OT: Giga vs Kontakt

[Markus S]

Is kontakt really better? I wonder if I should switch... images/icons/confused.gif I\'d be glad to hear any opinion from you,
thanks,
Markus.

[Owel]

Me too... I have GS32 (bought at Mars liquidation sale), and I\'m thinking if I should upgrade to GS96, or just get Kontakt.

People, convince me. Should I stay with GS, or should I go with Kontakt for my next purchase. What are your experiences?

I already have lots of stuff in the hardware department... Mackie mixer, Triton LE, Roland XV-5080, Yamaha DX7, Roland JV-1080, RNC compressor, Lexicon MPX-550 reverb, ART DPS preamp, and Roland SDE-330 delay.

On the software side, Sonar 2.2XL, Gigastudio 32, and Sound Forge 6.0.

I\'ve read that for the same PC setup, running Kontakt will allow you to have multiple instances and therefore, have more \"voices\" and it can run as a DXi within Sonar. That sounds attractive to me.

But on the other hand, libraries are developed for GS and Kontakt\'s implementation of Giga compatibility may not be perfect.

[MusicalCharities]

I really don\'t know about Giga versus kontakt--at least in the future. Giga 3.0 is supposedly in store for the near future. So I am planning on waiting to see before I make the switch.

[guybrush threepwood]

I really wonder if Giga 3 will be as versatile as Kontakt, i mean, if you will be able to use it as dxi, vsti, standalone etc... images/icons/confused.gif

[Rich Pell]

Kontakt 1.3 should be out soon(within a month??).Maybe download the DEMO and test drive the most flexible VST sampler there is. Rich

[Bruce A. Richardson]

What is it with you guys and \"switching?\"

Use BOTH!!!!!

This thing of \"waiting\" to see what is going to happen is nuts. You could be dead by then. Kontakt is a cool sampler. If you want to use it, buy it. It\'s great, and reasonably priced. You\'ll pay for it on the first job.

You will want Giga 3, too...to borrow a phrase from my good pal Ron Kuper, everyone\'s expecting Giga to \"zig,\" and I think people are going to be very surprised at the way they\'ve \"zagged.\" So why this talk about switching? Once you\'ve licensed a software app, it\'s very cheap to stay on the upgrade path. One does not preclude the other.

At the risk of sounding rather Charltonesque, you\'d have to pry either one from my cold dead fingers. They are both excellent tools, with radically different approaches. Neither is \"best.\" You can\'t dial up a distortion matrix in Giga. You can\'t stream 160 voices at 7% CPU in Kontakt. Nothing is \"best.\" If you\'re stuck in that mindset, break free!!

[Owel]

Well, I downloaded the Kontakt PC demo last night. Played with it as a stand alone and as a DX plugin in Sonar. WOW!

I like that I can have 5 or 10 instruments all playing at once in 1 instance, and have another instance playing a different set of instruments... and everything accessible within Sonar\'s interface. So far, it seemed to have imported the Giga files without any problems.

COMMENT: Is it just me, or are the text in Kontakt is too small? I tried the largest screen setting and they\'re still too small. Is it the software or I\'m getting old?

[Markus S]

@Rich Pell
Oh ok, you\'re right, could have thought about it on my own... images/icons/wink.gif Very good idea the demo, I\'ll try it!

@Bruce,
hehe, exellent post, as usual images/icons/wink.gif !

[Rich Pell]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Owel:
Well, I downloaded the Kontakt PC demo last night. Played with it as a stand alone and as a DX plugin in Sonar. WOW!

I like that I can have 5 or 10 instruments all playing at once in 1 instance, and have another instance playing a different set of instruments... and everything accessible within Sonar\'s interface. So far, it seemed to have imported the Giga files without any problems.

