Leaving

[donnie]

Due to unfortunate circumstances I feel that it is best if I leave this forum. It seems that it always the person who is trying to help that gets made the villian. I had a feeling that this may be the outcome but I felt strongly enough about the cause to take the chance. My presence on this board was for two reason\'s.

1. try to help people whenever I could. People who have been on here know that I have helped many people anyway I could.

2. provide information on my products and alow users to give feedback in the products that we produce. This is the one where I really have to scratch my head. We are one of the only companies that do this. You think people would be happy about that. I guess not.

It sadens me to see people post messages asking me to be taken off this board when they do not know the whole story. The issue with Sonic Control is one that I, and others less vocal, take very seriously. The fact remains that illegal posts are made on his site and he does not take them down. My only satisfaction in this matter is taking solice that most of the people know the truth.

Thanks to all the people who support our products and what we stand for. We will continue to release quality products for gigastudio. If anyone would like to contact me or Sean you can do so through our website.

Oh, and before anyone jumps on after this and says that I am looking for pity, I am not. I don\'t operate like that. I just feel that, for people new to the forum or do not know the whole story, this could give a negative image of myself and my company.

Sincerely,

Donnie Christian
DS Soundware http://www.dssoundware.com (\"http://www.dssoundware.com\")

[stez]

Donnie,,

Dont let one commend bother you too much..
I dont put many posts on this forum, but i sure like to read them.. Including yours and im sure im not the only one..

I say STAY!!

stez

[GigaBeliever2]

I second that. Being able to have a public forum where GigaUsers and GigaSample creators can have a dialog discussing previous/future releases is very helpful.

DS Soundware is in my opinion one of the premiere sample creators for GigaStudio. Don\'t let some bad apples ruin it for everybody else that enjoys your posts!

Keep up the excellent sampling,
John

[ursatz]

Donnie,

I hope you\'ll reconsider. We all benefit enormously when sample makers stay in close contact with their users. I\'m a *very* happy user of UOP, and - not to discount the plain hard work that obviously went into it - part of its quality and usability must be due to your interactions with users here. It\'s a big step to give that up.

[Simon Ravn]

Yeah Donnie, just stick around. I like to be able to ask questions or post suggestions here, instead of by email, because it gives opportunity for everybody to have a say about the subject. I don\'t like your personal fights here, I must admit and I never thought the review at Sonicstate was untrue or negative. UOP is the best library of its kind today for sure and I can\'t wait to get the other libraries you\'ll be producing. However I\'d prefer you sped up on doing the winds library instead of the drum library http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif With Gigastrings and Ultimate Orch. Winds we would finally have a new generation of orchestral samples covering the whole range. Oh well, maybe we still lack great choir samples (Elfman style, more aggresive and boys/girls choir), but the rest seems to be getting covered soon.

Simon

[Simon Ravn]

Yeah Donnie, just stick around. I like to be able to ask questions or post suggestions here, instead of by email, because it gives opportunity for everybody to have a say about the subject. I don\'t like your personal fights here, I must admit and I never thought the review at Sonicstate was untrue or negative. UOP is the best library of its kind today for sure and I can\'t wait to get the other libraries you\'ll be producing. However I\'d prefer you sped up on doing the winds library instead of the drum library http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif With Gigastrings and Ultimate Orch. Winds we would finally have a new generation of orchestral samples covering the whole range. Oh well, maybe we still lack great choir samples (Elfman style, more aggresive and boys/girls choir), but the rest seems to be getting covered soon.

Simon

[lanesp]

OK, I\'ve been intentionally avoiding putting in my two cents. As most of you can see all you have to do to get Donnie (whom I have known for years) going is to call him out. While it is my personality to ignore that which can do me no harm, it is definitely not Donnie\'s. I like to keep myself above the fray of those who\'s opinion will be deminished by their own doing. Donnie loves the fight; push him and the gloves will come off. He belives stongly in what he is doing to the point that he will defend it to the bitter end and generally does not stop there (I just hope he does not find any dirt on me http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif). I suppose that we are the yen and yang (sp?) of DS Soundware, perhaps keeping the company on an even keel toward a continuously productive being.

Donnie, relax. People know our work. It speaks for itself. It defends itself.

