Who Is Developing for Mach 5? [Archive]

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tomhartman

08-20-2003, 06:51 PM

While the included sample conversion utility does a pretty darn good job of converting, I\'m wondering if any of you developers out there, big or small, will be doing your libraries in M5 format. On the Mac, I think this will be THE sampler of choice, unless you\'re using Logic. For Pro Tools and DP users (and maybe EVEN a few Logic users) M5 is wonderful. Direct from disk is not implemented yet but will be, making this a really terrific and easy to use option.

Converting is always a drag, so a library MADE for M5 would be great.

Thanks for any input!

J. Whaley

08-21-2003, 12:08 PM

Can\'t M5 run VST? They could run together couldn\'t they?

ed hamilton

08-21-2003, 12:12 PM

M5 works fine in Logic. Its takes an extra step to manually assign M5s midi channel to the same midi channel as the intrument channel on which you instanciate it.
But its no big deal. Just not as seemless as all the other soft samplers.

Perhaps Tom just meant that EXS already has a stronghold on the logic market.

The fact the M5 lets you load multiple presets and layer them, edit them, effect them all in the same instance is pretty cool.
MULTI\'s!!!! yeah baby!

Nick Batzdorf

08-21-2003, 12:18 PM

I think this will be THE sampler of choice, unless you\'re using Logic My take: clearly it will be THE sampler of choice if you\'re using Digital Performer; I think it will be A sampler of choice even if you are using Logic; and it appears to be ONE OF the samplers of choice for Pro Tools, along with Kontakt/Kompakt and anything else that supports RTAS or ReWire.

But ultimately the samplers of choice will depend on the developers, because it\'s the libraries that are going to sell the samplers. And I\'m not trying to piss off Bruce by saying that, because features are a good feature too!

ed hamilton

08-21-2003, 12:20 PM

double post images/icons/mad.gif

tomhartman

08-21-2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I think this will be THE sampler of choice, unless you\'re using Logic My take: clearly it will be THE sampler of choice if you\'re using Digital Performer; I think it will be A sampler of choice even if you are using Logic; and it appears to be ONE OF the samplers of choice for Pro Tools, along with Kontakt/Kompakt and anything else that supports RTAS or ReWire.

But ultimately the samplers of choice will depend on the developers, because its the libraries that are going to sell the samplers. And I\'m not trying to piss off Bruce by saying that, because features are a good feature too! <hr /></blockquote>Kontakt, on the Mac, looks like a bad PC port. Like they do when they have a hit PC videogame and then say \"Now Available for Mac!.\" M5 is a lot more in the Mac tradition and my feeling is more Mac users will choose it, while PC guys may prefer it. JMHO. I own both.

Nick Batzdorf

08-21-2003, 03:07 PM

Kontakt\'s window is the same on both platforms, so I\'m afraid I don\'t quite understand that.

Or are you talking about the old \"adheres to the Apple guidelines\" thing that used to be one of the bars in the summary charts at the top of reviews in Mac magazines? If so, I think that\'s gone the way of the Mac Plus!

tomhartman

08-21-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
Kontakt\'s window is the same on both platforms, so I\'m afraid I don\'t quite understand that.

Or are you talking about the old \"adheres to the Apple guidelines\" thing that used to be one of the bars in the summary charts at the top of reviews in Mac magazines? If so, I think that\'s gone the way of the Mac Plus! I guess it\'s one of those \"If you have to ask, you\'ll never know things.\" images/icons/wink.gif

How about that green screen? What\'s that from, The Andromeda Strain? images/icons/wink.gif

Yeah, very un-Mac like. Most Mac programs do adhere to common operational modes of course, or it would be chaos. I would assume PC programs do to, but don\'t know since I don\'t use one.

Tech Support at NI agreed that they had a lot of complaints about it\'s looks/interface on the Mac. But hey, if you like it great. I found it extremely hard to read and several aspects of it\'s operation were most unusual on the Mac.

That said, Dougs work with the interface looks very cool, so maybe some of that wil eventually trickle down (up?) to Kontakt....

Nick Batzdorf

08-21-2003, 07:45 PM

Well, are Logic, Reason, Digital Performer, EXS24, Access Virus TDM...Internet Explorer, Microsoft Word, blablabla Mac-like? They all have widely different interfaces.

Anyway, I didn\'t mean to voice an opinion either way about Kontakt\'s screen (I don\'t really have one). My question is how it looks like a bad PC port when it has the same interface on both platforms.

One thing\'s for sure: the green window isn\'t going to affect anyone\'s buying decision.

Nick Batzdorf

08-21-2003, 07:47 PM

And I almost forgot to add OS X to that list! It\'s not very Mac-like!

Scott Cairns

08-21-2003, 07:56 PM

Most Mac programs do adhere to common operational modes of course, or it would be chaos. I would assume PC programs do to, but don\'t know since I don\'t use one.
I\'ve used both platforms for years and they certainly do follow certain application design principles; CTRL(or Apply key)

+ C (copy)
+ V (paste)
+ Z (undo)

etc, etc.

King and I were actually having a rant about the lack of simple application shortcut keys for Kontakt.

