Mach 5

[J. Whaley]

I haven\'t heard anything about this since It\'s release. I\'ve not talked to anyone who\'s using it, I\'ve not heard any developers speaking of it (although I think it converts any of about 500 formats so developers don\'t need to create for it). I guess it\'s just going to be a casualty in the sampler world? I\'m really happy with my EXS 24, and I use it anytime I can over giga. I\'m sure with the new stuff from Kontact and all the Kompakt type collections, we won\'t have to worry about Giga in the future images/icons/smile.gif

[ed hamilton]

It\'s not out yet.
Vaporware.

I couldn\'t wait anymore so I made the jump to logic and exs.

Motu not only lost a buyer for mach 5 but also a performer user of 15 years.

2 things could get me back.
Killer streaming in mach 5.
DP supporting audio units vsti\'s WHILE running DAE.

Neither of these will be implemented anytime soon from what I can gather.

[Nick Batzdorf]

You\'ll probably be able to run a \"generic\" CoreAudio (or whatever the OS X standard is called) sound card while running DAE, but I haven\'t heard that you can run AUs out a Pro Tools interface in DP while also using DAE. Am I wrong?

You can do that in Logic (OS 9 or X) but that\'s because they wrote ESB, a driver that siphons the entire native engine (VST, Logic native, and all) into the DAE-driven mixer.

[ed hamilton]

Christopher,

If you notice, the announcements of support of Pro Tools HD and the Audio Unit announcements are in seperate paraphraphs.

Thats for a good reason.

You will not be able to run DP 4.1 in DAE mode AND use audio units vsti\'s.

I was about to upgrade when the seperation in those announcements caught my eye.

So I called MOTU.

The answer was..... \"well if you want to run audio units soft synths you MUST run DP in MASS mode\" .

I asked if motu had any plans for a logic like bridge that would allow this to work.

Nope.

Then the young tech support kid, who was barely older than my TOTAL YEARS SPENT USING PERFORMER, suggested that using my 192 interface in MAS mode was a better choice.

I had him get the tech supervisor on the phone. I explained to him that I was going to move to Logic just because of this ONE limitation.
His only suggestion was that I write to the President of Motu.

I ordered logic with my next phone call.

Bummed I was.
Headache I had with logic for the first couple days.
Like Yoda I am now typing.

The amazing thing about those conversations was that both guys acted like I was asking for something that NO ONE ELSE ever asked for.
Like it was the most minor thing they ever heard of?

Is that because everybody who runs a similair system already jumped to logic?

When I state that I was a long time performer user........
Mac plus. 1meg ram Dual floppy drives.
One drive held the system and performer.
the other held the sequences.
NO Hard drives at all.
Performer (not digital) 1.1
The conductor track wasn\'t even part of it yet. that came in 1.14
1987?88.
I was just a kid but I loved that system.

I still have it in my basement. every once and awhile I set it up and damn if the mac plus doesn\'t still boot up!!!

How the hell did we ever work on that tiny black and white screen!

If motu added this one feature I would go back to DP.
I did write the letter. I doubt they care.

[Christopher Drake]

well...thats crap....i hear what your saying ed...as soon as I have some down time im going to be checking logic out...im amazed you even got through to talk to someone on the phone over there!

[Christopher Drake]

Originally posted by Sharmy:
I\'m still on DP but have started the move over to Logic and completed my firsrt cut yesterday. I plan to be running both for a while but hopefully soon be out of DP. I\'m a 10 year user. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">How are you adjusting Sharmy? is it headache inducing like it was for Ed? (im only a 6 year user, but i know DP in & out) Do you feel logic is a better program to DP, or just a good program with a solid company backing it?

[tomhartman]

I can assure everyone M5 is NOT vaporware.

I can\'t say much other than to state that it is being used on a daily basis by testers.

This is not much different than the \"next week\" promised by NI for disk streaming on the Mac, which finally came after many many next weeks, and still doesn\'t work (on my setup anyway). NI wanted to \"get it right,\" and so does MOTU.

[Christopher Drake]

Originally posted by ed hamilton:
It\'s not out yet.
Vaporware.

I couldn\'t wait anymore so I made the jump to logic and exs.

Motu not only lost a buyer for mach 5 but also a performer user of 15 years.

2 things could get me back.
Killer streaming in mach 5.
DP supporting audio units vsti\'s WHILE running DAE.

