New orchestral demo

[Didou]

Hello everybody,
This is the first Giga demo I present. In this piece, are using GOS, Sam\'s horn, Sam\'s bones, and Sam\'s free trumpets ( thank you sam...) , LOP, Kirk hunter\'s flutes and MV for the other woods.
Here\'s the link :
http://clardid.ledan.free.fr/RAMKY.mp3 (\"http://clardid.ledan.free.fr/RAMKY.mp3\")
Did.

[MrArkadine]

Hi Did,

Wow, that sounds really good. Very elaborate and complex (in a good way). Nice orchestration and harmonies.
I think you did great with the libraries that you have. Love SAM\'s brass and the percussion. Strings are a little synthy for my taste. Maybe a little bit more dynamic range.Don\'t take this as criticisms really, just nitpicking. Very cool.

Take care,

Ruben

[falcon1]

I get \"The page cannot be displayed\" error.

Something wrong with the link?

[D.DiAnda]

The link works fine for me.
Great job, that sounds really good.

[Jamie Haggerty]

This is a very impressive piece. Well done.
J

[MadJoe]

Excellent, great job and very impressive mix.
This piece sounds very realistic.

Thank you

[D.Montesinos]

BRAVO One of the Better demos ever posted..

[Frederick]

REVIEW

Composition

Nice textures, complex harmonies and intricate attention to orchestral detail. From a pure compositional standpoint, excellent job images/icons/smile.gif

Mixing

Mixing and engineering a piece for production where it sounds so close to an orchestral performance is an art in itself. Rather than go into the specifics, allow me to reprint a section of an interview of Jeremy Soule (composer for LucasArts Knights of the Old Republic) by Gary Garritan - on mixing and recording techniques.



· Could you walk through the typical process you go through when laying strings down. Not so much the compositional process, but the technical process of getting the \'sound\' you get from GOS. Things like layering (any other string libraries used?), expression control (CC11), EQ\'ing, reverbs, compression, limiting, etc.Thanks for your time.” Submitted by jubal


[Jeremy Soule]
Well, I\'ve got a fairly conventional template I use that is in score order. For those that don\'t know what this is (bear with me all of you PhDs), it is merely the order of the instruments as they would appear on a conductor\'s chart. There are no other strings being used at Artistry Entertainment now. Everything you hear is GOS. I\'ve got the strings split out on a D8B right now across \"violins\", \"viola\", \"celli\" and \"basses\" so it is a pretty simple setup. My strings tend to be heavier in verb than what you hear in real life. This is a stylistic thing that I do and it helps blend the different types of attacks. I use a Lexicon 300 pretty extensively along with a 960L in some cases. I also have darkened down the violins with a gentle British EQ roll-off. Something like 3.9 db starting in the mid ranges extending upwards. GOS tends to be bright so I took this into account in matching the sound of my ideal synth orchestra with the sound of a live orchestra. I also sometimes add a soft knee compressor to the basses and celli. This helps to focus the sound a bit. Panning is also a piece of cake. My firsts are gently nudged a bit more left than they come out of the box. I also nudge my celli to the right and brightened the celli on a lot of my mixes. Last but not least, I use lots and lots of expression control. Volume, foot, breath, mod...you name it. It\'s all there. You need all of these things to keep the tone articulation and phrasing musical. I use my lungs, hands and feet simultaneously. It\'s seems a bit like smoking and riding a motorcycle at the same time--it looks cool but it\'s easy to crash.


· 1) When you make orchestral mockups, with which instruments or groups to you typically start? Do you have a general piano track for jotting down musical ideas (sketch track)? 2) Do you have system or a set of \"principles\" for getting individual instruments within a proper level range? There are so many variables, like velocity, expression, volume that affect the final loudness of an instrument (samples) in the mix. 3) Do you compare levels and settings like eq, reverb with \"real recordings? Or has this become an internalized reference? Thanks in advance”, Submitted by PeterRoos in The Netherlands

[Jeremy Soule]
Thanks Peter, I\'m always comparing my synth setup to a real orchestra. In fact, when I write, I try to imagine the monitors as merely windows into an orchestra hall rather than speakers connected to an amp. I always try to think about what the instruments should sound like at various levels. It\'s far too easy to play samples out of perspective. I think it is important to watch perspective just as much as the notes and rhythms.