Ryan, if you truly feel that Donnie\'s remarks are unjust, get the post after post pertaining to pirated samples and software off your site and give him nothing to back up his accusations. These forums are a great opportunity for folks in our industry to communicate and make things better for all of us. When they are used to promote illegal practices they become damaging to the business that supports our career and hobies. When sample libraries are sold for $1K per disk to cover pirating costs, none of us win. Defend your character by demonstrating it to us.

Both of you, when you put yourself in the spotlight, you are opening yourself to all kinds of criticism. Like it or not, that is part of the gig.

Sean Lane
DS Soundware

[Hans Adamson]

Donnie,

Why not open your own forum at your website?

There you could:

1. try to help people whenever you could.

2. provide information on your products and allow users to give feedback in the products that you produce.

I am sure the extra workload would be well worth it in terms of increased sales. Certainly you have the server resources, and following for this. Just remember to monitor every post for illegal activities.

Best regards,
Hans

[lanesp]

Hey, wait a second. When you guys (Donnie and Ryan) do this, Ryan\'s site get more hits and we sell more sample cd\'s. Oh, I get it . . . you are shrewd! Why didn\'t you let me in on this?

Sean

[lanesp]

Hans,

We do in fact now have such a forum on our site. It was added with the recent site change. If you have not recently been to the site, check out our new look!
http://www.dssoundware.com (\"http://www.dssoundware.com\")

And if you are looking to swap samples, we\'ll swap you a UOP for about $299.

Sean

[Synth2k]

Hi Sean,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>
Ryan, if you truly feel that Donnie\'s remarks are unjust, get the post after post pertaining to pirated samples and software off your site and give him nothing to back up his accusations. These forums are a great opportunity for folks in our industry to communicate and make things better for all of us. When they are used to promote illegal practices they become damaging to the business that supports our career and hobies. When sample libraries are sold for $1K per disk to cover pirating costs, none of us win. Defend your character by demonstrating it to us.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Donnie\'s concerns about such threads are just, and they were removed (even the last one that was in question). We just can\'t monitor threads real-time and remove such questionable threads immediately. It\'s a voluntary service that we provide by doing this as time permits. I have no problem with the concerns that certain threads regarding illegal pirating bring. I agree, it hurts everyone.

What I do have a problem with is the defamatory and slanderous personal attacks and flames that have been evidently made towards SC and myself. They are false and to any rational-minded person they are clearly uncalled for. There is just no reason for it.

Ryan.

------------------
Sonic Control
www..com (\"http://www..com\")
Giga Users Network at
www..com/gigasampler/ (\"http://www..com/gigasampler/\")

[Boydbob]

Donnie and Ryan

I appreciate the Sonic Control site. It\'s one of a very few good sources of information and reviews. I like to read reviews of Software and Sounds that I am interested in, along with demo\'s, and other users thoughts on the products.

I was also VERY impressed with the Ultimate Percussion demo. I was very favorably impressed with the review I saw from Sonic Control. I expect to buy the libary as soon as I can.

Regarding the piracy issue; I suscribe to the belief that you reap what you sow. If I invest my heart and my life into my music, and I pay my for what I use, I have a right to expect that what I do will be blessed.
On the other hand, if I cheat and steal from others, then I can expect to be cheated out of my work, and have my reward stolen from me.
It is difficult enough to succeed with music, whatever you may choose to define as success, without setting the basic principles of life against yourself.
There will always be those who cheat and steal, but in the end, their own ways will bite them like a serpent.

Boyd

[Charles-Valentin Alkan]

An exit worthy of Joan Crawford!

The question of sample piracy got me wondering: what is the legal posture of the corporations that manufacture musical instruments--such as Steinway, Boesendorfer, Yamaha, Bach, Haynes, Heckel, Zjildian, and all of those percussion instrument brands that Donnie identifies on UOP--toward the manufacturers of sample CDs? Do the instrument makers object to the appropriation of their instruments\' characteristic sonorities without permission, the sale of their characteristic sonorities by others for profit, and the exploitation of their brand names on the sample CD covers and advertising?

Curiously, one participant in another topic area got very irate at the very idea that someone might try to make samples out of each note and word that Elvis recorded. Evidently, it is unethical and perhaps illegal to make a sample out of Elvis singing the word \"hound\" on a B-flat; but one can sell a Steinway B-flat with impugnity. Or is even a mention of the musical instrument manufacturer\'s name on the CD and its advertising a violation of trademark rights?

