Question about AO, Xsample and QL Brass

[Jose Pereira]

Hi People!
Can anybody tell me if the trumpets in AO and Xsample are more suitable (ff to fff, edgy sound) for pop music than QL Brass? I own QL and think that the Trombones and Saxes are OK for pop, but the trumpets (all of them) are too soft, mellow playing for a piercing brass section (ala Earth, wind and fire) The demos from those libraries aren´t so convincent to me, so, please any suggestion or comment will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance to anyone
Jose

[Haydn]

Neither library has what you\'re looking for. The Xsample trumpet is not bright enough and I only use it for lower notes. The AO trumpet is better for orchestral type compositions. It does not have a FFF sound and is lacking in other articulations. Hope this helps.

[Jose Pereira]

Thanks Haydn
So, Are we alone with this need??? Is there any workaround? It´s amazing that there are a lot of excellent orchestral brass libraries, but no one at least serviceable for pop.
Hey sound developers, don´t you see that there is a market for this kind of material?
Haven´t any of your customers complaint that their material (AO,Xsample, QL, etc.) don´t work in other style than classical? (at least the trumpets)
Any one else want to talk? Any one have a reazonable solution?
Thanks again and good luck to everyone!
Jose

[OH]

Hi Jose!

I\'m fully of your opinion. Jazz/Rock/Pop aren\'t very well covered. There seenm to be just film composers out there... have you tried Brass super section??? I don\'t own it yet but it might help you out for now. It is very very cheap (price). Download a demo from http://www.bestservice.de (\"http://www.bestservice.de\") (click: instruments & then Brass Super Section). Let me know what you think...



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O.H.

[Jose Pereira]

Hi OH
Forget Brass Super Section!! The sound isn´t so bad but any instrument cover only one octave and the stereo is very bad: any note is out of balance (in every instrument). I also have the Killer Brass Section but it is almost licks and the solo instruments sound ugly. The QL brass is the best in saxes and trombones but the trumpets are too soft.
Good Luck OH and if you find something let me know!!
Jose

[Jose Pereira]

Hey Haydn, tell me something: Have you the three libraries (AO, xsample, QL)? Are the AO and xsample solo trumpets a little more bright than QL?
Thanks
Jose

[OH]

>Forget Brass Super Section!! Good Luck OH and if you find something let me know!!<

Thanks much for the warning, Jose. Money saved for something different!!!

Dan Dean recently mentioned that he might work on a more pop-orientated brass library in the future. Hope he will.





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O.H.

[astrt4]

Quantum Leap has the brightest trumpet samples of the three (especially in terms of attack). I don\'t suppose you could figure out a way to use the QLB jazz trumpet for your needs by eliminating the softer layers of the instrument? Who knows, maybe even playing around with a high pass filter could help. I\'m not sure if it\'s still up, but a while ago when IOComposer was demonstrating his GigaBrass set, he put up a short comparison in the user demo section which did a side-by-side comparison of his trumpet and the AO solo F trumpet. You could at least hear the AO trumpet that way.

[Jose Pereira]

Hello Again!
Thanks for your comments.
Look OH, Mr Dean wrote to this forum saying that is an Orchestral library (Another one...) At least, a honest word.
And astr4, thanks for your reply. Believe me, I have tried EVERYTHING to made those sampled trumpets usable. No, don´t work.
Thanks Again, anybody else want to talk?
Jose

[Jose Pereira]

Hey OH
Well man, I was there for almost an hour and I only find the Jason Miles Horn Library samples and some from David Franke. Ugh! I know those libraries since 1995. Is only brass sections. Nah!
Keep trying!

[OH]

>Keep trying![/B][/QUOTE]<

Oh damn. I feel ashamed. I had hoped to be of help. From now on I keep my mouth shut...

Good luck, Jose




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O.H.

[Haydn]

The QLB trumpet has a brighter attack but the sustain portion of the AO trumpet is brighter. This can get irritating after awhile though. It would be nice to be able to control the sustain portion but I have not heard a library that can do this like the real thing!

[OH]

>Look OH, Mr Dean wrote to this forum saying that is an Orchestral library (Another one...) At least, a honest word.<

He also states:
\"Pop... such a collection is being discussed and might be done in the future.\"

This is what I meant!!! Hope our discussion encourages him to do it.



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O.H.

