Everything from GPO2 and nothing more...

[BuddhaMaster]

Maybe I will not make friends by saying this, but I was really slightly disappointed by having nothing new in GPO4, expect of course the SAM brass.

Not even a little toy was added.

Somewhere I read on the package "2 Pianos", then I was thinking "maybe they added a Standup Piano!" But there was nothing, Maybe It's the Celeste or the Harspichord, but a real standup would really be great. I love a standup Piano, its more intimate.

After 2 sequent editions I was sort of expecting something.
Ok this is maybe a pretty big request.
Instead a Cimbalon, Hammered Dulcimer, Hackbrett, Zither or Blaster Beam would be pretty funny. I love all sort of metallic percussion toys
Like those beauty's (http://www.google.ch/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hora.ro/mici/PERCUTIE_CIMBALOM.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hora.ro/pages/others.htm&h=225&w=300&sz=16&tbnid=XSAyyKdFH2fWyM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcimbalom&hl=en&usg=__DAsBqZ7jI-d72VDj0ZpjHWq0eAE=&sa=X&ei=YctmTI2KCcqsOL-A6bkF&ved=0CDYQ9QEwBw)

http://www.hora.ro/mici/PERCUTIE_CIMBALOM.jpg http://www.hora.ro/mici/PERCUTIE_HAMMERED.jpg

Btw: What is this instrument called where you bend a saw-blade to make these wobbling sounds, they are completely forgotten? weren't they pretty common in music score some day?

[Tim Perry]

Hi BuddhaMaster,

Thanks for the feedback--it's good to be critical. I don't know much about the old versions of GPO, but I believe the main purpose of the GPO4 release was to get things working with the ARIA player (allowing for 64 bit operation). In other words, most of the improvements were made under the hood. ARIA gives a better platform with which to expand the products, add effects, etc.

Quite a few people have expressed interest in historic instruments. So, it's likely that in the future we could see a historic insrument library released. As for the instrument you are referring to: I've heard it before but unfortunately I also don't know the name of it.

Cheers,
Tim

[Tom_Davis]

A musical saw, also called a singing saw, is the application of a hand saw as a musical instrument.

[rbowser-]

Hi BuddhaMaster

The main point about GPO4, and the new versions of all the Garritan Libraries, is that they are programmed now to work in Aria instead of Kontakt. There was a long history of problems, delayed developments, broken codes etc as long as the Garritan instruments were being ported as 3rd party programs in Native Instruments' Kontakt.

Now the Garritan company is free of all that hassle, and has developed its own sample player, Aria.

But in the new version of GPO, besides being in Aria, and the addition of all the key SAM Brass instruments, there's also the return of the great Garritan Ambience reverb, much more intuitive use of special MIDI controllers, the great sounding Stereo Stage--and last, but not least, the Auto Legato feature which virtually replaces the more time consuming method requiring the complicated use of CC64.

Maybe the changes and additions aren't as "sexy" as you'd hoped for, but GPO4 is a vastly improved library from the earlier versions. I think you'll find that to be true as you work with it longer.

It's so completely not true to say "everything from GPO2 and nothing more."

Randy

[Aziraphal]

I believe Buddhamaster wanted to have more instruments added to the orchestra.

That brings us to the old dilemma of sample developers: If you start adding more unusual instruments and articulations, the size of the library swells to terabyte size and four-figure price. The mission of GPO has always been to include just the orchestral "necessities" to keep both the price and the size down. (and in "bang-for-the-buck" ratio it is still, and I think always will be, unsurpassed)

I think we should make a FAQ point of this as it has come up several times before.

Cheers

[Larry G. Alexander]

Btw: What is this instrument called where you bend a saw-blade to make these wobbling sounds, they are completely forgotten? weren't they pretty common in music score some day?

If you aren't talking about the actual saw itself, perhaps you are thinking of the Theremin.

[pokeefe]

If you aren't talking about the actual saw itself, perhaps you are thinking of the Theremin.
And if you are talking about the actual saw, it's called [wait for this ...] a musical saw.

Pat

[Tim Perry]

A sample library for vintage synths like the Theremin? I sure hope not. Much better off using physical modeling of the circuit components for that (synthesizing the "analog" synth sounds). It would be a quillian times more expressive and as a result would enable way more realistic sounding performances than samples (especially considering the evolving nature of Theremin tones). We can say the same about any instrument that sustains tones, but with acoustic instruments like violin the challenge of modeling is in a different realm.

[pokeefe]

Btw: What is this instrument called where you bend a saw-blade to make these wobbling sounds, they are completely forgotten? weren't they pretty common in music score some day?

There was a replacement for the musical saw called the Flexatone that was apparently easier to play. Descriptions on the web refer to it as a percussion instrument (and pictures show one or two attached "mallets"). However, Khachaturian's piano concerto's original part for musical saw was replaced with a part of flexatone so there must be some non-percussive way of playing it. I think that part may occasionally be played by a theremin but it's more often just omitted. (With all the classically trained musical saw, flexatone, and theremin performers around, I can't understand the problem. :))

Maybe the Garritan folks are planning to including one or more of those in World Music collection. Or maybe we'll have to wait for the Out-of-This-World Music collection.

