Purrfect Drums

[Arch Stanton]

Is there anyone who\'s bought this sample set who has a few moments to describe it in detail and review it -- in particular some info on how extensively they\'ve sampled each instrument? For example have they used the full 16 velocity levels for, say, the snares, with separate sets for left-right hands, center and near the rim, etc? What about the hi-hats?

cheers,
arch

[Damian Smith]

The Purrrfect Drums library is excellent. It\'s an absolute steal for the price. $@49 bucks for 8 CD\'s.

As far as sounds go, the kits are fantastic. There\'s two different types of kits, there\'s th Quickstart kits which load as single gigs and Full Kits which are set up in performances. The kicks, snares and toms are on one channel and the cymbals are on another.

Unfortunately, because of hard drive space and memory, I haven\'t been able to test the Full Kits, so I\'ve been using the Quickstart kits. They\'re great for just being able to have a full drum kit on the keyboard. From what I\'ve seen in the doccumentation supplied, in the Full Kits, there are things like chokes on the cymbals and things like that. Someone might be able to fill you in on what\'s in the Full Kits.

Overall the drums are excelllent. The cymbals are the best cymbals I\'ve ever played. You can get some pretty convincing rolls on then.

They only used a single Yamaha kit with an extra 2 kicks and an extra 3 snares, but what counts is that you\'ve got some pretty usable sounds.

If you want to use it in conjunction with other libraries, then I\'d suggest just using the Quickstart kits. In the doccumentation, they suggest for the Full Kits to have at least 256 or even better 384 megs of RAM.

The hi-hats are very realistic. You\'ve got all sorts of variations, half closed, full closed, half open, etc.

For the money, it\'s the best library out there.

[SCARBEE]

It sounds very promising, but is there no demo to hear?

If not is is very strange - I wouldn\'t wannna by a library \"blindly\".

Thomas

[Chadwick]

In this case I think we\'re talking \'deafly\' http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Agreed, I think it\'s weird that there\'s no demo. Drums have got to be the easiest thing to put a demo together for!

[meltingmars]

On some of the Cakewalk newsgroups, some of the senior members like Pete Leoni, and Bruce Richardson who also write for prorec.com have said these are the best drums samples they have heard. Acutally their are loads of people on that newsgroup saying they are great

Pete Leoni built a whole new gigastudio computer dedicated to just Purrrfect Drums.

About just putting demos up quickly. I think any demo must be musical or you can\'t hear how the instruments fit in the mix. A good example is Dan Dean\'s bass demo\'s. Oh my god, I can\'t tell if the bass samples sound good or not because the demo musically is a joke, I think Band in a box could have done better. J-Slap is at the other extreme, I could listen to those demos all day long just for enjoyment of the music.

Jim of Studiocat has said he will get a demo up soon. I am sure he is adding other instruments like bass and guitar, etc. Hopefully he will put the complete demo up with the drums also in solo, so you can hear them alone, like Scarbee has done with his Bass demos.

mars

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Damian Smith:
The Purrrfect Drums library is excellent. It\'s an absolute steal for the price. $249 bucks for 8 CD\'s.

They only used a single Yamaha kit with an extra 2 kicks and an extra 3 snares, but what counts is that you\'ve got some pretty usable sounds.

The hi-hats are very realistic. You\'ve got all sorts of variations, half closed, full closed, half open, etc.

For the money, it\'s the best library out there.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I\'d add a few things to this.

First, every drum and cymbal in the collection is hand-picked for the project out of piles of choices. Because Jim knew the degree of detail he\'d be sampling, he had to limit the number of drums and cymbals, so he spared no expense in finding the very best ones he could buy...flying around the country just to listen to what the biggest stores had in stock. In addition to the Yamaha kit\'s toms (which sound killer), Jim had a set of custom Ayotte toms built (wood rims), which are beautiful and add a totally different color.

The coverage of articulations is massive...yes, for sure, there are 16 layers per instrument. That\'s the very least...most are far more. Matter of fact, the snares are covered by 96 layers and up--we\'re talking left and right hand strikes, you name it. You never get the \"machine gun\" effect, because it\'s virtually impossible to trigger the same strike twice.

The cymbals are mind-blowers. Depending on the cymbal there\'s anywhere from 16 to hundreds of individual samples. For instance, if you\'ve got a Roland pad set, you can set up a hi-hat to play wide open on rim shot, half choke on pad, stomp on pedal, and when you\'ve got the pedal down, you get two more sets of 16, more tightly choked on the pads.