COMMENT: Is it just me, or are the text in Kontakt is too small? I tried the largest screen setting and they\'re still too small. Is it the software or I\'m getting old? [/QUOTE}]

Owel..yes.The text is too small.One of those annoying grafical overlooks.Actually its a NI thing .On all there GUI the text is too small.Hopefully they`ll one day remedy this..Peace Rich

[Haydn]

I\'ve been testing this really cool new library in Kontakt for the past few months using Sonar 2.2 as my sequencer. I really like being able to load the instances of Kontakt and the samples when I load in the piece I\'m working on. I\'ve been loading the piece with 8 instances of Kontakt with almost 1 GB of samples in 30 seconds. That\'s 128 MIDI channels and 200 stereo voices on a P4 2.4 GHz machine. This is about maxed out on that machine. Talk about getting to work fast. The Giga machine has basically been sitting doing nothing although I started using Kontakt on that one lately.

There is a couple bugs in Kontakt 1.2.1 that I have run into. First is that there are tempo change issues with the DXi version. I\'ve been running the VST version lately as it has very few problems and the same performance as the DXi. The 2nd problem has to do with General Options being applied to all instances.

[David Govett]

Well said Bruce! Thank you!
Dave

[Ken-P]

O.K. I completely moved to Kontakt from Giga.
I use VSL and its performance tool in Kontakt. Even legato patch of performance set is working nicely.

Kontakt is very easy to use and edit. In addition, I can use FX teleport....

I am very happy with it.

[handz]

I think until the conversion of GIGA will be absolutely correct it is nonsense to use Kontak whit orchestral libraries - expression doesn´t work and KS MW and stuff works only sometimes...

[Scott Cairns]

I use both. Kontakt is worth the buying price for the samples alone.

Some great guitar, percussion, and other stuff.

Kontakt is also great if you are into \"sound mangling.\"

I really like Giga for its \"workhorse\" nature and just how much it will handle without barfing. images/icons/wink.gif

[falcon1]

handz, that\'s just an bs! Expression does work! However, sometimes you need to associate external midi controls to the patch - It\'s very easy to do!

Just post your questions in the Native forum (here on Northernsounds) and I shall try to answer them.

Scott, very true - Kontakt is also much easier/quicker to learn.

[ProfessorOak]

I\'ll second the Kontakt praises. I absolutely love it. The price is right, the performance is awesome- and the speed is BLAZING. I love how quick it loads samples.

Also, for those on a budget theres Kompakt. You can load all the samples you want into kompakt, and its half the price of gigastudio 96! Aside from the in depth editing, it performs just like Kontakt.

[Markus S]

\"depth editing\"?

[Mark_Knecht]

I know I should go read the manual, but can I run Kontakt as a stand alone app as apposed to a VST/VSTi? Does it run well this way?

I\'m on Pro Tools and would like to use Kontakt one of these days the same way I\'m using GSt.

Thanks,
Mark

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Markus S:
\"depth editing\"? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think he means u can`t edit your samples in Kompakt as indepth as in Kontakt..Rich

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Mark_Knecht:
I know I should go read the manual, but can I run Kontakt as a stand alone app as apposed to a VST/VSTi? Does it run well this way?

I\'m on Pro Tools and would like to use Kontakt one of these days the same way I\'m using GSt.

Thanks,
Mark <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Mark,Kontakt works really well as a standalone. Actually alot of guys are running it Live from there laptops.There`s a good post about on the NI forum on how u can do \"patch changes \" Live with it.Sort of fake patch changes...Rich

[Mark_Knecht]

Thanks Rich. I\'ll check it out. I don\'t know whether I want to invest in a second sample player right now, or go to work with a couple of different soft synths like Reaktor. decisions, decisions.... ;-))

Cheers,
Mark

[Rich Pell]

Hey Mark..I actually just bought Reaktor yesterday.and i think i finally understand the hype.Its amazing to say the least.truely endless possabilities and the sounds are of very high quality.Yet another excuse to handcuff myself to my computer...Rich

[Mark_Knecht]

Originally posted by Rich Pell:
Hey Mark..I actually just bought Reaktor yesterday.and i think i finally understand the hype.Its amazing to say the least.truely endless possabilities and the sounds are of very high quality.Yet another excuse to handcuff myself to my computer...Rich <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Rich,
Maybe it\'s getting too off topic for this thread or this forum even, but could you tell me what sort of machien you are running it on? I looked at Reaktor Session yesterday since I don\'t want to program. I\'m doing that with Open Source Linux soft synths. I jsut wanted a Reaktor compatable synth that I could use with preprogrammed patches from their library.

