge - to go on at length why you don't think the winning entry should have been chosen, complete with sad blue icon. I'm surprised you consider that to be appropriate.

Are all the entries accounted for now--?---

Randy B.

[SeanHannifin]

And I do want to apologize to everyone for casting the late vote for #8... I didn't realize the voting period had ended.

Last week wasn't my best. I spent most of it in Florida with my family and my very ill mother... who passed away last Tuesday. When I got back into town I realized I hadn't voted, so I jumped online real quick and voted.

I'm so sorry to hear it, my condolences to you and your family.

[Michael135]

@ Randy,

I'm very picky about music that I like. I happened to really like both songs, therefore was overly picky about small nitpicky things. No disrespect meant to either artist by my nitpickings. I already love both pieces, so the small things that may not bug me as much in other stuff, really is noticeable. To have me nit pick a piece to death is the highest honer it can receive from me. ;)

[rbowser-]

I've written to the Forum members who have stepped forward to identify their entries - round of applause again to all of them - )(~ I haven't said anything about the two top vote-getters.

These two, #6 and #8 are both exciting, intricate works that are recorded so nicely that technical difficulties don't get in the way of our enjoyment.

They both feature intelligent use of the theme - it's clearly heard, but not over used. Both develop ideas springing from that theme in fresh, unique ways which obviously leap directly from the developed musical imaginations of the creators.

I had to vote for one of these two because I felt they did the most thoroughly interesting work with the theme. I gave myself a couple of days, and then having a fresh start one morning, I just asked myself, "Which one of these is carrying you along the most? Which one is engaging your heart and brain together in the way you most like music to do?" And for indescribable, unreportable reasons, the answer was that #6 was the one that did all that the most for me.

Bravo to both #6 and #8, and to the other six entries which each had much in them to command respect.

Well played, everyone!

Randy

[RustyCrook]

Hi Everyone,

My entry was #6.

Thanks to Randy for the melody and to everyone who took the time to listen to all the entries and vote! Based on all the wonderful and diverse entries, we each found something to sculpt and yet express it in a different way. It’s clear that hard work went into each and every entry. It’s also wonderful to have so many participants – I hope everyone will consider entering the future Challenges!

I’ve entered at least 10 prior Garritan Orchestration Challenges and my usual workflow was to compose in Finale, run out of time, and submit the audio generated by Finale. While I still ran out of time (and probably always will), this time I composed in Finale, exported the midi file, and then used Sonar to produce the audio file from the midi file. I’ve been trying to put all the very informative forum discussions on reverberation into practice. I still have a long way to go but at least I understand the issues and now I appreciate the impact that room ambience can have on the realism of the performance.

About my entry:

I’m the first to agree that my entry #6 is highly fragmented, probably due to my attempt to ease into the given melody. In fact, I don’t state the melody in its entirety until two minutes into the piece, or half-way through. In retrospect, my entry strikes me as more of a medley than a well developed piece with cohesiveness. I think other entries were far better than mine in this department. Nevertheless, I did have fun with some of the passages even though they are brief and underdeveloped. And, I actually did have a plan which incorporated the given melody in most sections.

For the opening cello solo, I used a fragment of the first bar of the given melody in retrograde and transposed to a minor key. The solos are played by the Garritan Gofriller Solo Cello and later joined by the Garritan Stradivarius Solo Violin – I think someone was inquiring about that aspect.

I had recently heard a section from Hans Zimmer’s score to the animated move, Madagascar, which served as my inspiration for this next section. The cut is called “Zooster’s Breakout” and one can find it on YouTube. I liked the excitement of the driving strings and wanted to try to get that sound.

The first three notes of the melody make their appearance at 1:11 in the woodwinds, arguably too briefly to be noticed. The timpani player was a bit overzealous throughout this performance – my apologies as I had boosted the volume up for one section but forgot to return it to its neutral position.

The staccato trumpets (1:15), teasing with the notes in the first bar of the given melody, are answered by the ascending quarter notes in the lower brass. The meter changes several times between ¾ and 2/4 in this section before settling into 4/4 for the horn passage.

The horns at 1:28 are playing a section based on the notes of bars four and five of the given melody. I used two horns from the regular GPO section and two horns from the Project SAM horn section (FH Solo 2, FH 1 Plr 1, SAM FH Plr 2, SAM FH Plr 3). In fact, I used both Garritan and SAM brass in each brass section except Tuba which was the SAM Tuba.

The next section (1:41) has the lower brass playing measures two and three of the given melody in retrograde to flourishes in the woodwinds.

Then at 2:00, we have the first statement of the given theme in its entirety, played by the flute and upper strings.

I really like the plaintive sound of the cello and English horn doubling at 2:34.

My inspiration for the finale section at 2:57 was the finale section of Stravinksy’s Firebird Suite in which the metronome marking is cut in half, effectively doubling all note values, creating a very majestic wall of sound.

As the winner of the Garritan Orchestration Challenge #23, it falls to me to set the melody for Challenge #24. I hope to post the new challenge material sometime this coming weekend, so please stay tuned!

Best regards,

Ken

Ken Weissman
(RustyCrook)

[HongKongCV]

Randy, Sean, thanks for your condolences. We'd known it was coming... pancreatic cancer. That doesn't make it any easier, but at least it didn't come as a surprise.

My goal for the next chalenge I enter is... TWO votes! (grin)

Rusty, looking forward to whatever your fertile mind can invent.

[wrayer]

Ken,
Nice job! The effort really shows. Now, if I weren't so lazy, I would do the same thing!

Best regards,
Bill

[AlanPerkins]

Congratulations Rusty!

[FLWrd]

For the record, I claim entry #1. ...
I went into this competition with the express goal of getting at least one person NOT MYSELF to vote for it... and I succeeded.
That was me. I had almost voted #8 (which would have made a tie in the end!), but yours was too charming to let go without at least one vote. I found the variation style very effective, though the sound was rather flat.

So congratulations from me, and it's a bit weird combination, but also my condolences.

[Michael135]

As the winner of the Garritan Orchestration Challenge #23, it falls to me to set the melody for Challenge #24. I hope to post the new challenge material sometime this coming weekend, so please stay tuned!

Best regards,

Ken

Ken Weissman
(RustyCrook)

I can't wait to hear what you come up with, and will hold you to your word about having it up by the weekend. :P

Now that I've got a better idea of how to use Finale and such, I can't wait to be a part of one of these. )(~

[rbowser-]

Ah ha - Ken "Rusty Crook" did #6. Loved your work, Ken - hey, I'm always loving your work, guess I'm a fan.

I want to thank you deeply for the detailed post you've put up for all of us to get a clear inside look at how you went about arranging your piece. It's very illuminating, and should be an inspiration. Thank you Much!

And FLWrd, I really admire your new post. I couldn't agree with you more that HongKong's piece, #1, has a very fetching charm to it. I'm glad you voted sincerely for his entry.

I'd say this has been an extremely successful revival of Sean's Orchestration Challenge.

Ken - don't keep us waiting too long for the next Challenge setting theme!

Randy

[RichR]

My congratulations to Ken as well. I did like your version but voted for my own :o.

I also like the explanations of your work on the piece. Those are useful insights.

Also to HongKongCV: My condolences as well. Though having the understanding of what was going on and then going through it, well that is still personally tough and I wish you and your family all the best.

[rbowser-]

Toooooooonnnyyyy!---we need the poll closed, please.

Randy

[Tony Monaghan]

Toooooooonnnyyyy!---we need the poll closed, please.

Randy

Can't seem to close the poll so I'm going to close the thread. Well done Rusty!

Next poll we'll set on a timer.