Turning brass to gold -first attempt

[G-Sun]

Hi!
I'm a new Jabb3-user, an decided I'll run a little test-project first to learn basic skills. Hoping you could help me along the way :)

I'm focusing on a small horn-section, using
- Trumpet1 (open)
- Trombone1 (open) and
- C Melody Sax 1

I've made a directory where you can find all files:
http://g-sun.no/Upload/Jabb3/One/

Included:
- Reaper project-file (Jabb3-test1.RPP)
- Mix1 (mp3)

The DAW is Reaper latest rc:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22836
(will be replaced by ordinary releases when version 4 is out)

So, can you help me out?
What are the basic techniques I need to add to this piece, to turn it into gold (golden brass that is :D )

[G-Sun]

Looking like this:
http://g-sun.no/Upload/Jabb3/One/images/Owerview.png
and this:
http://g-sun.no/Upload/Jabb3/One/images/Aria.png

[G-Sun]

First I need to get the mod-wheel-movements right.
I tended to use the mod wheel as vibrato, but that's not the best technique, right?

So, are there any basic tutorials for mod-wheel on brass? Tips?

[jdsnyderii]

First I need to get the mod-wheel-movements right.
I tended to use the mod wheel as vibrato, but that's not the best technique, right?

So, are there any basic tutorials for mod-wheel on brass? Tips?

I would really start with the Tom Hopkins tutorials (click here (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/45965-JABB-Demos-Sonar-and-MIDI-files)). There are SONAR files and MIDI files that should show you some of the basic techniques. I also coverted the projects to JABB3 (because they are the older JABB Kontakt player files), but the MIDI files should work OK to give you ideas.

[jdsnyderii]

First I need to get the mod-wheel-movements right.
I tended to use the mod wheel as vibrato, but that's not the best technique, right?

So, are there any basic tutorials for mod-wheel on brass? Tips?

I also posted the beginnings of a JABB3 project (String of Pearls (http://www.box.net/shared/efi7qo8rejc9omho8lfk)). It has an MP3, plus the MIDI file and 3 Aria Ensemble files (so you can easily map the tracks to the correct Aria settings).

There are Sax and Brass techniques in there that should help some.

[G-Sun]

I would really start with the Tom Hopkins tutorials (click here (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/45965-JABB-Demos-Sonar-and-MIDI-files)). There are SONAR files and MIDI files that should show you some of the basic techniques. I also coverted the projects to JABB3 (because they are the older JABB Kontakt player files), but the MIDI files should work OK to give you ideas.
Thanks, that's an excellent idea. I find those pieces outstanding.
So, if I can undrstand those, then I'm most certainly on the right track.
You don't happen to have the Jabb3-versions of them to share?

[G-Sun]

I also posted the beginnings of a JABB3 project (String of Pearls (http://www.box.net/shared/efi7qo8rejc9omho8lfk)). It has an MP3, plus the MIDI file and 3 Aria Ensemble files (so you can easily map the tracks to the correct Aria settings).

There are Sax and Brass techniques in there that should help some.
Thanks a lot! Well, no offense, but Tom Hopkins' demos sounds a bit better. So, I'll go for those first.

[jdsnyderii]

Thanks a lot! Well, no offense, but Tom Hopkins' demos sounds a bit better. So, I'll go for those first.

I have been corresponding with Tom, I am actually waiting on him to "approve" the conversion. Since they are his demos, I don't want to just send them out. They should come from Garritan since they are their demos. The reason I posted the String of Pearls files (and yes I agree Tom's are better) is that you can have the ensemble, MIDI, and Sonar files without having to wait for an update to the demos.

[G-Sun]

My first impression on the mix above is that the sax sounded worse than trumpet and trombone.
Is it harder to get a good sax-sound out of JABB3?
I was told that this was a general thing for sampled sax. So, maybe I'll leave the sax out of my default brass section..

[G-Sun]

Else, I'm closing up this thread-project.
I'll do as I do with most instruments: Rehearse 30min and start recording :)

[jdsnyderii]

My first impression on the mix above is that the sax sounded worse than trumpet and trombone.
Is it harder to get a good sax-sound out of JABB3?
I was told that this was a general thing for sampled sax. So, maybe I'll leave the sax out of my default brass section..

Getting a blended sax section is tough...even with real instruments. In the above mix, the 1940s sound is what I was going for, but it does require some skill to work up to (clearly I am still not there ;).

If you have one or two saxes with brass, it should sound fine with a bit of practice. Don't forget you will likely need to mess with an EQ somewhere in the mix.

Here is a quick 8 bars of a funk (http://www.box.net/shared/8shnqx67dnahlutqud7z) pattern I did just to give you an alternative. If you want the MIDI file for this. Let me know (Sonar and Mp3 there for now).

It has 1 alto sax, 1 tenor sax, 1 bari sax, 3 trumpets and 2 trombones.

[G-Sun]

Getting a blended sax section is tough...even with real instruments. In the above mix, the 1940s sound is what I was going for, but it does require some skill to work up to (clearly I am still not there ;).

If you have one or two saxes with brass, it should sound fine with a bit of practice. Don't forget you will likely need to mess with an EQ somewhere in the mix.

Here is a quick 8 bars of a funk (http://www.box.net/shared/8shnqx67dnahlutqud7z) pattern I did just to give you an alternative. If you want the MIDI file for this. Let me know (Sonar and Mp3 there for now).

It has 1 alto sax, 1 tenor sax, 1 bari sax, 3 trumpets and 2 trombones.
Not, bad :) Maybe I should try the saxes a little more. Thanks a lot!

[Bassist]

I must be missing something. I have Garritan from Finale and everything
sounds like MIDI.

How do you tweak the sounds to make them sound closer to real? Could
someone provide a step by step? This is losing me.

I thought the brass sounded good String of Pearls but the saxes sounded
like MIDI.

[jdsnyderii]

I must be missing something. I have Garritan from Finale and everything
sounds like MIDI.

How do you tweak the sounds to make them sound closer to real? Could
someone provide a step by step? This is losing me.

I thought the brass sounded good String of Pearls but the saxes sounded
like MIDI.

I am working on a project that kinda gets the sax stuff demonstrated. When I am done, I will post a link to it.

Also there are demos (for example Ian Bellamy (http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php/44711-IAIN-BALLAMY-SAX-SOLO-A-Garritan-Jazz-and-Big-Band-Study)) that will let you see how the MIDI stuff works for the sax.

Getting good sax sounds out of Finale is pretty difficult. For somethings, you will just have to play it, and for that, I highly recommend and EWI or some other wind controller. There are posts here that demonstrate that. I can post a MIDI generated from the EWI here if that will help.

[voclizr]

If you're still following this, I'd ditch the C Melody sax for Tenor 1. IMHO it sounds much better.

John B.