I know Jim personally, so I know quite a bit about what he did and how he did it...besides the exhaustive search for the best-sounding drums and cymbals he could find. First, the mic list is phenomenal. You\'re talking C24 for an overhead, here!! The rest of the list is on par with this...I\'d conservatively say there\'s a good $30,000 worth of rare and top-line mics and preamps on the kits. Second, he went to a studio known for getting killer drum sounds, and tuned the drums immaculately. Third, the strikes are well performed, and mapped in a logarithmic array so that they\'re concentrated in the \"sweet spot,\" making it likely you\'ll never likely to trigger the same sample twice in a row even if you\'re not using the multi-hand voicings.

A couple of things to know about Jim Roseberry. First, he is one of the nicest and most humble guys you will meet on this planet, and you won\'t find him in here tooting his own horn. It\'s just not in his character, as much as I\'ve told him he needs to be shouting from the rooftops about this collection. He just says, \"People will find out about it,\" and apparently he\'s right. Second, he\'s a perfectionist beyond belief, and he spent well over a year just fine-tuning this library. That\'s why there\'s no demo, by the way (and trust me I\'ve talked to him about this <g>). He\'s not just going to throw out a quickie. He\'s working on it, but as per his usual \"nobody hears this until it\'s right\" attitude, he\'s getting studio players from coast to coast on the thing to make it as kicking as possible.

I can tell you flat out if you want the best sounding drumsets for GigaStudio, these are the ones to get. They are ridiculously, insanely over-the-top in terms of detail. These are eight EXTREMELY compacted discs, and as Damian says, you\'d better order another hard drive along with the set (and RAM if you don\'t have at least 256 Mb...384 to 512 would be better if you want to actually load other things!!). It will not be wasted money. I have actually advised other developers to hold off until these get into circulation...because they\'re so good it may be a moot point to cover the territory!! Someone would have to make a Herculean effort in every aspect of production to come close...Jim set out to make the drumkit library of all times, and he definitely did. My feeling is that these will set the standard for many years to come, and that the need for additional kits will be more in terms of highly specialized sounds. For the basic pop genres, including jazz, pop, rock, country, etc...these drums sound like the best recorded albums on the market.

By the way, they are somewhat \"radio ready\" in that they sound HUGE (the floor tom and kicks just made me laugh out loud when I first heard them). But they\'re also dry and unprocessed except for the requisite compression to get the signal on tape. By the way, Nick, if you\'re following this, it\'s exactly the kind of drum sound you were talking about--extreme high-dollar polished sound, not garage-like in the least. Very LA. They\'ll take processing well, but are very much in the pocket right out of the box. Raw is not a sound I\'d use to describe them, but they are extremely dynamic.

If it sounds like this is a glowing heap of praise, it is...and it\'s not because I know Jim. If anything that has made me pretty cautious about even talking about them, but since someone else brought it up, I\'m glad to get the chance. Jim deserves the praise, and you folks deserve the hot tip. This is definitely NOT your typical sampled drumkit in any way...and I have no problem saying you won\'t find another library like this one. For the price, it is a ridiculously good value. A steal...frankly, I\'ve told Jim he\'s crazy for not asking 2 or 3 times as much.

[Ian Stewart Cairns]

Sam,

Try http://www.studiocat.com (\"http://www.studiocat.com\")

[Sam]

Found it, thanks. 12 gigabytes of samples? Holy Cow! Even compressed, I\'m gonna need another disk, even though I\'ve already got one dedicated to giga...

I love the incredible stuff we get for GS, but I\'m still blown away by the amount of resources consumed by a modern setup. My monster box is feeling wimpier and wimpier.

[Damian Smith]

I\'ve got a big suggestion for using Purrfect Drums together with any other disk-hungry sound like the GigaPiano. Go SCSI. I know the price is so expensive, but if you\'re working with the drums and a piano at the same time and they both need heavy disk use, then it\'s the best way to go.

I\'ve got three Cheetah 9-gig drives. One for system and audio stuff (partitioned) and another two for gigs. I\'ve got the drums on one drive and the other drive for other instruments. Especially when you\'re using the ride cymbals in the drums which take about 30 seconds to die out, having this configuration helps immensely. I\'m getting no pops or clicks in the audio at all. Has anyone else been using this sort of configuration with these sorts of results?

