string example [Archive] - Northern Sound Source

Kobb

08-04-2001, 12:51 AM

Nice job Donnie.

I\'m just getting into sampling (expecting my Gigastudio system to arrive late next week) so perhaps others will be able to listen with more critical ears, but I thought it was great. I liked the arrangement; kind of reminded me of some of the moody Coplandesque cues from \"The Shawshank Redemption\".

Just curious... what library did you use?

[This message has been edited by Kobb (edited 08-04-2001).]

jose elith

08-04-2001, 01:33 AM

\"Adagio\" from Barber... what a great example for a great piece. For me the sound of the strings are very realistic. I think you are using the new gigastring from gary, because I believe you can\'t create some emulation of this kind with AO or miroslav.

KingIdiot

08-04-2001, 02:36 AM

Damn good Donnie.

Is that layering the new ensemble patches form DD on top of other strings (I\'m pretty anxious to hear those)? What reverb. The whole thing has a nice warmth...at some points too much for me...it might be the mp3 tho some of it sounds filtered....but still REALLY REALLY good...it might be that I\'m looking for something and not just listening ya know? PLus alot of it is soft playing.

freakin drummers....they aren\'t supposed to know anything about music http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

EDIT- the warmth comment above is just a preference of my own I like to here a little more bow in the louder parts... I don\'t think that affects how realistic the piece sounds tho. ITs pretty darned tootin\'

now the drummer comment....thats just habit from being a guitar player! ;P
------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 08-04-2001).]

08-04-2001, 03:04 AM

Stunning! Beautiful. If I had heard that on the radio I\'d never have guessed in a million years it was sampled; it was so expressive - a credit to your skills. (This is where we get to the bit where I confess to being a beginner at \'smoking out the samples\'). But I don\'t give a monkey\'s. When I listened to that MP3 I could \'see\' the orchestra.

I\'ve been reading a lot of posts here lately. I\'m a (former) guitarist who\'s just discovered the Ztar and therefore, at last, actually has a chance to \'play\' midi beyond the pitch-to-voltage paradigms.

I\'ve been amused by a lot of the hysterical \'goings on\' regarding the new \'giga\' strings. But it isn\'t a Coke versus Pepsi test. There\'s a lot of \"Hey, I studied at the Moscow Conservatoire, therefore my ears are too finely-honed to be fooled!\" spoiling what should be a cause for nothing but rejoice. I\'ve dreamed of playing other \'instruments\' on the guitar for more than twenty years and the Ztar now offers me that possibility.

I recently purchased a Korg Oasys card (which was quite nice) for the physical models but returned it \'toot sweet\' when I came across the gigasampler. (Yes, I know, I\'m having that \'giga\' rush). I don\'t expect to be able to play something even approaching that level of expression, but it\'s great to know that it can be done.

I just wanted to thank you for demonstrating what\'s possible with hard work and talent. (and yes, incidentally, I did study at a \'conservatoire\' for five years many moons ago. And while I could dream of what I heard in your MP3, I had to make do with a Yamaha CX5 (at least that\'s what I think it was called - the gigasampler of its day.)

I\'m in the market for some strings. Whatever it was that you used; I want them! It was a superb piece of advertising for the product, I\'m almost ready to call 1-800 and sign up right now.

You conducted that orchestra beautifully. Let\'s hear some more.

SCARBEE

08-04-2001, 03:49 AM

Very nice... could be the \"real\" thing. Is it a joke?

If not, I am very impressed with the dynamic \"breath\" of the strings - it has lots of emotions and suspense.

If this is sampled - we have gone very far.

Interesting thread!

Lets hear: what is this?

Thomas

Thomas_J

08-04-2001, 04:02 AM

Same as Scarbee here. If those are sampled strings we have reached our goal. However, I don\'t feel too confident honoring you quite yet, Donnie http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Tell us, is this a joke or is it actually a sequenced piece with samples from Gary\'s string library? All previous sequences I\'ve heard by you have been quantized. This clearly isn\'t... Smells fishy http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Anyway if that is your creation, I salute you.

