Need advice on 'second hand' sample disks

[Blob]

I have been offered-
Mirislav solo 1+2
Dan Dean Cello
Y.Tools Pure Guitars
Advanced Orchestra
QLB 2+3
Peter Erskine drums
All in AKAI format and at a fair price.
All the disks are original AFAIK (genuine cd booklets etc)
My only problem is with the liscience agreements,ie will i be able to actually use any of the samples for \"monetary gain\" (cd\'s+ maybe some documentary scores)

I know this is not really the place to ask, but, they will all be converted to giga + as far as forums go, this has got to be the most
freindly/helpfull/knowledgable on the net!-insert \'sucky\' sample HERE http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Thanks in advance

oops, the dan dean is giga (solo strings not just cello)


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The Blob

[This message has been edited by Blob (edited 04-23-2001).]

[Blob]

Shame there is no icon for a \'shady geezer\'
\"psst..wanna buy some samplesss?\"

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[OH]

Hi!

YOu have got to be very very careful with Second Hand stuff. In case you are living in the USA: DO NOT TOUCH THEM.

In case you are living in Germany: Buy them!

Licensee agreements have to match your countries law.

regards

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O.H.

[Munsie]

I\'m confused, this doesn\'t sound like he is buying copies, it sounds like he is buying the original disks. Is this not do\'able? After all I have a few sample cd\'s I don\'t use and need to sell them also. Is this not possible?

[Bill]

> Is this not do\'able

Actually, even GIVING a sample library away is usually not allowed.

[Robert Kral]

If you have Distorted Reality 2, or Sympphony of Voices, or pretty much any recent Spectrasonics/Eric Persing produnction, check out your own original booklet that came with the CDs: it\'s very very clear that the sounds are not yours to sell or resell, your are buying a license to use them yourself and that is all.

[Blob]

Thanks for the replies

1, Im in the UK,does that make any difference?
2, I know the seller personally (10yrs)
and Trust him implicitly (i hope the spell checker works http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif )
3. Robert, if what you say is true (and i have no reason to doubt you) then is there a way to re-licience the disks?

Im currently \'playing\' with the yellow tools guitars, (Nice 12 string) and looking at the agreement it says \"If you buy a Yellow tools product, you\'ll get a single licience for use of the sounds/samples for your music production\" (it also states in BIG letters \"All samples are 100% clean\" !)
Not being \'legally minded\' (it\'s also been said that i\'m a few Khz short of cd quality!)
does this NOT mean as long as i have purchased said disk, i can use it ?

I\'m a bit confused (as well as a bit dis-chuffed at the possibility that they might not be mine http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif )

Thanks again for your help



------------------
The Blob

[Synth2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blob:
Thanks for the replies

1, Im in the UK,does that make any difference?
2, I know the seller personally (10yrs)
and Trust him implicitly (i hope the spell checker works http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif )
3. Robert, if what you say is true (and i have no reason to doubt you) then is there a way to re-licience the disks?

Im currently \'playing\' with the yellow tools guitars, (Nice 12 string) and looking at the agreement it says \"If you buy a Yellow tools product, you\'ll get a single licience for use of the sounds/samples for your music production\" (it also states in BIG letters \"All samples are 100% clean\" !)
Not being \'legally minded\' (it\'s also been said that i\'m a few Khz short of cd quality!)
does this NOT mean as long as i have purchased said disk, i can use it ?

I\'m a bit confused (as well as a bit dis-chuffed at the possibility that they might not be mine http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif )

Thanks again for your help



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi there,

The unfortunate situation is that if you buy sample CDs second hand, especially the ones you mention you won\'t have the license to re-use those samples in your music. Essentially when you purchase a sample library, you\'re not purchasing the physical CDs - you are rather purchasing the license from the sample developers to use the samples in your music (the CDs are classified as a means of delivering the samples to you for use in your music). The license cannot be re-sold to another person and as it works with most major sample libraries, the only one who has the legal right to use the samples is the original person who bought the library (thus buying the non-transferable license to use the samples). This is much different from computer software or even music CDs, which are readily bought and re-sold on the used market.