When I looked at the box they said an 800MHz Athlon was the minimum, and I want to run it on a 500MHz P3 + 768MB + 150GB disk. Think it will work? It\'s the same machine I run GSt on, but I won\'t be running GSt and Reaktor Session at the same time. Sound cards are a Hammerfall Light and an AP2496 that is currently doing MIDI only.

Unfortunately, NI does not have a Reaktor Session download for me to try out. Only the full Reaktor which I didn\'t want to mess with.

Thanks,
Mark

[Rich Pell]

Hmm.. yea that may be a bit to low..Reaktors pretty CPU hungry,especially if u were to make big macros and ensembles but u might be able to get away with it..I`m running P4 2.4 ,1 gb ram,and it whistles.Its an extreemly fun program.Very deep.A world unto its own..he he..Rich Can u upgrade your CPU?

[Mark_Knecht]

Originally posted by Rich Pell:
Hmm.. yea that may be a bit to low..Reaktors pretty CPU hungry,especially if u were to make big macros and ensembles but u might be able to get away with it..I`m running P4 2.4 ,1 gb ram,and it whistles.Its an extreemly fun program.Very deep.A world unto its own..he he..Rich Can u upgrade your CPU? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thanks for the info. Not sure I can update the processor. I looked at Dell\'s site and didn\'t find one. It\'s one of those old, upright Pentium 3\'s. The machine has been great for GSt, but I\'m frustrated by the amount of fan noise it makes. These days I sort of only use GSt for certain things and the machine is turned off most of the time. (I don\'t do anything orchestral like many of the folks here. More pop/rock/prog-rock stuff) I expect that I\'d end up using Reaktor Session (not Reaktor) much more and have to have the machine turned on much more, and thus the noise.

Probably I\'d be better off to build a 4th machine and maybe just move the AP2496 there as a sound card. I think I\'ll go ahead and get Reaktor Session and then deal with the 4th machine issue if I need to.

Currently:

Machine 1: Athlon 1600 running Pro Tools
Machine 2: Athlon XP 2600+ running many Linux audio things
Machine 3: P3 500 running GSt

Does anyone else here use Linux? I\'m big into Alsa/Jack these days. Have there been any Linux threads here? I\'m doing lots of stuff these days.

Since you\'re into Reaktor, you might be a bit interested in these open source tools, even if you don\'t want to use them right now:

http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/ams/ (\"http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/ams/\")
http://www.pawfal.org/Software/SSM/ (\"http://www.pawfal.org/Software/SSM/\")
http://rezound.sourceforge.net/ (\"http://rezound.sourceforge.net/\")
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ (\"http://audacity.sourceforge.net/\")

Audacity runs under Windows and is Open Source and free. Check it out if you are a Sound Forge user.

Thanks for your inputs Rich. Very helpful.

Cheers,
Mark

[killerbobjr]

Originally posted by Mark_Knecht:
Not sure I can update the processor. I looked at Dell\'s site and didn\'t find one. It\'s one of those old, upright Pentium 3\'s.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Powerleap processors: http://www.powerleap.com/Products/iP3T.htm (\"http://www.powerleap.com/Products/iP3T.htm\")

[Alan Russell]

Haydn,

maybe you can assist here..

I\'ve got my Motif 8 Keyboard..It has a Midi IN, OUT and Thru. It also has an optical connector (In and out). I have two computers ready to go.

Computer #1 is a 3.2ghz PIV with 2 Gigs DDR-400 (PC3200). It has the Echo Layla24 as its sound card. The Echo Layla has a Midi In, Out and Thru. It also has optical connectors as well as 2 Spdif connectors. The software installed is Sonar XL 2.2 (soon to be Sonar 3.0 Producer)
The EWQLSO is the library (Strings) and is installed on this computer.

Computer #2 is a 1.3GHZ PIV 768 RDRAM (800mhz)
It has a Frontier Wave/Center card installed. It has 2 Midi ins and 2 Midi outs as well as a Spdif in and out connector. Gigastudio 160 is installed on this computer having associated libraries on a separate hard drive.

Finally the Questions:

I need to have Sonar XL 2.2 to sequence any library at any time from either computer.
Can this be done? If so can you tell me the hook up and what I need (Cables) If I need a Midi Patch Bay - please inform me exactly which one I need to purchase.