Thomas

RICARDO BOTTICELLI

08-04-2001, 06:53 AM

i can\'t download the song.the link is broken?

Simon Ravn

08-04-2001, 08:26 AM

Donnie, nice try... but this is a real recording.... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif So I am sure you didn\'t need that much time to \'do it\' http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

IOComposer

08-04-2001, 10:58 AM

LOL!!
Donnie you are so FOS!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
There\'s NO WAY that is sampled!
-J

tomhartman

08-04-2001, 01:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Ok here is quick string example....I didn\'t have much time but it\'s pretty good I think.

Just curious to know two things.....

a. what sounds good/realistic?

b. what doesn\'t sound good /realistic?

Donnie

http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/Barber.mp3 (\"http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/Barber.mp3\") <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds very realistic, and well it should, since it is... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Kenn159

08-04-2001, 04:02 PM

Hey Z6 Im also a Ztar user .
We should talk.
My email is music2@ij.net

As far as the string example goes , Very impressive .
Give it up donnie is it real or sampled?

Damon

08-04-2001, 04:03 PM

Hey man, those strings sound horrible! To bright sounding and recorded way to close with the mics. Not warm enough!
...Just kiddin\' http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif That\'s definitely the real deal there. One of my favorite adagio string pieces as well. A classic moment in film used in Platoon as well. Good one Donnie.

Jamieh

08-04-2001, 04:46 PM

If that is a sting library, I\'ve got a blank check sitting right here to buy it. I\'m with the folks that say it has to be a real recording.

donnie

08-04-2001, 05:09 PM

Its the new DS Soundware Ultimate Mediocre String collection....only $230,999.00!!!

Ok, so you guys are smarter than I thought http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I just wanted to add some lightheartedness to the forum since there has been a lot of meaness lately....I just knew someone was going to come on and start bashing it...That would have been pretty funny hugh!

Now...can you guess the symphony?????? I\'ll give anyone half off a library if you can!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Donnie

Damon

08-04-2001, 05:12 PM

I would love to know what symphony. It\'s done beautiully. Could it be the Boston Symphony?

ursatz

08-04-2001, 06:28 PM

Ok, I\'m going to take a stab at it - Philadelphia/Ormandy?

Jamieh

08-04-2001, 06:30 PM

I don\'t think it is the Boston. I\'ll guess the London Symphony Orchestra. It is beautifully played and recorded whoever it is.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 08-04-2001).]

Kenn159

08-04-2001, 08:57 PM

I think that technology is to the point to where that real string mp3 example could be reproduced by a great string sample patch .

I think in order to produce that much expressiveness in that for instance building swelling portion , it seems to me that you would have to assign velocity to a continous controller like a breath controller or volume pedal and as you increase the velocity, with will use the example of a say a volume pedal ,you would be playing through several velocity layers[soft,soft medim,medium,medium loud and loud] and each layer would be crossfaded into the successive layer.

Also assign filtering to the same controller ,low velocity/half closed filter and high velocity open filter .

For attack time your primary string samples would have a slow attack and have a fast attack version on another dimension striggered by another controller.

just some ideas for expressive samples.

donnie

08-04-2001, 10:02 PM

Good guesses but not the one...I\'ll give you a hint...it\'s a symphony that has just recently (within 15 years) gained world wide recognition. Their conductor also can be seen with many European symphonies such as the London Philharmonic.....Any more guesses?

Donnie

tomhartman

08-04-2001, 11:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by IOComposer:
LOL!!
Donnie you are so FOS!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
There\'s NO WAY that is sampled!
-J<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unable to download the link...but from the comments it sounds like a trick... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Chris Beck

08-04-2001, 11:27 PM

The link doesn\'t work for me. Looks like dssoundware is down right now.