As far as I know this applies worldwide wherever these libraries are sold commercially, even in the UK. Even if all of the libraries come with all of the booklets/original CDs your friend can\'t re-sell them because he doesn\'t have a license to re-sell them (it should say this in the back of all of the booklets on the discs you mention). Be careful - both you and your friend could get into trouble by selling or using sample for which a legal license hasn\'t been purchased for.

I\'m not sure how this works for sample libraries if the libraries are still shrinkwrapped with the registration cards however - perhaps a sample developer here would be willing to provide their insight?

Ryan.


------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[Blob]

Hiya Ryan,

I\'ve just looked at the pure guitars agreement again and it does actually state that any lending/re-sale etc is \"expressley forbidden\"..bugger!

My bud is calling round later with the rest of the cd\'s for me to \'play\' with before i buy..
Can i tell him tommorow? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

ps It might be legal (rip open packaging of nice new sequencer, out drops tiny piece of paper-\"By opening the shrinkwrap on this product you lawfully agree that we may/may not sell your wife/children and give you a \'good duffing\' when we are not hoisting beta software on unsuspecting victi...err customers\"

But is it ethical?

Thanks for the advice




------------------
The Blob

[Jamieh]

My personal opinion is that if your friend is not keeping copies of the samples, and doesn\'t have them loaded anywhere on his system, then I don\'t see an ethical problem with him selling them to you. I think in general the legality surrounding the resale of samples is to prevent people from simply copying the CD and then selling you the original while keeping the copy. Or with .gigs, installing them on your machine and then selling the CD\'s, since once they are installed you don\'t need the CD\'s anymore.

It DOES sound like it isn\'t legal though, so tread lightly. I kind of doubt anyone would ever be able to know that you weren\'t the orignial purchaser except with some of the newer libraries like QL Brass that have digital watermarks on them.

Perhaps some of the actual sample makers like Nick or Dan could chime in with their opinion. I could be way off.

[OH]

O.k. Me again: Let me just say that I was the one who started that kind of topic on best service\' discussion forum here in Germany. The statement from best service is clear:

Law in Germany allows the reselling of samples or at least: doesn\'t forbid it.

It depends on your state\'s law. Forget about what the booklets say (except you are living in the USA!!!)

I do not know just how it works in the USA but in Germany one doesn\'t have to register the Samples in any way. One goes into a shop, buys them & that is it. The only thing one could ask the customer is to keep the bill, but even that is not a must in Germany.

regards

OH

PS: Actually a Music-Shop selling the Samples might already do something not allowed (according to the booklets): They are the first owners (as they pay for the samples to resell them).

[Blob]

I\'ve been playing with Mirislav/Dan Dean for the past hour or so and im very impressed!

I think i need to do some research on British
law (oh what fun)

If i find that i cant use these disks \'commercially\' i think i would purchase them for my own private use (there is something to be said for composing with awesome tones http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif )

Or maybe move to Germany http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

ps the ethical thing was refering more to \'big\' software type people (Steinbug/MS etc)

Thanks again

------------------
The Blob

[Doc]

Here\'s an expansion of the original question, if the end user modifies the original sample in anyway, does any license agreement apply, as now the sample is sample user\'s own creation? Sounds like a legal grey area once there is some modification. What do you legal scholars out there think?

[Nick Phoenix]

Modifying samples and transfering ownership is forbidden in most license agreements.
OH, buying a sample library in the US is exactly the same. You buy it and use it. No paperwork required.
Blob, Is your friend retiring from music. Why is he trying to ILLEGALLY sell his sounds. Why does he only have 2 of the 5 Quantum Leap Brass disks? They aren\'t sold seperately. Sounds like he needs money and the temptation is too great.
If you plan to use any of these sounds commercially, watch out!