Regards,
Alkan


[This message has been edited by Charles-Valentin Alkan (edited 01-13-2001).]

[Nick Phoenix]

Donnie,
I can relate to what you are feeling in terms of defending your library. I was very defensive when I completed QL Brass and began to hear critisism. Eventually, though, that defensiveness faded and I realized that I shouldnt take things too seriously and that everyone is entitled to an opinion. People should realize that putting out a sample library tends to make the developer temporarily crazy. I think that your library and my own are much better than what was previously available, but that doesn\'t mean they are perfect. We are both working on sequels or upgrades for exactly that reason. Usually, there is some logic to what people are saying. You should remain on this forum and forget about Sonic Control. You are just advertising the site which you loathe so much anyway ( a site pretty much unknown to the general sampling public ). I agree, though, that the pirating issue is a huge problem and I think that Sonic Control should do more to stop those posts. We need more people on this forum, not less.

[Chadwick]

Donnie,

Please don\'t leave the forum. One of the most interesting things about this site is the very occasional opportunity to glimpse an insight into the inspiration, work and dedication which goes into putting a sample library together.

If you can look past the noise made by those who are too quick with a flame or negative comment, you\'ll see that there are a lot of us who really appreciate what you do, and what you have to offer us. The quality and extent of library you guys have developed in a short time speaks louder than anything anyone else could offer.

I know you\'re worried about how some threads would look to a newcomer, but don\'t let one or two loudmouths spoil it for the rest of us.

I for one appreciate being able to come to one place for most of my Giga related info. I\'d prefer not to do too much more hopping around for my news, and I know you also feel that this is a good spot to disseminate new release info as well as hints, opinions etc.,

I hope your decision isn\'t final. It\'d be a serious loss to the forum, no matter what some of the faceless, unqualified, unaccountable, self-appointed judiciary might have to say.

Regardless of what you do, I\'ll keep track of DS Soundware via the website.

Good luck.

Rick

[food4thought]

I am sorry, but you hit a sensitive string here so I need to post my opinion.

First of all Donnie, I believe that your profile in this forum will most of all have an impact on what people think about YOU. It\'s your *products* and *customer support* that will speak for your COMPANY. We need to make this clear.... You may as well be making some awesome products and be an a**hole at the same time (for the sake of example). These are two different things which I believe everybody with basic brain functionality easily understands. I am not acquainted with (or interested in) your products, so just take this post strictly personally.

I do not wish you to leave this forum, I think it is foolish for anyone to ask anyone to leave the forum unless the functionality/purpose of the forum is compromised. Simple as that. The person who requested your departure has caused me nothing contempt towards him.

On the other hand, I do think that you have gone too far. I do not know you personally, I do not know the real Donnie and how wonderful a person you may be in real life... but the image you have created in here is not the best I\'m afraid.

You have the right to be every bit of <insert name calling here> you want. You may think you are so important that you should advertise publicly the services you have offered to fellow users here, how helpful and how good you are, how you have been made the villain while in fact you are not, and even devote a separate thread just to announce your (temporary I am sure) departure.

On your quest to self-projection though, you forgot to realize that there are also other people who have a personality and a business of their own that at least deserve a tiny bit of respect. I am talking about the Sonic Control deal and the guys behind it, which you so easily like to attack publicly in forums like this one. It was with such a great amazement I saw you bring forward personal arguments with the guys there, to the light of the forum visitors.

And all this comedy-act, that still goes on today, started for what?.... because you did not like the review the guys made on your oh-most-perfect work! Can anyone think of a better example for the term \'pathetic\' than this one?

Anyway... I won\'t go on any longer, I believe you get the point. The thing is, you shouldn\'t go on any more about it either... maybe fellow forum users are not interested in this ordeal of yours anymore. I have maximum respect for the people at SC, especially after the whole deal and the way they approached the matter (as opposed to you).

So, I end it here... I wish you good luck and may life teach you how to treat others the same way you demand others treat you.

....

PS. And here\'s a hit below the belt... www..com (\"http://www..com\") <-- great site! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

[GigaBeliever2]

No good can come from continuing this thread...

[astrt4]

I think it only fair to point out that Donnie has claimed all along that it was not the score he received on the library that is the source of his frustrations.