For example, I once made a mistake and immediately went CTRL+Z (undo) - you cant undo a simple mistake!

ed hamilton

08-21-2003, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
And I almost forgot to add OS X to that list! It\'s not very Mac-like! Thats why i am still running 9.2 !!!!!
agreed on osx

tomhartman

08-21-2003, 09:24 PM

\" Well, are Logic, Reason, Digital Performer, EXS24, Access Virus TDM...Internet Explorer, Microsoft Word, blablabla Mac-like? They all have widely different interfaces.\"

Actually, yes, they are. They all behave as you would expect them to,despite the difference in their looks. They have common commands that behave in an age old fashiion.

\"Anyway, I didn\'t mean to voice an opinion either way about Kontakt\'s screen (I don\'t really have one). My question is how it looks like a bad PC port when it has the same interface on both platforms.\"

I don\'t mean this as any kind of insult to PC users, so please save the flames. But I think Mac users have been brought up on interfaces and program designs that have been far more elegant than those on the PC for many years. That\'s not true nowadays...but Kontakt seems to harken back to another time. In the Eighties I was using Performer and my friend was sequencing on a PC with Sequencer Plus....it was all command lines and green on black screens.... images/icons/wink.gif He couldn\'t believe I was putting things in folders and using drop down menus, etc. The Mac just was way ahead visually. I think that\'s created a tradition of Mac users expecting programs to have an elegant and clean user interface. I don\'t think KONTAKTs choice of fonts and colors allow it to be considered on a par with typical well designed Mac programs. And also of course, the non-Mac like aspects of the program (someone else mentioned a few here...like key commands.....there are others). All in all Kontakt is great, I\'m not really as against it as I may be coming off. I love the Time Machine and many other aspects of the program.

\"One thing\'s for sure: the green window isn\'t going to affect anyone\'s buying decision.\"

Well, my hunch is that when a typical Mac user opens KONTAKT and then open Mach5, there will be a preference for M5, all other things being equal. Of course, a Mac user using OSX can\'t do that right now, because Kontakt is still not OSX ready (OK, sorry for the low blow).

Hey, I\'m just glad we have choices....somehow, everyone can be happy!

tomhartman

08-21-2003, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
And I almost forgot to add OS X to that list! It\'s not very Mac-like! Hey watch out, I love OSX;)

The fact that I haven\'t had to relearn any programs means that the inherent Mac traditions are all still there...

tomhartman

08-21-2003, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by ed hamilton:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
And I almost forgot to add OS X to that list! It\'s not very Mac-like! Thats why i am still running 9.2 !!!!!
agreed on osx <hr /></blockquote>Hey Ed, give it another chance. I had to reboot in OS9 the other day and I felt like I was on a Mac plus;) After about two weeks I\'ll bet you\'ll find you really like it. I booted from 9 at first, and at night, I would boot in OSX and just tool around a bit, poking here and there.....it looked kind of daunting. Then I updated to PT6 and then just started using it everyday. I love it now.

It\'s really quite friendly and at least with Pro Tools has been way more stable for me than any previous system.

Scott Cairns

08-21-2003, 10:14 PM

And I almost forgot to add OS X to that list! It\'s not very Mac-like! Well all NT versions of Windows and OS X have had some help from Unix architecture, so they are gradually narrowing the divide between Mac and PC! images/icons/smile.gif

ed hamilton

08-21-2003, 11:50 PM

I agree with Tom that M5 is likely going to be THE format for mac.
It could become very worthwhile for developers to consider porting into the format.

M5\'s abiltiy to read .dat files is potentially huge. If more developers (ERIC!!) start to support M5 opening up their .dat files, M5 would become the go to piece.

Just picture being able to layer your samples with atmosphere presets all in one instance, with easy editing and tweeking with effects!! And to be able to save it for instant recall.

Jamie Haggerty

08-21-2003, 11:54 PM

I think this will be THE sampler of choice, unless you\'re using Logic 

Why do you say this about Logic? Is there a problem with the 2 running together?
J

Nick Batzdorf

08-22-2003, 12:39 PM

I don\'t mean this as any kind of insult to PC users, so please save the flames. I\'m certainly not flaming you, if that\'s how it sounds! And to be clear, I\'ve been working on Macs every day for the past 17 or 18 years.

But I think Mac users have been brought up on interfaces and program designs that have been far more elegant than those on the PC for many years. That\'s not true nowadays...but Kontakt seems to harken back to another time. I think a lack of cut/copy/paste, etc. would be a more important issue. A lot of plug-ins have funny interfaces, and I think it might be because it\'s hard to intercept key commands that are intended for the host program. Some plug-ins do that, but it still might explain the departure from conventions.

ed hamilton

08-22-2003, 11:56 PM

Tom.
I spent years living on the bleeding edge. Always out front with the latest versions, macs, PT, etc.

2 years ago I decided to let myself fall behind the curve. Upgrade burnout.

But now that waves, DP, PT, Logic, are all working on OSX its probably time to finally make the move.

I am rested now. I think its time to be a digi beta tester again when I get a G5 dual 2 gig.
Probably won\'t get any work done for a couple weeks but I will have good tips for DUC members!

But to put this thread back on track........
I am still pissed at \"magic dave\" for his less then stellar tech support but M5 is a really cool app. With streaming I think developers will be able to do things in it that would be difficult or impossible with other soft samplers.
Any native programming would be excellent.