[gigaDiga]

Big Bad Nick on the prowl. Seem\'s like OH and Blob have started the wrong discussion in the wrong place.

It\'s kind of strange though that the key to this all is.... If you plan to use any of these sounds commercially.

If you do plan to use sample CD\'s commercially then you will need to buy them. If, however, you are not gonna use them comercially it sounds like you can do anything. Copy them, sell them, lend them, give them away, or even throw them in the bin and let the dustman find them. Is this true? If so it\'s rather odd.

It would seem that sample developers only want people who are gonna use their samples for commercial use to pay for them. Wow that\'s very generous of them. I take back everything I said in the \"too expensive\" thred....

so where do I get my free copy to play with?

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif (don\'t worry guys... I\'m just having fun pushing buttons. but it does seem like some really weird kind of draconian law)

[OH]

\"Be careful - both you and your friend could get into trouble by selling or using sample for which a legal license hasn\'t been purchased for.\"

Just a question Ryan:
How can anybody prove something to be an \"illegal license\".



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O.H.

[OH]

\"I\'ve just looked at the pure guitars agreement again and it does actually state that any lending/re-sale etc is \"expressley forbidden\"..bugger!\"

Hi Blob!

Pure Guitars is from Yellowtools, right? On the best service forum somebody addressed exactly this to them & Yellowtools answer was similar to this: \"You are right. According to German law this doesn\'t hold true and we already changed it in our booklets\"

Once again: It is a state-affair and even them as sample-library-producers confirmed it. Ask them directly if the same law applies to the UK as part of the European Trading Community (although not wanting the Euro)!

------------------
O.H.

[Blob]

If i could just clear a few things up-

1, My freind is most definately NOT retiring from music (he is in the process of turning his \'barn\' into a fully equiped studio)

2, He does own a full set of QLB (as well as mirislav/xsample/S.O.V/Vocal planet/A.O. and around 70 or 80 more)

3, He (my bud) Knows my financial situation and when i asked him \"what i needed\" to get a start in scoring for films/documentarys etc he offered to sell me the above disks at a monthy rate.

4, I showed him this thread and without hesitation he recinded his offer http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif

But looking on the bright side,he did offer me some work when the \'barn\' is finished http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


Guess it\'s back to Giga-Piano+soundFonts


Blob

[Synth2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blob:
Hiya Ryan,

I\'ve just looked at the pure guitars agreement again and it does actually state that any lending/re-sale etc is \"expressley forbidden\"..bugger!

My bud is calling round later with the rest of the cd\'s for me to \'play\' with before i buy..
Can i tell him tommorow? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

ps It might be legal (rip open packaging of nice new sequencer, out drops tiny piece of paper-\"By opening the shrinkwrap on this product you lawfully agree that we may/may not sell your wife/children and give you a \'good duffing\' when we are not hoisting beta software on unsuspecting victi...err customers\"

But is it ethical?

Thanks for the advice

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi there Blob,

Almost all of the sample libraries that I have seen come with some form of a little slip of paper that says \"Read this before opening\". Some have stickers on the jewel case, while others have it printed on the back of the tray insert so you can read it through the shrink wrap. This is basically the agreement that says that by opening the shrink wrap and taking the CD out of the package that you are agreeing to a number of terms as set out by the creators and copyright holders of the sample library and its contents. I could probably find some of the slips of paper if I have them around here for the libraries that own and paste them here if you would like to see what they look like.

There are also a lot of sample library shops that allow you to preview certain sample libraries in the store before you buy, so that may be a way to check things out and decide whether or not the library is appropriate for what you\'re trying to do in your music. Also, ask other musicians and composers, read reviews - there is a lot of information out there thanks to the Internet to help you determine if a product is up to your standards before you purchase it. Don’t get caught up in the theory that the most expensive stuff will always be the best for what you need to do.