I want to join the party... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif
- Chris

IOComposer

08-04-2001, 11:34 PM

It\'s working for me. Chris, send me an email if it\'s ok and I\'ll send it to you.
-J
(jscott@dramaticmusic.com)

ursatz

08-04-2001, 11:35 PM

Interesting experiment, Donnie... Are you trying to show us how far we still have to go before we could really fool anybody?

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

IOComposer

08-04-2001, 11:40 PM

Memphis.
-J

SCARBEE

08-05-2001, 12:53 AM

Good One Donnie! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

What about Chicago?

Thomas

killerbobjr

08-05-2001, 04:08 AM

Baltimore Symphony Orchestra, David Zinman conducting.

I\'ll take the Percussion Bundle for $350 please. ;-)

carlgt1

08-05-2001, 08:21 AM

A bit off-topic, but ZTar guys, is there a good ZTar forum you go to? I\'m interested in it but plunking down $2K for a mysterious controller sounds scary. I\'ve been using the Yamaha G50 (older Axon technology but I like it better than an Axon AX100 I owned) with a hex pickup on my MusicMan gtr & a Godin ACS ac/el classical gtr with built-in hex pickup. It\'s OK, but the ZTar looks interesting.

wazoo

08-05-2001, 09:27 AM

tomhartman

08-05-2001, 01:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by wazoo:
OK Donnie - so no GIGA user was fooled with your \"test\" of our listening. This is testament to the audience up here.

Now that you have created this challenge - and this whole thing started with some \'questionable\' GigaString demos - now that you have \'calibrated\' the audience, let\'s see this piece of music created entirely with GigaStrings!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that ....is a good suggestion...at least a snippet of it would be pretty definitive. Gary?

donnie

08-05-2001, 01:57 PM

Killerbob and Thomas,

Both good guesses but not it....Research who has been conducting the London Sym. that past couple years quite often and then see where he is from...

Donnie

08-05-2001, 02:28 PM

Damon

08-05-2001, 02:50 PM

Could it be the Berlin Symphony Orchestra? Andre Previn was born in Berlin. If not, I\'m guessing the Los Angeles Philarmonic.

[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 08-05-2001).]

Simon Ravn

08-05-2001, 04:30 PM

And this is probably more than 22...

Simon Ravn

08-05-2001, 04:38 PM

OK Donnie... I hope this is it: New York Philharmonic?

ursatz

08-05-2001, 05:32 PM

Do I get another guess? Urgh, I knew it couldn\'t be Philadelphia as soon as I hit the Submit button.

Gothenberg, maybe?

donnie

08-05-2001, 05:51 PM

Ok here\'s another hint...it\'s a US. Symphony in the middle part of America. And no, it\'s not the Memphis Symphony or Chicago either....

Donnie

Kenn159

08-05-2001, 05:53 PM

OK Donnie - so no GIGA user was fooled with your \"test\" of our listening. This is testament to the audience up here.
Now that you have created this challenge - and this whole thing started with some \'questionable\' GigaString demos - now that you have \'calibrated\' the audience, let\'s see this piece of music created entirely with GigaStrings!

Great Idea Wazoo

For the time being while someone is preparing That piece with giga strings , I would like to challenge anybody here that knows of a great realistic Orchestral piece [real or sampled]to try and fool the listeners here.
Convert it to mp3 and post a link so we can listen and judge it.

08-05-2001, 06:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by carlgt1:
A bit off-topic, but ZTar guys, is there a good ZTar forum you go to? I\'m interested in it but plunking down $2K for a mysterious controller sounds scary. I\'ve been using the Yamaha G50 (older Axon technology but I like it better than an Axon AX100 I owned) with a hex pickup on my MusicMan gtr & a Godin ACS ac/el classical gtr with built-in hex pickup. It\'s OK, but the ZTar looks interesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you go to Yahoo\'s egroups and search for \'Ztar\' you\'ll find the Ztar group (a lot of helpful people there). Also try Harvey\'s (the creator) website at: http://catalog.com/starrlab/ (\"http://catalog.com/starrlab/\")

I haven\'t got mine yet (there is a famous and very frustrating waiting period because all of them are lovingly constructed by hand) but if you go to the group and ask nicely; if there\'s an owner in your area you might get a demo (that\'s what I did).