· How did you get such nice depth and sound placement in your GOS demos? Did you use plugins like Soundstage or Acoustic Mirror and place the instruments accordingly? Did you use different reverb techniques for strings, brass, woods? Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks”, Submitted by Damon


[Jeremy Soule]
I\'ve used acoustic mirror--it\'s cool, but it doesn\'t beat the real thing. But for electronic reverb, it\'s hard to beat Lexicon.


· Jeremy, thanks for taking the time here. 1. Would you discuss the whole issue of ambience with some detail. I feel you have mastered it, you have captured the air in a very tasteful and professional manner. “ Submitted by gungnir


[Jeremy Soule]
Thank you! A few reviewers have said I use too much reverb... I do have a reason for going heavier in the verb and that is to cover the seams generally produced by Gigastudio and low-resolution midi that we\'ve all been stuck with for far too long (I HOPE the MMA reads this). Gigastudio could be powered with a firewire cable connected to Mac or PC running some sequencer if a few people would get together and talk. We don\'t need to modify entire assembly lines at Roland, Yamaha and whatever else to adopt a new standard now. It\'s just a little software and off-the-shelf hardware as far as Gigastudio is concerned. This resolution would make it possible for me to use less ambience as I\'d have greater control over the instruments.


Some live classical mixes I\'ve heard have an astounding amount of verb on them. I believe that for the most part, the room is like another instrument. My percussion is often sampled as far back as 40 feet from the source. There\'s simply no other way to get this sound. I can\'t tell you how many tympani samples I\'ve heard that sound like the mic is being used as the mallet!


· Thanks for taking the time to answer some of our questions. I see that others have asked all but one of my questions, so here is mine: It begins with the fact that it sounds like your reverb returns for each individual track are in mono. Are they? Thanks”, Submitted by Rick


[Jeremy Soule]
My sends and returns have been in panned mono setups as I have been playing around with this for a while. It allows me to punch up verb on the opposite channel of the instrument which also happens in real life. A lot of the problem I have with artificial verb is that the amplitude characteristics of an orchestra in a room are completely glossed over. If my trumpet is on the right, I want the sound of the wall on the left to really show itself. It\'s hard to get this effect without manually manipulating it. I\'m still toying with this technique.
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[Didou]

Hi all,

Thank you very much for all those congratulations ! images/icons/smile.gif
Frederick, I\'ve transmited the quote to my sound engineer. He was very interested by this interview .
thank you.
Did.

[MadJoe]

Very interesting interview Frederick.

[Gary M. Thomas]

Hello Didou.... Very nice composition!!! You\'re sounding great! Keep up the good work!!! images/icons/wink.gif Gary

[Leon Willett]

Fantastic!!! Well done did.

[gungnir]

Did:

This piece, as a composition, is excellent, probably the best I’ve heard to date on the forum. Why? Because you have, in my opinion, provided more true musical narrative, a syntactical template upon which the listener can easily respond emotionally in a manner that unfolds, like a story. Like good prose, it activates “the theatre of the mind”, and is very refreshing as such because it is stimulating in an exciting modern way, yet refers to classical structure enough to be essentially free from the dreaded cliches that most people fall victim to.

Sometime ago I was working on a piece somewhat similar in flavor, attempting to depict a fleet of Viking ships leaving a fiord, but I believe I will leave it unfinished as you have so eloquently created the mood here.

That oboe (e. horn?)is beautiful at the beginning, I presume it is Vitous, who in my opinion created an expressive standard that has yet to be matched.

Continue on Did, this is big, wide screen panoramic adventure music, the best this forum has yet to experience and on a whole other level in regards to compositional complexity and structure. Well done indeed.

Cheers,
Gungnir

[PAT]

Hi Didou

Good job guys, very impressive. This so an incredible sound! Didou your piece comes directly from heaven,very inspired. Gugnir is right, I felt like i was in front of a screen. Didou must be the spiritual son of James Horner and Saint saens. Anyway, the mix is great as well, probably the best i heard from years. Sorry for the others, it seems such a hard task to do as good as this piece.

Pat

[Isabella Rowlins]

Mr. Didou,

Wonderful movements. Fluent. Atmospheric. Depth with meaning. A lovely dark, wooden and \"warm \"feeling to it all. Clouds. September. Autumn.