OH,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>
Just a question Ryan:
How can anybody prove something to be an \"illegal license\".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many of the new libraries like Nick\'s Quantum Leap Brass have watermarking in place, making it easier for developers to track down their samples. Quantum Leap Brass displays the notice on the actual CDs, but there could be other libraries out there than have a \"hidden\" watermark, so you\'ll never know if they’re watermarked or not. In my opinion, using unlicensed samples for commercial work is just too risky. If it’s not bad enough that there is a chance that you as a composer could get in trouble if caught, there is also that risk that your client will get in legal trouble for putting out a production for which you were hired to use samples that were not properly licensed. I can’t even begin to imagine the resulting nightmare and chaos. I agree that sometimes sample libraries and music gear in general is very expensive. I\'m not rich myself and staying on the cutting edge with new gear and sounds is costly. But the risks involved with the alternative to purchasing the license to work with commercial samples just aren\'t worth it - not for you and not for your client. I think that a lot of people might not understand what the license is all about, since the sample library concept is a bit different from most other products that you purchase.

I liken samples from sample libraries to stock photography - I\'ve worked in the graphic design and multimedia industry and even with professional stock photography, a small license fee must be paid for an image to be used. Sure, you can go out there and take your own snap shots just as you can create your own samples - but if you want to use the higher quality readily available commercial material, you need to compensate the creator for it or we won’t have anyone left who will be willing to create the material for us anymore, imho.

Ryan.



------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[Blob]

Hi Ryan
Of course, your right (not being sarcastic)

But the licience thing was with Cubase vst32
and i had a bugger of a time getting the shop to give me my money back (so it kinda\' sticks in my gullet)

Are these digital water-marks a subliminal thing (you will buy giga-strings...you will buy giga-strings...Gary is good...gary is god.. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Blob

[This message has been edited by Blob (edited 04-24-2001).]

[OH]

O.k. Who is the hacker? After the first questions where some of the mails are gone they suddenly reappeared but the new ones were cancelled. Which & especially whose nerve did we touch?

[Synth2k]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blob:
Hi Ryan
Of course, your right (not being sarcastic)

But the licience thing was with Cubase vst32
and i had a bugger of a time getting the shop to give me my money back (so it kinda\' sticks in my gullet)

[This message has been edited by Blob (edited 04-24-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooops! Sorry Blob, I must have mis-read. My eyes are kind of bugging out on me here - I have been spending many long nights staring at scores (and now blank sheets of music, because I now have writers block!). I am convinced, the longer and later into the night that you stare at white pages with little black dots on them the more those little black dots seem to be floating in 3D on the page.. But I think that is another thread altogether :o)

Ryan.

------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[Blob]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OH:
O.k. Who is the hacker? After the first questions where some of the mails are gone they suddenly reappeared but the new ones were cancelled. Which & especially whose nerve did we touch?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, i noticed that too http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif

If anybody wants me to \'close this thread\'
they only have to ask http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
What with me being forum leader and all (why do i feel like standing on a box and shouting teeeam, TEEEAM in a high pitched voice..suppose you have to be british or a Black Adder fan http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Blob

[Blob]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Synth2k:
Ooops! Sorry Blob, I must have mis-read. My eyes are kind of bugging out on me here - I have been spending many long nights staring at scores (and now blank sheets of music, because I now have writers block!). I am convinced, the longer and later into the night that you stare at white pages with little black dots on them the more those little black dots seem to be floating in 3D on the page.. But I think that is another thread altogether http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/blush.gif)

Ryan.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dieters block is worse..when the dots keep spelling \'fridge\' THEN you have a problem!

on a more serious note (Ab?)

Have you tried deleting the clefs/time/key sigs..
Turning the page up-side down and writing a key sig that is a b5 from the original?