[Sam]

Got a pointer to the drums? I couldn\'t find info on it. Also in case anyone knows, do the cymbals use choke groups, and does the lib work well (other than that) with gigasampler.

thanks!

[Ian Stewart Cairns]

Bruce,

Could you be persuaded to put together a short demo together using the Purrfect Drums? I certainly trust your opinion of the kits (and greatly enjoy your input over on ProRec - just bought a Rode NTK as it happens), but agree with Thomas that a \"blind\" purchase is not something I\'m interested in.

Best Wishes,
Ian

[Nick Phoenix]

I got Purrrfect Drums today. First of all, the actual samples only take up a few gigs, not 12. You really don\'t HAVE to load the kits (arrangements of the same samples organized in kits) unless you are using a drum controller or you have to work that way. The library actually has very little variety in types of drum sounds. If you are looking for tremendous variety, buy this and a few other libraries. The cymbals, hats, rides, kicks and toms are amazing. The kicks are beefy and dynamic, compressed for a more in your face sort of a sound, some of the softer velocities would probably work for less aggressive music. The toms are nice with very crisp attacks, good for some things. Cymbals and hats are pretty perfect. Rides could have a little more variety in tone. But, alas, the snares are not very good. Improper micing technique and not enough dynamics, possibly too much compression. I URGE the Studiokat people to redo the snare samples!!! Still, I recommend this library.

[Jim Roseberry]

But, alas, the snares are not very good. Improper micing technique and not enough dynamics, possibly too much compression. I URGE the Studiokat people to redo the snare samples!!! Still, I recommend this library.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hi Nick,

I can understand you not liking the snares. They might not be your cup of tea. But I strongly disagree with your statement that they were improperly miked/mixed and lack dynamics. I have many quotes from users that would totally contradict this. (If anyone is interested, they can go to the studio cat website and read em\'.)
In fact, I urge anyone interested in PD to contact Cakewalk and Nemesys themselves... and get their opinions.

About the ride cymbal lacking tonal variation, that\'s somewhat surprising to hear considering that the ride cymbal was sampled at 2\", 3\", 4\", and bell (16 layers deep at each position. The goal was to provide lots of subtle variation. Too much variation and the ride cymbal takes on a \'random-sample\' quality that\'s VERY un-natural.

As to the samples not being 12Gigs:
Obviously the \'Quick-start\' kits are derived from the samples in the \'Full\' kits.

The whole idea behind the quickstart kits is just that...
To provide kits that load as a single Gig file, operate from a single MIDI channel, have room ambience, and are basically ready to roll. (Especially useful when you want to just sit and play.)

NOTE: The cymbals HAVE to be included with each quickstart kit... unless you use performance files - but that would defeat the whole premise. (Thus, each of the seven quickstart kits is right about 900MB.)
I should also mention that the cymbals are tweaked differntly for each quickstart kit.

Also note that I\'ve provided each cymbal as an isolated Gig file.
Why?
Pretty simple...
Say you like the paiste crash cymbal (which favors the left side of the stereo field)... and you\'d like a similar (but slightly different) crash on the other side of the kit.
Well... load in the paiste crash Gig, flip the panning, adjust the tuning up/down, and voila! You have a similar crash on the other side of the kit. (Without having to open the patch editor and roll your own)

So... yes... the total size is right about 12Gigs of data. There is reason/purpose for each and every bit of data on the CD! That doesn\'t mean that you\'ll find use for each and every kit/sample, but a different user may NEED those quickstart kits/samples... or want the convenience of not having to \'extract\' a cymbal from the cymbals_all Gig just to add a slight variation.

On a more personal level...
You asked someone not to present their opinions about your brass library as fact.
Making blanket statements about the snares not being miked/mixed properly is doing the exact same thing. Lots of folks would disagree with your opinion.




------------------
Jim Roseberry

[Jim Roseberry]

I should also mention that we\'ll have an audio demo online soon!

And I\'ll make sure that folks can clearly hear the snares... <g>




------------------
Jim Roseberry

[Nick Phoenix]

Jim,
I totally agree with you. The snare comment is just my opinion. To me they just don\'t sound similar to what I hear on a typical record of any genre. They kind of sound like you used a high end condenser mic or a combination of mics with wierd positioning.. Did I not emphasize that your library is great? I\'m sorry if that didn\'t come across.

[This message has been edited by Nick Phoenix (edited 05-05-2001).]