[Thomas_J]

I agree with Nick. I think this forum would suffer a great loss if you departed and I really hope you will reconsider. I say this even as regular user of this forum, not even owning your UOP library, yet. I don\'t think anyone would have noticed or even cared to dig in on the disagreements you and Ryan have been dealing with, if it hadn\'t been for your posts. In defense of Ryan; He is running a large and very informative site which I visit quite frequently. His gigasampler pages/forum is growing every day and obviously he can\'t monitor posts as often as we\'d like him to. Piracy is inevitable and if it isn\'t happening on Ryan\'s site, you can bet your arse it\'s happening somewhere else. I recall numerous incidents on this site as well. You should stop worrying too much. Your library is excellent and well priced, and it speaks pretty much for itself, as Sean said. Come on guys, surely you have something better to waste your time on, especially you, Donnie! You\'ve promised us a new brass library!! http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Keep up the good work! .. this is getting out of hand..

..Again.

Thomas

[Charles-Valentin Alkan]

Nick Phoenix:

This post has nothing to do with Donnie\'s goodbye. But I gather from your post that you are the producer of Quantum Leap Brass. And so, on the chance that I can grab your attention here in this topic area, I would like to ask you a question about your CD set--which, by the way, sounds great, at least the samples I\'ve heard up to now.

My question is about your samples for the family of saxophones. From what I heard, all of your sax samples are played with lots of vibrato, with big fat tones, some with hard attacks, a bit raucous--in sum, just what is required for modern jazz. But how about the saxophones used in Classical Mmusic. In Debussy\'s Rapsodie pour Saxophone, or Mussorgsky-Ravel\'s Pictures at an Exhibitionm or Villa-Lobos\' Choros No. 8, or Milhaud\'s Creation du monde, or even Gershwin\'s American in Paris, the saxophones are not supposed to be played with the kinds of sonorities I heard on your samples. So how about the Classical saxophone?

Regards,
Alkan

P.S. If you would like to answer this question by starting a new topic, be my guest.

[gigaDiga]

So Donnie,

You see how your valued. Now do you really need to be quite so sensitive and hot headed. Unfortunately this is a community of words and you are my nextdoor neighbour. As such you have often been the noisy neighbour, noisy with words.

Infact I sugested that you leave on a whim... I wanted to see what those words would do... would they solve your ranting or would you blow your top. It was an interesting sociological test and one which, you can see, actually pretty much solved the problem. Your argument ended and everybody expressed how much they valued your input. I think you should be able to sit back now, comfortable with the knowledge that most people on this forum aren\'t out to get you. So there really is no need to be so violent with your language.

Unfortunately in this internet world we do not have the opportunity to see each others body language as we talk. Therefore all we can go on as to each others personalities is simply the words we write. As such we should choose them wisely. Oh god now I\'m beginning to sound like \"Jerry Springers Final Thoughts\".

I, therefore, will add myself to the now long list of people who have said that your HELP is very much respected on this forum, even by myself, but your AGGRESSION is not really appropriate. I myself have often penned an aggressive rant but have exercised self-censorship and chosen not to submit it.

Unfortunately, if you are as impulsive as you seem, you have probably already left this forum just after starting this thread and despite peoples wishes for you to stay.
Certainly it might seem unfair that I picked you out, but in truth you picked yourself out.

If you are, as I hope, still with us.... cool. Maybe we\'ve all learnt something. So lets just get along.
And if you find any of your samples being sold illegally on Ryan\'s site take a law suit out against him, after all he provides the service through which they\'re being sold, and shut him down. That\'s usually how it\'s done isn\'t it.

peace

gigaDiga

[Thomas_J]

What\'s wrong with Jerry Springer\'s Final thoughts?!? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/grin.gif

This is definitely my last input on a Donnie vs. Ryan/among others, feud/fight, call it what you want. Moderator, you should close down this topic immediately, before someone gets really upset. I think we should be very careful not to mess with other peoples feelings, even though it\'s tempting when they come off the way Donnie did. Lets just forgive and forget shall we? What was the big deal anyway?

Thomas

[astrt4]

Hey Donnie, I\'ll make you a deal. If you come back to the forum, I\'ll buy your Ultimate Percussion set. Otherwise my musical endeavors will just have to suffer.