Blob

[KingIdiot]

you will buy giga-strings...you will buy giga-strings...Gary is good...gary is god..

uhm... oooopss sorry

wheee

Liscence agreements are REALLY nutty, but to sample library developers I can see why they are needed. Do you know that when you buy a Roland Keyboard you DO NOT own the sounds that come with the keyboard? They are actually sueing people who reuse teh sounds in sample playback stups/MIDI playback on the PC/web

Its a very tricky legal line that I don\'t like to tread on,...so I jsut use the samples I have with full music,..and buy everything I use.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Blob]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingIdiot:
you will buy giga-strings...you will buy giga-strings...Gary is good...gary is god..

uhm... oooopss sorry

wheee

Liscence agreements are REALLY nutty, but to sample library developers I can see why they are needed. Do you know that when you buy a Roland Keyboard you DO NOT own the sounds that come with the keyboard? They are actually sueing people who reuse teh sounds in sample playback stups/MIDI playback on the PC/web

Its a very tricky legal line that I don\'t like to tread on,...so I jsut use the samples I have with full music,..and buy everything I use.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whilst i totally agree with developers protecting their work, I find it a bit silly that there is no way to re-licience the librarys!
All i can say is thank god they didn\'t invent Guitars http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Just for the record (again) I won\'t be buying ANY second hand disks (well,not until they change their licience agreements)
I will get my library..Just not as soon as i had hoped (dont ya just hate the real world)


Dan really did spit his dummy http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif
But rest assured Dan\'s library is 1st on my list (Loved the viola http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


Blob

ps. Thanks for all your replys (even the mysteriously vanishing ones)
But i can see that this topic is \'a bit too close to home\'
If these agreements are to believed..even
nudging your samples by a few bytes is considered infringment..definately silly !

[Nick Phoenix]

Poor Gigadiga wants more samples but can\'t afford them! Maybe Mommy can help. Please tell me what I did to you to inspire such contempt. People can do whatever they want with a library. If they pirate it, the chances of them getting caught, if they are not releasing music commercially, is nil.

[Blob]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blob:

Yeah, i noticed that too http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif

If anybody wants me to \'close this thread\'
they only have to ask http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif
What with me being forum leader and all (why do i feel like standing on a box and shouting teeeam, TEEEAM in a high pitched voice..suppose you have to be british or a Black Adder fan http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Blob
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

err..i meant TOPIC (was gettin\' delusions of grandure)

[KingIdiot]

Blob, some of the distributers and library producers offer ways to re-liscense the samples. Usually not much cheaper (if at all) than the cost of the library itself. There s also an old group of sample makers/distro guys that created some sort of \"we\'ll get you if you pirate\" group forgot what its called, anyhow, rading through it they stated something to the fact of \"If you find you have illegal versions of Sample CDs, contact us and we may be able to help you get legal copies at lower cost than the original.\" Not sure how taht worked...but anyway...theres a lto of stuff out there on the net regarding this I\'m sure. i\'ld go searching...but ... well...I\'d get lost in it....

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[gigaDiga]

> KingIdiot wrote:
> Do you know that when you buy a Roland Keyboard you DO NOT own the sounds that come with the keyboard?
> They are actually sueing people who reuse teh sounds in sample playback stups/MIDI playback on the PC/web.

What do you think is the legal position of all those sample CD\'s with Roland synths on, or what about Mellotron sample CD\'s? Maybe commercial developers are illegally copying other peoples sounds to sell on.... after all when was the last time Fender released a sample CD of a Fender Guitar?
Do the makers of these instruments get any royalties from sample developers who record their sound and then sell it on?

If I decide to buy a Rhodes sample CD instead of a Rhodes keyboard isn\'t that stealing custom directly away from Rhodes with property stolen from Rhodes in the first place?

It\'s a weird world in here, like living inside a mirror, everythings topsy-turvey, inside out, and upside down. I\'m dizzy.

[OH]

\"Do the makers of these instruments get any royalties from sample developers who record their sound and then sell it on? If I decide to buy a Rhodes sample CD instead of a Rhodes keyboard isn\'t that stealing custom directly away from Rhodes with property stolen from Rhodes in the first place?\"

Very, very, very good point!
Any Sample-library-producer feeling guilty?