Honestly, it\'s not only interesting, it\'s a quantum leap over the competition - especially for two-handed tapping. But as you say, two grand (more like two-and-a-half really) is a lot to put on the table; Try it first, preferably with an experienced player who can show you the possibilities.

Sorry about the \'off-topic\' people. But seeing as I\'m here, how about some of you Garritan string beta people putting together an \'Adagio\' so that we can compare Donnie\'s ruse with the \'real\' thing :-)? I\'ve listened to the demos and think they sound damn good but $1,000 is not chump change. I think it would be interesting if we could compare three or four different Adagios (then we\'d really get a feel for how they sound). Of course, it\'s a lot of work but surely you owe it to Mr. Garritan for letting you play with his strings while the rest of us press our faces up against the shop window?

donnie

08-05-2001, 06:44 PM

Kenn,

Great idea and funny you should mention that....I am going to be doing that very thing in a day or two.....

Everyone get your ears ready!!!

Donnie

killerbobjr

08-05-2001, 07:22 PM

Well, how literal is the \"within 15 years gained world wide recognition?\"

The Principal Guest Conductor, Michael Tilson Thomas, currently heads the San Francisco Symphony which certainly has had renown for way more than 15 years. Plus, I could find no recordings with Thomas and the SFS for Barber; and no Barber for Richard Hickox, and recent past guest conductors Myung-Whun Chung and Kent Nagano.

Going in reverse and searching on recordings of Barber\'s Adagio brings up the possibility of the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, James Sedares conducting. I don\'t know about the worldwide recognition, but Sedares does appear frequently with the LSO. However, listening to the clip doesn\'t convince me -- too stylistically different from your MP3.

Then there\'s the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Neeme Jarvi conducting. While Jarvi does guest with the LSO, again, there\'s that world renown thing again -- the DSO has been around a while. Besides, the performance was a bit rushed in the sound clip, so no match again.

Then I come across the NZSO again, except Andrew Schenck conducting. Sneck doesn\'t seem to have a lot of LSO podium time, but I\'ll be damned if the audio clip isn\'t an close match stylistically. Hmmm . . .

As I look some more, Sneck does Barber again, this time with the LSO. Again, stylistically, it\'s very close.

-----

BUT, as I\'m about to upload my second guess, I see your new clue. Detroit is about as middle America as anything, so I\'ll go with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, Neeme Jarvi conducting. But I actually hope I\'m wrong -- I\'m so taken with the NZSO/Schneck version that I think I\'ll order it!

donnie

08-05-2001, 07:50 PM

Good guess again KillerBob but thats not it either....when I tell you guys your going to kick yourself.....think \"middle America\"

Donnie

ursatz

08-05-2001, 08:29 PM

Middle America? Let\'s see, is there an Omaha Philharmonic? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I have another guess that I\'m pretty confident of, but I\'ve already had two shots at it and failed....

08-05-2001, 09:43 PM

Is it the Utah Symphony Orchestra with fellow Scot, Stewart Robinson conducting?

08-05-2001, 09:46 PM

That\'s Stewart RobERTSON. Sorry.

killerbobjr

08-05-2001, 10:10 PM

Well, I give up. I hope you\'re not going to keep us in suspense too much longer. :-)

08-05-2001, 10:18 PM

How about Raymond Leppard and the Indianapolis Symphony orchestra?

donnie

08-05-2001, 10:28 PM

Very good guess Z6 but thats not it either.....

Ok, Ok, It\'s the Saint Louis Symphony under Leonard Slatkin....I told you that you would kick yourselves!