Pat

[Haydn]

The libraries needed to be updated to use the ARIA player which in itself was a big programming project. The extra instruments such as the SAM Brass were added as a bonus. Also, there are a couple choir sounds that were added. Adding more instruments would have delayed the release even longer.

There were issues Kontakt 3 users were having with the libraries which would have required more resources to update. So I think the update to ARIA was a better idea. I find that ARIA uses less resources than Kontakt 3.5 or 4.1 use. Kontakt 2 was getting dated and didn't play well with multi-processor systems plus it isn't 64 bit compatible.

Now that GPO, JABB and CoMB are out, other NEW libraries can be worked on. World Instruments is up next and will be taking the programming of ARIA up another step.

Jim

[marce]

Hey, i posted a link to a free Theremin VSTi something like an hour ago! where is my post? some issue with the forum?

BTW, here is the interesting free theremin:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2558.html

http://rekkerd.org/img/articles/simple-media_superspookkeys_thumb.jpg

[BuddhaMaster]

hey everybody, sorry for the late reply.
Looks like I started quiet a conversation here.

Yes the instrument is called a Musical Saw alright, heavily depending on a natural performance - which is almost impossible to successfully recreate as virtual instrument. Therefore, nobody does it.

I know Spook Keys (http://www.simple-media.co.uk/music/vsti/vsti.htm#spookkeys) (I own it and its good) it emulates a Theremin quiet impressive, you can also shape the sound and create other types. It works with a XY controller interface (either by controlling with the mouse in two axis, or a midi controller) Able to create a convincing natural performance!
- With this in mind and additional dynamics controller you could actually create a convincing virtual Musical Saw!
But this is not really not really important to me, right now.

- - returning to the topic:
I congratulate the producers of GPO to gained independence of Kontakt player!

My biggest request to the ARIA player is knobs readout! I really need this, either on the interface, or sent to the host.
I also need to save Ambience Presets. I saved myself about 25-30 perfect presets with the previous standalone plugin, for different purpose. I'm also willing to share those, personally they really get the best out of the sound. The Ambience plugin was already part of GPO1 and a free version is available, I never had troubles using it before. So I get no real advantage of how it is now!
expect the internal 'send' feature is really useful and time saving.

Please consider this :)

- - - Getting really back to topic - - - I just expected the wonderful GPO authors would have added a little bonus instrument (naturally), without the need to get a complete new library (consuming another terrabytes of space). sort as of a loyalty gift to the user :)

Random bonus-question: What's that damped cymbal/metal/pipe called you usually hear in every spy movie?
sounds like a distant metal pipe, struck with a damped stick, muffled sound with lots of muffled decay. Actually it sounds like a gigantic Cymbal covered with a piece of cloth. :confused:
Most of the time it sounds almost Unrealistic, synth-like, but I know this is part of a movie orchestra.

Greetings
Thanks for listening.

[Haydn]

The Project SAM brass were added instruments including the solo trumpet, trombone, french horn and tuba plus the trumpet, trombone and french horn ensembles. There is also some choir patches. All of these were added to GPO 4.

Jim

[FLWrd]

Random bonus-question: What's that damped cymbal/metal/pipe called you usually hear in every spy movie?
Do you have an example? I've got another library (EWQLSO) and that has a lot of metal percussion effects, e.g. a scraped tam-tam, which sounds a bit like that, and steel plates and anvils (not kidding). It's over the top, but in a spy movie...

WRT to GPO4: I wouldn't want to go back to Kontakt. The new player is much better behaved, and loads very fast, and there are subtle changes, such as panning and volume, that make the instruments sit together better. The new brass samples are also quite good. I also had my reservations in the beginning, but I gave it a try, and within a week or so, I was convinced.

[BuddhaMaster]

Do you have an example? I've got another library (EWQLSO) and that has a lot of metal percussion effects, e.g. a scraped tam-tam, which sounds a bit like that, and steel plates and anvils (not kidding). It's over the top, but in a spy movie...



Ok here you go. Perfect example at 0:12 ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdK2HP434iI

You will notice that "ploff" muffled metallic sound. I love this sound

[FLWrd]

That's a very specific sound indeed. I've got a sample called "steel plate" that sounds a bit like it. With some EQ it might sound identical. Did you ever check freesound.org? It's a great site. With the keywords "plate hit" I found this: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=70799. It's a metal cabinet being hit. When played softly, it sounds similar. You could look around for more.

[rbowser-]

+1 On Theo's recommendation for the Freesound site. I use it constantly, always finding useful things there. It's a collective effort, very well organized and administered. I really need to keep doing what I intend - make a contribution to the fine effort they're carrying on there.

The filing cabinet slam is good--unfortunately the tail was cut off. - The source sound in the James Bond movie seemed to me a very generic distant "thunk" that could be most anything. It was so dulled down that it didn't sound metallic to me - more of a wooden sound. But I think the point is, to get those kind of ambient sounds like in film sound tracks, you can really use Anything. With tons of reverb, judicious use of EQ, time shifting effects etc - you can come up with sounds just as interesting and successful.

Randy

[sanyarem]

Ok here you go. Perfect example at 0:12 ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdK2HP434iI

You will notice that "ploff" muffled metallic sound. I love this sound

Hmm, it sounds to me like a temple block and a suspended cymbal with soft yarn mallet being struck simultaneously. (The sus. cym, is struck very very lightly.)

Just a thought :)