------------------
O.H.

[KingIdiot]

eys its a very strange place,..this sampling sworld.

With regards to Roland,...I should point out that its their keyboards/sound modules that they are worries about. These are the ones that use PCM Waves to generate the sound out of the keyboard. Their Analog synths/drum machines aren\'t somethign they jump on people about. Also ith the PCM wave files, I believe they allow loop/musical phrase smpling, but not \"instrument\" ensembles.

The Fender thing is definitely a comparison I\'ve heard before. I think their stance is, you bought the guitar,...you can do whatever you want with the sound you reproduce with it. Its still never going to be as versatile a having the guitar. Even tho I\'m sure they aren\'t happy about guitar players buying samples rather than buying a guitar or rig http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I still find Roland\'s stance fiarly on the MEAN side, I\'ve read through and through on the manuals that came with my XP and I can NOT find anything about \"liscensing\" the sounds and \"not buying\" them. Yet still with some game developers who\'ve \"created\" instruments with their keyboards to be used in DLS banks they are taking legal action. I think they ahve the money to do that kind of crap....but that they are also picking and choosing who to pick on...

Which is another thing, I wonder if SOME sample producers would let the little fish go and jump on the big fish, in terms of sample \"stealing\". I mean is it really worh all the legal trouble? I mean,..reporting someone is one thing, but waht about trying to retain monetary losses and the like?

I dunno...I\'m blabbing.....too much as usual

Hey Nick, been listening ot alot of Ondekoza, and Kodo....whee...heres hoping for an order of RI tomorrow.... Whatch out for the Samurai and Ninja that come after you for sampling their instruments http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif


------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

[Chadwick]

I heard a couple of years ago that Harley Davidson had patented/trade marked the SOUND of their bikes.

I see very little stopping Fender, Gibson or even synth companies like Roland from doing the same thing.

How many times has the TR808 been sampled?

[This message has been edited by Chadwick (edited 04-26-2001).]

[Blob]

How would Fender/Gibson trademark \'their\' sound?
speaking from a guitarist\'s point of view,
Exact same setup (Fender \'tele\' plugged straight into mesa boogie mk4) played by 2 different guitarists=VASTLY different sound!
(students allways \'want a go\' of my stuff http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

And again...Hendrix strat vs Hank Marvin\'s ?
(now there is a \'cutting heads\' i\'d of like to have seen http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I get the impression digitally produced sounds would be easier to copyright (having recently learned about \'water marks\')

Blob

ps. didn\'t BMW copyright the sound of their doors closing?

[Nick Phoenix]

This IS very interesting. Sampling started out pretty much as thievery, after all. Where do you draw the line? If Fender felt that the sample industry was hurting their business, I think they might try to do something about it.

[OH]

\"ps. didn\'t BMW copyright the sound of their doors closing?[/B][/QUOTE]\"

Mmmm. I love this one!

[Horst]

Though the thread has becom quite long I\'d just like to throw in that OH is definitely right in saying:

According to German laws it is possible to sell your software or your samples to anyone else you like. Of course: Once sold you are not allowed to hold copies anymore.

There has recently been a big discussion here about Microsoft\'s license agreements and it is now clear, that parts of them are not valid here. You also have the right to get as many software-keys as you or the buyer of your software need in order to run it.

The fact that you have to agree to a license agreement with a mouse click during installation with some products has no effect on you rights.

The argumentation usually is, that software is a retail good as any other and you can sell it like you car or you washing machine. Respecting the fact that you do not still hold copies after the deal, I join the opinion that not really a convincing reason why you should not sell something away that you do not like or need anymore.

Horst.

[Robert Kral]

Thought I\'d throw this into the mix:

I recently purchased a few CDs from the British company: AMG.