[OH]

>Thanks Again, anybody else want to talk?<

Jose. I recently came across: http://www.sonomic.com (\"http://www.sonomic.com\")

They have a very very large online-library of samples. There might be something usable for you, but I don\'t know for sure, as for some reason I can\'t download the sound-demos...

Let me know what you think

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O.H.

[Jose Pereira]

Hi Haydn
So the trumpet in AO is like a subtle crescendo?
And the ensamble trumpets too? Damn!
Where, where at least can we find an usable trumpet??
Thanks anyway.
And OH, please don´t worry, I hope that somebody can give us some advice.
Take care everyone
Jose

[Damon]

I\'m beginning to think, although I still love Gigastudio, that getting real players to come in and play is the key (wish I could afford it). Especially for solo instruments and small string ensembles. It\'s really getting to be to much work spending a couple weeks perfecting a 3 minute song so it sounds completely realistic. My musical ideas and creativity are fleeting because of all of the technical work I have to put in tweaking out velocity notes, recording a violin over and over again to get the expression just right with the mod wheel (I spent almost 1 hour doing a 32 bar violin phrase last night just to get it to sound humanly expressive, it still doesn\'t.)
I\'d love to know how James Newton Howard and those guys create such incredible midi mock-ups with the deadlines they are under and conduct an entire orchestra!
Sorry to sound overly dramatic, just been kinda frustrated lately.

[dandean]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OH:
[B]>Look OH, Mr Dean wrote to this forum saying that is an Orchestral library (Another one...) At least, a honest word.<

He also states:
\"Pop... such a collection is being discussed and might be done in the future.\"

Greetings,

I noticed this post and thought I\'d take a moment to respond. Right now, we\'re in the hopefully final few days of the QC on the Woodwinds. I\'m shooting for the 2nd or 3rd week of March to have at least 100 sets ready for shipping. I should be close on this timeline. There will be 10 disks in the set.

Since I am in the studio nearly all my waking hours (except the last 2 days when I was released on my own recognizance and was allowed to play some jazz gigs - a rarity), I have finished up about 50% of the Solo Brass sessions. So far, there are Tenor Trombone, Bass Trombone, Tuba and Cimbasso in the can, ready for programming. I went for 8 layers with most instruments. If its ff and fff you want, you shall have it. There are samples with definate zizz in the top layers.

After this Solo Brass Project is complete, there is one more project on the books before I can take a look at the pop brass project. Once it has been accomplished, I will most definately look at a pop brass disk or disks, as I feel there is a market for great pop brass. There has been equal interest in Section Orchestral Brass, which I also plan to produce.

I am hopeful that the Dan Dean Solo Woodwinds will be well received so that I am able to continue making great products.

I\'d like to take this opportunity to thank all of you who have purchased my sample libraries for your support. Also, thank you for your emails and comments on the Solo Strings and Giga Bass collections. I genuinely do like to hear from you. And by the way, thanks for referring to me as \"Mr. Dean\" in your posts.

Sincerely,
Dan Dean

[SCARBEE]

Hi Mr. Dean!

I really look forward to your pop-brass. I will buy one for sure!
Keep up the good work...

Thomas Hansen Skarbye

PS.Will you come to Frankfurt Musicmesse?

[OH]

>And OH, please don´t worry, I hope that somebody can give us some advice.<

Although I said I shut up... I have to raise my voice once again:

First of all. Mr. Dean: It would be most brilliant if you give us the very much needed Pop-Library. I\'d be more than just glad to get more Jazz/Rock/Pop-instruments of any kind... I decided to get your bass library soon...

Jose: There is a software program you might want to give a try. It changes formats very musically. On their webpage they have an example of changing a trumpet into a trombone (listen and tell me if you think it to be convincing enough). O.k. This program isn\'t that cheap, but in case you have a trombone that gives you what you would want from a trumpet you could simply \"translate\" it into one and use for further work.

Let me know



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O.H.

[OH]

PS: I forgot to mention their address:
http://www.celemony.com (\"http://www.celemony.com\")



[This message has been edited by OH (edited 02-26-2001).]

[astrt4]

In reference to the Celemony site posted above, I don\'t think people have quite started to realize what Melodyne is going to do to the industry. I\'ve been watching it for the last couple of months, and I\'m convinced they have a product which will completely change everything.