Isabella Rowlins

[Didou]

Gary, Leon, Gungnir, Pat, Isabella, I\'m really sensitive to such greetings ! It\'s very justifying.
Gungnir, you\'re right, I\'m using the english horn a t the beginnig from Miroslav Vitous. It\'s very expressive, but I regret not to have a more progressive attack (no controller on those patch).
I\'d like to add that the colour obtained in this piece is due as well to the sound engineer with wich I\'m working. Everybody here knows the importance of a good mix in the work with samples.
Did.

[gungnir]

OK, Hudson, you have now seemingly migrated, with the fervor of the common cold, to pollute this thread as well, and therefore the situation demands definitive action.

I find your comments in general sexist, snide, retaliatory and definitely not politically correct. In other words, I enjoy them thoroughly. However, I believe there is a risk that you will become infectious as you continue to branch out and pollute other threads with your endless rhetorical assaults, and therefore several forum members and myself have decided to hire the Jessie James of the written word, Z6, to do verbal battle with you right here, in full view of us all, unless you remain within a confined (quarantined) virtual space from this point on.

Such an imposing threat will, no doubt, be enough to stifle any further outbursts on your part, and allow this forum to return once again to the placid, monotonous place we have all come to expect and cherish.

Gungnir

[Hudson]

Didou, I would have liked your piece a lot more if you had breasts, but all things considered nicely done.
-Hudson

[MadJoe]

Hello Did,

Just a question for the sound engineer: which reverb is used in the mix ?

MJ

[Didou]

Hi MJ,

The reverb that he\'s using is the Altiverb.
Did.

[Rob Elliott]

Very very nice Didou! Compositional quite sound and moving. The strings are showing their age a tad, but not overwhelmingly distracting.

This piece is an inspiration for all us to continue to reach greater heights!

Rob

[ChrisAxia]

Wow! This is really great work!! You deserve a serious career in film scoring.

Good luck for the future.

Chris

[christianb]

Didou le francais,
I had listened to this the first day you posted and must apologize that it took me a while to digest and write in. In short...really great job. You seem to be able to weave in and out of your motifs with such ease. I get hopelessly stuck in the \"4/4, ok what\'s the next bar going to be about?\" mindset, that it\'s a joy to hear something that seems so effortless. Of course, this also makes me extremely jealous as well images/icons/smile.gif While it may not have as powerful a \"Hollywood\" sound that so many are after it is awfully realistic and a great piece. Look forward to hearing more from you.

Tres bien fait!

christianb

[Rudi]

Didou c\'est tres bien!

Le theme principal est trest inventif et le son du genre \"Hollywood\" est pratiquement parfait.

J\'aime beaucoup le melange des cuivres et la facon (pas de cedille sur mon clavier) dont les parties differentes se complemente.

Il y\'a aussi un bon sens de la dynamique. C\'est evocatif et marcherai bien a un film de style de tres grand ecrant.

Bien fait images/icons/wink.gif

Rudi

[Didou]

Hello,

Again I\'m really grateful by such comments !
Hudson, you\'re right, I have no breasts (only big pectoral, I\'m hairy and have a strong deep voice images/icons/wink.gif . Thanks for the comment.
Thanks Rob, nice of you. I discovered your music some weeks ago and really enjoyed it.
Also thanks to Chris and Christianb. You call me \"Didou le français\" : You\'re right and this is the reason why my english can be sometimes so clumsy !
Moreover, I think that Rudi undrestood that I\'m more comfortable with french language ! You complimented the piece, I congratulate you for your very good french !
Didou le Français


images/icons/wink.gif

[P de Caumette]

Hey Didou,

bravo pour ton morceau, c\'est super!

I was wondering if you bothered following a click when you wrote this or if you disregarded the grid altogether?

Bonne chance pour la continuation

[Didou]

Patrick,

Merci pour le compliment ! images/icons/wink.gif

When I\'m recording each voices, I\'m following the click (and then the grid). But for the interpretation, I sometimes have to go more slowly or more quickly. Then I\'m recording without following the click :
If at the beginning of a piece I\'m on a 4/4 bar, the
the bar where I will go more slowly can for example become a 6/4 bar. In this way, it\'s possible, after this \"deceleration\", to start again on a new 4/4 bar, and recording referring to the click.
Did.

[MadJoe]

Thank you for the answer images/icons/smile.gif