Neither of these will be implemented anytime soon from what I can gather. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hey Ed...no word on Mach 5, but 4.1 wont let you run Au vsti\'s while running DAE?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

MOTU ANNOUNCES DP 4.1 UPDATE WITH PRO TOOLS DAE SUPPORT, AUDIO UNITS PLUG-IN
SUPPORT AND INSTRUMENT TRACKS

Print-ready and web-ready product images are here:

http://www.motu.com/marketing/motu_products/software/digital_performer_4.0/ (\"http://www.motu.com/marketing/motu_products/software/digital_performer_4.0/\")

MACWORLD CREATIVE PRO SHOW - JACOB JAVITZ CENTER, NEW YORK, NY - Wednesday,
July 16, 2003. MOTU, Inc. (www.motu.com) announced Digital Performer 4.1, a
free update for Version 4.0 users that supports the Digidesign Audio Engine
(DAE) and runs Audio Units plug-ins and virtual instruments. The update will
also include numerous other enhancements such as new virtual instrument
tracks.

Pro Tools DAE support
Digital Performer 4.1 can serve as a complete software front-end for a Pro
Tools HD or Mix system, giving users full access to their TDM plug-ins and
automated Pro Tools mixing environment. DP4.1 supports fully expanded Pro
Tools systems at any sample rate up to 192kHz. Users can take advantage of
DP4.1\'s powerful MIDI sequencing features in combination with their Pro
Tools power-on-demand audio production environment.

Support for Audio Units plug-ins
Audio Units is a new plug-in standard developed by Apple Computer. Digital
Performer 4.1 serves as an Audio Unit (AU) host, in which users can open and
operate as many Audio Unit-compatible plug-ins and virtual instruments as
their computer allows. Many plug-in developers have already shipped AU
versions of their plug-ins, with many more on the way.

Virtual instrument tracks
DP4.1\'s new virtual instrument (VI) tracks give users access to all AU- and
MAS-compatible VI plug-ins installed on their computer. Virtual instrument
tracks are easily created with the following shortcut: the user chooses the
desired instrument directly from the Add Instrument Track command sub-menu.
Or they can choose the desired instrument from the special instrument insert
at the top of the Inserts section in the Mixing Board. The remaining insert
slots provide DSP plug-ins (in both MAS and AU formats), which can be
applied to the virtual instrument\'s output signal. DP 4.1 users can create
as many instrument tracks as they wish, and open as many virtual instruments
as their computer processing resources allow. DP4.1\'s virtual instrument
support provides near-sample accurate timing performance. This means that in
most circumstances (with typical buffer size settings), notes play no more
than a sample earlier or later than the MIDI note that triggers them.

Document templates
DP4.1 allows users to choose from a list of document templates when opening
a new project. For example, one template provides 16 MIDI tracks and 32
audio tracks. Users can create, save, and use their own templates as well.
Document templates not only help users get started more quickly, they serve
as examples for how various types of projects can be set up.

Recent Documents
The new Recent Documents item in DP4.1\'s File menu provides a sub-menu list
of the last ten DP4 projects that have been opened, allowing users to
quickly access recent work.

Shift to Marker
DP4.1\'s shift command now provides an option to shift any selected material
directly to any marker in the project.

Snap to Marker
When the new \'Snap to Marker\' menu item is checked, objects dragged in
DP4.1\'s MIDI and audio graphic editors snap to the nearest marker location
when they approach the marker.

Input/output display in the Mixing Board
In previous versions of Digital Performer, users could access each track\'s
input and output assignments from a menu below the track name. In DP4.1, the
input and output can now be displayed below the track name. Users can choose
to show or hide the input/output display.

OMF file import/export enhancements
DP4.1\'s ability to import and export OMF files has been improved.

Digital Performer 4.1 will be provided as a free download to all registered
Version 4.0 users. The updater will be posted on Friday, August 8th, 2003
here:

http://www.motu.com/english/download/index.html (\"http://www.motu.com/english/download/index.html\")

[J. Whaley]

Well that would explain why I haven\'t heard anything. Based on the web site I presumed it was out. That probably explains why so many of my friends here who also are long time DP users are switching to Logic. I guess it\'s just the Logical jump!

[peter269]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
I guess it\'s just the Logical jump! <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">GROOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

[Up Late]

I have heard from a very good source that DP 4.1 DAE support will be expanded in the near future. They just wanted to get it up and running and out the door as quickly as possible for the users who have been waitin for it. Whether that expansion includes Audiounits over DAE, I don\'t know. Plug-in automation and punch-on-the fly are probably in. If Digidesign would support Audiounits then this wouldn\'t be an issue at all. I do think that a public letter of intent from MOTU would go a long way in preventing some from jumping ship to Logic. I bought Logic 6.1, but, well I guess I\'m just a dyed-in-the wool DP\'r.