[dandean]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SCARBEE:
Hi Mr. Dean!

I really look forward to your pop-brass. I will buy one for sure!
Keep up the good work...

Thomas Hansen Skarbye

PS.Will you come to Frankfurt Musicmesse?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Thomas,
I would love to, but I\'m too busy final tweaking the solo WW\'s and recording the solo brass. Maybe next year. It has been way too long since the last trip to Europe.
Later,
Dan Dean

[Nick Phoenix]

Regarding the Melodyne software, Have you heard the demos? The demos I heard were loaded with artifacts. The Roland VP-9000 seems to sound better to me. Ofcourse, plugin software is much easier to use than a hardware unit. The Melodyne software has great features also.
What do you guys mean when you say \"Pop Brass\"? I take that to mean Tower of Power type stuff and anything that would be heard on a rock/r&b/pop tune. This thread is a little misleading, because there are libraries out there that cover some of this quite well. One person\'s opinion does\'nt negate hundreds of other opinions. That\'s not to say that the statements above concerning bright trumpets are\'nt true. That is just one part of the whole picture.

[OH]

>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nick Phoenix:
[B]Regarding the Melodyne software, Have you heard the demos? The demos I heard were loaded with artifacts. The Roland VP-9000 seems to sound better to me. Ofcourse, plugin software is much easier to use than a hardware unit. The Melodyne software has great features also.<

I honestly can\'T say just how much can be said from a MP3.demo, but there is always room to improvement, isn\'T there. All I can say is: Roland\'s unit is about 3 times as expensive and aloows just 4 minutes to be recorded. Melodyne allows 20 tracks at once and allows to later incorporate audio-material into midi-data if necessary etc. etc. etc

Regarding Pop-Brass I personally would only say: I want more of everything to better choose from.

regards

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O.H.

[Jose Pereira]

[
What do you guys mean when you say \"Pop Brass\"? I take that to mean Tower of Power type stuff and anything that would be heard on a rock/r&b/pop tune. This thread is a little misleading, because there are libraries out there that cover some of this quite well. One person\'s opinion does\'nt negate hundreds of other opinions. That\'s not to say that the statements above concerning bright trumpets are\'nt true. That is just one part of the whole picture.[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Mr Phoenix! Please tell me where is those sounds! At least a fff trumpet with an overblown timbre and I pay ANYTHING for it.
Not only Tower of Power, but Earth wind, and fire (more overblowed) or any actual Salsa band (the same overblowed) Believe me Sir, I almost purchase any brass library out there (including your QL) and are far out of the usable. Yes, there are a lot of riff and loops, but that don´t work every time (well, to me never).
When will you start to produce the QL Brass 2? If you put that only sound for shure I purchase it right now!!
All this controversy started because in my country (Venezuela) there isn´t enough good trumpet players (at least good readers) capable of some dificult lines. I always use real players for my works but I´m tired always figthing with them (only 2 people here) for their fees and availability. I have works waiting for almost a year to complete, so if I find a workaround with a sampler and a medium player my clients will be as happy as with the good ones.
Any way, anybody else knew any brass library I could use????
Thanks a lot to everybody and Good Luck
Regards
Jose

[Jose Pereira]

. You have been most persistent.[/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry for that Mr Phoenix! And please, don´t take me wrong, is because I´m so frustrated in the last 4 years trying to live here. Thanks for your help and I really appreciate it.I´ll send you an email in 3 months.

Take Care
Jose Pereira

[porpherio]

I have also wanted a good trumpet set for doing Chicago and Blood,Sweat and Tears type music,and I have never heard anything even close to being usable.
I have just started using Giga and am learning how to make instruments.I have made a few simple retro synths from free samples that I have found on the net.
I can play the trumpet and I have a Bach in the closet that I have not played in a while.
I have a good tone,but I don\'t have the chops of a pro player,of course.This discussion has inspired me to get the horn out and experiment with some sampling.I can\'t hit the super-high notes,but I have a few tools that I think could be used to raise the pitch and still sound natural.
I will do some experimentation and see what kind of results I can come up with.I will go to work on it and report back to the forum when I have some results.

Porpherio

[Nick Phoenix]

Right now there aren\'t FFF trumpets available in any library. Jose, please send me an email in about 3 months and I will send you the new trumpet patches. You have been most persistent.