I was surprized to find I had to PHYSICALLY sign a CONTRACT with them in order to use the sounds in a tv soundtrack (same for any commercial use).

In many ways I think this is good because it spells it out VERY clearly: often some of us probably buy these CD libraries with no idea about how the licensing works or that there even is a such a thing as a license. AMG\'s approach makes it very clear because you need to download their license agreement, then mail the signed document back to them.

Sure it\'s a bit of a hassle: but when you read a contract and then sign it and drop it in the mail, well, you sure remember it!

What are other sound developer\'s thoughts on that approach?

[This message has been edited by Robert Kral (edited 05-07-2001).]

[nigel]

Wakey.wakey!
The world has changed.

Sampling IS pirating!

Sampling IS stealing!

Sampling is taking from the few to give to the masses.

THE \"IMMORAL\" OF THIS STORY IS...
\"...don\'t shoot a gift horse in the mouth!\"

...or is it;
\"...never look down the wrong end of a
horse!\"

It\'s quite simple,
help others that help yourself
that help you to help yourself
that help
to help
you.

Do you need any help?

[Robert Kral]

Nigel,

If your above post was directed to me, then, yes, I need help. Perhaps you can help me.

I need you to record a symphony orchestra, lots of runs, clusters, phrases. Maybe you could compose all the phrases for me, do all the orchestration and part writing, or hire somebody to do that of course. Record it on the latest gear, and make great Giga patches out of it. Should cost you at least $20,000 for the type of library I have in mind.

But cost doesn\'t matter, because YOU\'LL be paying for it, and I\'ll be pirating it.

wakey wakey enough?!
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

(just poking fun and trying to make a point. Sampling for the masses is a wonderful thing, but not with PIRATING when you\'re the one doing all the hard work that\'s being stolen.

[Blob]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert Kral:
[B]Nigel,

But cost doesn\'t matter, because YOU\'LL be paying for it, and I\'ll be pirating it.


Can you send me a copy http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

Good point though...

The laws do seem to be stacked in the developers favour (it also seems like they make \'em up as they go along http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif perhaps this has something to do with piracy (aarg jim lad...captain pugwash!..sea-man stains..master bates...how did they get away with that?...on the BBC as well..\'s no wonder i grew up strange!) or maybe not.

I have just ordered Dan Dean (solo strings..not actually \'Dan\',he was busy fixing his truck http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif yellow tools pure guitars,a couple of Xsample disks (5,10-12) etc..if this thread has taught me anything (quite a lot really) it is that i will be reading the \'agreement\' thoroughly and if i don\'t \'agree\' they are going back to the supplier...as i see it ,this is my only \'defence\' against unworkable licience agreements

[nigel]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert Kral:
Nigel,

If your above post was directed to me, then, yes, I need help. Perhaps you can help me.

I need you to record a symphony orchestra, lots of runs, clusters, phrases. Maybe you could compose all the phrases for me, do all the orchestration and part writing, or hire somebody to do that of course. Record it on the latest gear, and make great Giga patches out of it. Should cost you at least $20,000 for the type of library I have in mind.

But cost doesn\'t matter, because YOU\'LL be paying for it, and I\'ll be pirating it.

wakey wakey enough?!
http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

(just poking fun and trying to make a point. Sampling for the masses is a wonderful thing, but not with PIRATING when you\'re the one doing all the hard work that\'s being stolen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure.
Why not.
My fee is 60K!

No, my reply was not directed specifically at you.

My point was...
...try looking at it from a different angle...

....I\'m sitting in my studio,
and I need a particular sample.

...I don\'t understand what the hell is going on with this crazy software
...so I pay for a wizard.He puts it all over my keyboard and I start writing.

We are all \"pirates\"...If I employ someone
to cut throats...then he desires to be paid
for cutting throats.

I don\'t then try and sell on the throats he has cut for me!!!!

There\'s no point sitting on the fence
... or you\'ll only end up with a large
stick of wood up your arse!!