[ed hamilton]

Mach 5 shipped today. My copy is on the way.
Ironic that I will now be running it in Logic images/icons/shocked.gif

[ed hamilton]

Up Late,
I more than agree with you on a Letter of intent from motu.

On DP\'s PTHD support though, How long has HD been out?? almost a year!?
\"they just wanted to get it out the door\"?!?
jeez.

DIgi is just like Apple. They do what they do and every other company that makes products on those platforms simply has to deal with it.

Logic made the tdm esb bridge many moons ago. Motu would rather blame digi.

Will digi support audio units?
Personally I don\'t care. Motu should just deal with it and work around like Logic did.
If they built a bridge I might come back.

If they don\'t get super serious Motu may be reduced to an interface company that USED to make software.

I own 4 seperate DP licenses. I will not be upgrading any of them to version 4.
I may buy a used 828 on ebay though.

[Up Late]

Ed,
I\'m in agreement with you 100%. I\'ll give it another 3-4 months, maybe 6 with DP. Then (and I don\'t think I ever like Logic) I\'ll switch because we all have work to do.

[Lazul]

Originally posted by Up Late:
Nick,
Yes -- I was referring to PT for OSX. To me at least, the January\'s PT NAMM demo version was slow, and the current version doesn\'t seem too much faster. But this is my impression and, of course, I don\'t use it every day (I use DP as a front-end) so I would defer to those who do. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well OS X is just damn slow.

[esteso]

I\'ve been using DP a long time and have come REALLY close to switching to Logic. And I still might, but learning a new sequencer is not top on my list of things to do right now. I could learn Logic pretty easily I\'m sure, but the thing is, I can run DP with my eyes closed and almost never touch a mouse. So I think that\'s going to make up for how slow DP is for at least the next couple of years. (I mean in comparison to how slow I\'d be in Logic)

The other thing is, Motu is showing signs of life with their new VI track and freeze function(yes, it\'s not as cool as Logic, but they\'re slow learners, they\'ll get it right eventually)

Plus Mach 5 will integrate seamlessly no doubt. Why do I have such high hopes? Because of the UVI people (who gave us the Spectrasonics engine)

I just wish they would go back and write the code from the bottom up. It seems to me that the program didn\'t get any more stylin\' with the release of DP4. A few bells and whistles but still the same old \"go get a cup of coffee\" interface. Oh well, everything is slow in OSX for a moment. I have it good authority that there\'s a wee problem with the core audio driver. Good things come to those who wait.

BTW, I also subscribe to the \"buy Logic just \'cause Apple bought it\" theory. Which software do you think will run the best on the next generation of Apples?

[ed hamilton]

Up Late,

Before I bought logic i talked to Dave Smith at logic tech support.
He gave me the best advice.
\"Don\'t learn Logic, make it work the way YOU want it too\".

Minute one I changed all the key commands. So from the start it worked the way I wanted it to.
The environment thing took a minute but its really a big Free Midi that also does audio.
Keep in mind I had to get Logic, the tdm bridge, the esb bridge, the HD extension, EXS and the vintage keys plugs all working at the same time.

The manuals suck.
But I figured it out mostly intuitively.

I am still rooting for motu though. I can\'t express how pissed I am at them for dropping the ball. I had better things to do than Learn a new sequencer at this point.

[Up Late]

Ed,
See -- your whole post is exactly what MOTU has to WAKE UP about! Hopefully they are aware that there are a number people who have switched or a thinking about it. Partially aware they may be, and I think that may be the reason they are expanding DAE support later. They need to go all the way with DAE support (there are actually quite a few DP/DAE users), and SPEED UP THE PROGRAM!!! Logic flys compared to DP. ProTools software is dog slow too.

[Up Late]

Ed,
So you will use MachFive in Logic -- ironically, it may be MachFive that keeps MOTU afloat.

[Nick Batzdorf]

ProTools software is dog slow too. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">In OS 9? How so?

(I just got v.6, the OS X version, so maybe that\'s what you\'re talking about?)

[Up Late]

Nick,
Yes -- I was referring to PT for OSX. To me at least, the January\'s PT NAMM demo version was slow, and the current version doesn\'t seem too much faster. But this is my impression and, of course, I don\'t use it every day (I use DP as a front-end) so I would defer to those who do.