[Nick Phoenix]

Also, the comment about the library not really being 12 gigs, was in answer to peoples complaints that 12 gigs was too much for their system, not that you are trying to scam anyone. I was saying that the library is still accessible if you only have a few gigs available. I almost didn\'t buy the library when I saw the size. The comment about the rides not having enough variety of sound was referring to different types of rides and micing/playing styles. The ride sounds awesome!!

[stmikkel]

Hi.

The purrrfect drums cds sounds fantastic. This is something I just got to have. :-)

But, I\'m thinking about buying a ddr-ram athlon motherboard. Right now, the max ram limit is 512mb. I\'m a bit afraid of the size of the kits here. I\'m mean, it\'s great that the drums have been sampled in such great detail, but how much memory resources would the full kits take up on a computer with 512 or 768 mb ram?

This is in no way critic against the product. I\'m definately going to buy this, but it would be very nice to know how much ram resources this kits would take up.
...anyone..?

Thanks for telling us about this great product! I would most likely have missed it otherwise.

[Lougheed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>The Purrrfect Drums library is excellent. It\'s an absolute steal for the price. $@49 bucks for 8 CD\'s.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny. I read that as $49, which really didn\'t make sense. However, the proper price ($249) is still amazing!

Lawrence



------------------
Melodialworks Music
www.lawrencelougheed.com (\"http://www.lawrencelougheed.com\")

[Arch Stanton]

thanks all for your input so far.

I\'m certainly leaning towards getting this set, though I may wait to hear a demo.

RE the size of the sample library, it\'s DEFINITELY relevant if the set is 2-3 gigs and not 12 gigs. Although I might not go so far as to say it\'s a scam if they\'re marketing this as 12 gigs, there\'s certainly a BIG DIFFERENCE if you\'re getting a couple of gigs of samples, rather than 12, and something to consider when you\'re talking about the per-CD price to the user. CDs cost pennies -- it\'s the recording, tweaking and programming of samples that we\'re paying for. If the exact same samples are being used for trimmed-down kits and for cymbals-only instruments, those could be handled as sub-instruments within larger umbrella .gig files (By the way, same goes for Quantum Leap Brass -- there\'s quite a bit of overlap in those instruments, which could fit on less than 5-6 CDs). The files can easily be merged by the end-user using the instrument editor\'s ``merge\'\' command, and so you have a smaller footprint on your hard drive. I believe it also takes up much less performance ram if you\'re loading separate instruments with overlapping samples from within the same .gig file, as opposed to from separate .gig files (someone correct me if I\'m wrong there). Why not supply individual cymbals as subinstruments of a kit, rather than in their own .gig file? A user could strip out the single cymbal as a .gig file if he or she really wants to.

There may be one small thing to consider for some users, however: Bigger .gig files with lots of subinstruments seem to be more likely to crash the instrument editor if you do a lot of tweaking (that\'s been the case on my system anyway). If you don\'t tweak, you shouldn\'t have any problems at all merging. If you do lots of tweaking, and you have the extra hard-drive space, you might as well keep separate .gig files.

regards,
Arch

[Munsie]

http://www.studiocat.com/mp3/lhblues.mp3 (\"http://www.studiocat.com/mp3/lhblues.mp3\")

Uh...excuse me, is this supposed to be the demo to show off these drums????? Please tell me there is another demo with the drums by themselves and a little more complex patterns being played. jeesh...

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Roseberry:
I should also mention that we\'ll have an audio demo online soon!

And I\'ll make sure that folks can clearly hear the snares... <g>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jim, from what I\'ve heard these drums sound great . Now I haven\'t heard the disks in person, so I don\'t know all the choices you have on there, but here\'s a request, because I\'m betting the farm that this sample is not on there....

I have yet to find a drum library that includes a sample of a ride cymbal that is hit with the edge of the stick. In much rock music, this type of playing produces a \"wash\" effect where the listener doesn\'t even hear the attack of the stick on the cymbal...it\'s just a solid wall of \"SSSSH\" that is a staple of virtually all rock music. I know that this comes from the cymbal building up a bit and so a single sample of it being hit wouldn\'t get it done, but there must be a way to sample this effect. I\'m to the point where I\'m going to have to buy a ride cymbal just for overdubs because I\'ve never found this anywhere. And it\'s on just about every rock record out there. If you ever do a sequel, this is one effect that would really add to the realism of creating rock drum tracks. All cymbals I\'ve ever heard are miked too close to even try this effect, with the end result being that you can hear each attack of the stick on the cymbal, rather than the \"big wash.\"

Thanks and looking forward to your drums....