Donnie

Jamieh

08-06-2001, 01:53 AM

Cool, I think I need to pick up that recording of Adagio. It is one of my favorite pieces, but I don\'t have it on CD. Which CD did you grab that clip from Donnie?

killerbobjr

08-06-2001, 08:29 AM

Bah! That\'s a fair amount of misdirection in your \"15 years\" clue. I took it too literally. The SLSO is our second oldest symphony orchestra, Slatkin became the musical director in 1979, and they\'ve been nominated for Grammys every year since 1977, hardly an \"unrecognized\" orchestra before 1986.

I\'m going to put on my frowny face now and go sulk. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif <heh>

killerbobjr

08-06-2001, 08:40 AM

Okay, I\'m done sulking. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif It was actually kind of fun trying to figure this out. Maybe we should start a regular \"Guess the Music\" contest where we have to guess if it\'s live or sampled, and where the piece of music is from. Whaddya say folks?

MikeGraybill

08-09-2001, 12:49 AM

My guess is Dallas, I heard them perform the Adagio movement a few years ago, and it was stunning. Andrew Litton was conducting, but I\'m not sure to what degree he was involved with London. How old is the recording?

-Mike-

and yes, it does say something about how far samples have come in the last few years alone when it is entirley plausible that the recording could have been a well programmed redition. Nice try with the muting inbetween phrases, btw.

MikeGraybill

08-09-2001, 12:50 AM

Doh, okay... so that\'s what I get for not noticing \"page 2\" of the msgs. I like the \"guess the music\" idea though, sounds like fun

MikeGraybill

08-09-2001, 12:52 AM

Doh, okay so that\'s what I get for not noticing the \"page 2\" part of the responses. I like the \"guess the music\" idea though, sounds like fun...

dsmusic

08-09-2001, 05:30 PM

Cleveland?

David Schwartz

csduke

08-13-2001, 12:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by donnie:
Ok here\'s another hint...it\'s a US. Symphony in the middle part of America. And no, it\'s not the Memphis Symphony or Chicago either....

Donnie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The answer: The St. Louis Symphony Orchestra.

Thomas_J

08-13-2001, 12:27 PM

has anyone here tried doing the adagio with the present string libraries? I\'d like to hear how it sounds

Thomas

PatS

08-13-2001, 12:42 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
has anyone here tried doing the adagio with the present string libraries? I\'d like to hear how it sounds

Thomas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don\'t have the score of Barber\'s arrangement for string orchestra, you can find it online at http://members.tripod.com/%7EEbbisham/barber.html (\"http://members.tripod.com/%7EEbbisham/barber.html\") (jpeg format). I\'m a bit surprised that someone posted it on the web, since it\'s still under copyright protection (or at least I think it is). If you want your own hard copy, you can order the score at http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/orch.html#samuel_barber; (\"http://www.alexanderpublishing.com/orch.html#samuel_barber;\") it\'s only $4 (US).

Pat

Thomas_J

08-13-2001, 12:55 PM

Thanks PatS, great page!

Thomas

Oksi Moron

08-13-2001, 10:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
has anyone here tried doing the adagio with the present string libraries? I\'d like to hear how it sounds

Thomas<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So happens I just posted a URL in another thread (the one on Legato):
http://www.stanford.edu/~gmsmith/mp3/barber3.mp3 (\"http://www.stanford.edu/~gmsmith/mp3/barber3.mp3\")

This is the first time I\'ve ever asked folks to listen to something I\'ve done, and I\'m feeling very diffident, to say the least. Let me have it straight. I\'m afraid people are going to think it\'s so bad they won\'t want to tell me how bad it is.

Oksi

Thomas_J

08-14-2001, 04:07 AM

Good work, Oksi! I realize it is not easy to do this in a sequencer. First rule when you\'re dealing with adagio pieces, remove the metronome and sequence it with feeling. post-tempchanges won\'t cut it. It sounds almost like you quantized it some places. Still it is very difficult and I\'m not sure it is even possible using the current libraries :/ perhaps with gigastrings?

Good job though!

Thomas