[Munsie]

\" In much rock music, this type of playing produces a \"wash\" effect where the listener doesn\'t even hear the attack of the stick on the cymbal...it\'s just a solid wall of \"SSSSH\" \"

Hmmm, I drum a bit, I\'m wondering if you are thinking of \"riding\" on a crash cymbal. When you ride on a \"crash cymbal\" you get the solid \"sssh\" sound you are thinking of. Even my first drum library from Sonic Implants can pull this effect off by riding the crash cymbal, changing velocities every once in a while.

[tomhartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Munsie:
\" In much rock music, this type of playing produces a \"wash\" effect where the listener doesn\'t even hear the attack of the stick on the cymbal...it\'s just a solid wall of \"SSSSH\" \"

Hmmm, I drum a bit, I\'m wondering if you are thinking of \"riding\" on a crash cymbal. When you ride on a \"crash cymbal\" you get the solid \"sssh\" sound you are thinking of. Even my first drum library from Sonic Implants can pull this effect off by riding the crash cymbal, changing velocities every once in a while.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That\'s what I\'ve had to do, but it\'s not the same as riding a cymbal with the edge of the stick....

[Lucas]

On a side note, Jim Roseberry has produced a CD of impulse response patterns that can be used in Samplitude\'s room simulator and Sound Forge\'s acoustic mirror. The quality is just superb.

[NAZARU]

Stmikkel,
According to my research the ABIT KG7 DDR motherboard is the fastest DDR Athlon motherboard based on the AMD 761 chipset. In terms of speed, the AMD 761 chipset beats all other chipsets by miles except the SIS 735 chipset with it\'s integrated architecture. The SIS 735 chipset doesn\'t seem to be available in motherboards as of now and may suffer from SIS\'s reputation as a low end chipset maker. The Abit KG7 comes with four dimm slots and is supposed to be super stable. Also note that 512 MB DDR ram sticks are available at www.pcusa.com (\"http://www.pcusa.com\") which is also good news. Peace

[cobra7]

I think Tom is referring to a cymbal roll, where the drummer does a fast, lengthy roll with the sides of his sticks on the edge of the cymbal, causing a crescendo of \"SSSSHHHHHHHH\"! Tom is right - you shouldn\'t be able to hear the individual strikes in this type of effect and I would love to see a library that contains long, medium and short length samples of it. In fact, what would be really cool would be a sample that has a long, medium and short crescendo but holds the roll at its eventual peak level until the MIDI note is released, at which point the sound would decay naturally. I\'ve considered modifying a cymbal sample from my Sonic Implants library by chopping off the attack, looping it and applying an envelope with a long attack time on it to try to achieve this effect. Don\'t know if it will work yet. Let you know.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cobra7:
I think Tom is referring to a cymbal roll, where the drummer does a fast, lengthy roll with the sides of his sticks on the edge of the cymbal, causing a crescendo of \"SSSSHHHHHHHH\"! Tom is right - you shouldn\'t be able to hear the individual strikes in this type of effect and I would love to see a library that contains long, medium and short length samples of it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, I don\'t think that\'s what he\'s referring to. He\'s referring to \"soft riding\" on a crash cymbal with the shaft of the stick, to get an overall cymbal sheen on the track.

You can do this with Purrrfect Drums. Matter of fact, you can play fairly decent cymbal rolls, not soft-mallet smooth, but definitely reminiscent of what you\'d get on a real cymbal playing single-roll swells with sticks. You hear the \"stick\" but not as much as the \"swoosh\" and certainly not like you\'d hear on a sample with only a few velocity levels. No emulation is really perfect, but this one is darn well playable.

[Tymah]

Please someone share more detail on which particular Yamaha snare was used for this library. If not the model, at least is it metal or wood one.

thanks

[sporter]

Up until I got the Larry Sayer, all I used were Purrfect Drums. They are still better than most libraries out there, but Larry Sayer sort of knocked it out of the ballpark with his library.

Funny this thread got bumped up as I was playing with a kit where the Sayer and P Drums were combined. I still love the cymbals in P Drums, and have come up with some interesting variations combining the two kits...

fwiw. . .

[Sr_Velasco]

Any cymbal library with all these patches? :eek:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/gavinharrisoncymbalsong.html

Bad joke! :D