Thanks to anybody who can assist..

Alan Russell

[Rich Pell]

Cant u connect everything through your Spdif,or if u changed cards on your 2nd machine to have optical as well your latency would be really good?Thats what Im doing,Optical in and out with SL and V-stack.Or,bypass ur SC and just use FXteleport with V-stack(for QLSO etc.).U just have to network your comps.. Rich

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Originally posted by Alan Russell:
Haydn,

maybe you can assist here..

I\'ve got my Motif 8 Keyboard..It has a Midi IN, OUT and Thru. It also has an optical connector (In and out). I have two computers ready to go.

Computer #1 is a 3.2ghz PIV with 2 Gigs DDR-400 (PC3200). It has the Echo Layla24 as its sound card. The Echo Layla has a Midi In, Out and Thru. It also has optical connectors as well as 2 Spdif connectors. The software installed is Sonar XL 2.2 (soon to be Sonar 3.0 Producer)
The EWQLSO is the library (Strings) and is installed on this computer.

Computer #2 is a 1.3GHZ PIV 768 RDRAM (800mhz)
It has a Frontier Wave/Center card installed. It has 2 Midi ins and 2 Midi outs as well as a Spdif in and out connector. Gigastudio 160 is installed on this computer having associated libraries on a separate hard drive.

Finally the Questions:

I need to have Sonar XL 2.2 to sequence any library at any time from either computer.
Can this be done? If so can you tell me the hook up and what I need (Cables) If I need a Midi Patch Bay - please inform me exactly which one I need to purchase.

Thanks to anybody who can assist..

Alan Russell <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">1) Be sure to word clock the two cards together. Make the non-sequencer machine the slave. You will always need to check and reset the slave relationship if the machines are separately powered down, since the \"slave\" will most likely reset its clock to \"internal\" in the absence of a clock signal.

You may need to use SPDIF as a wordclock source on the Frontier (I don\'t know if it has separate wordclock i/o, so you don\'t have to \"waste\" an audio i/o for sync).

2) MIDI over LAN

This allows you to send all your MIDI over Ethernet. Very slick.

3) FXTeleport

This would allow you to set up all your rigs to run realtime VST. Very handy.

Those are the hookups I\'d use, obviously in addition to the hardware you\'ve purchased. Another option would be to SPDIF the Giga info back into the DAW box as audio. Personally, I just keep my separate boxed word clocked, and use the render to disk function in Giga, but SPDIF gets the digital signal in just as well.

You will love SONAR 3.0. It\'s their most significant upgrade of all times.

[Hardy Heern]

Alan, I\'m a bit rusty but I don\'t see why you cant treat the PCs as you would sound modules. In which case you\'d take a MIDI lead from the OUT of your Motif into the IN of one computer then another MIDI cable from the OUT of that computer to the IN of the next. The sync should be through the MIDI data. No guarantees but it\'s easy and low risk to try.

Regards

Frank

[Mark_Knecht]

Originally posted by Hardy Heern:
Alan, I\'m a bit rusty but I don\'t see why you cant treat the PCs as you would sound modules. In which case you\'d take a MIDI lead from the OUT of your Motif into the IN of one computer then another MIDI cable from the OUT of that computer to the IN of the next. The sync should be through the MIDI data. No guarantees but it\'s easy and low risk to try.

Regards

Frank <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">This strategy will not snyc the audio clocks of the two machines. It only syncs whatever MIDI has control of. Each clock has it\'s own oscillator to generate the 44.1KHz timebase. (Or whatever frequency you are using..)

You need both audio cards to operate at precisely the same frequency or you will get clicks and pops through the audio chain.

Word clock is probably the best method if both of your cards have that cpability. If not, you can sync through ADAT clocks, or possibly through spdif clocks. ADAT can provide a sync and still carry audio. Based on Bruce\'s comment I\'m now unclear whether spdif can, but up until now I had believed it could.

I run 3 PCs in this configuration with a Linux audio router as the Master and then a Pro Tools PC and a GigaStudio PC as the clock slaves. I use Word Clock to sync my Pod Pro. All audio moves digitally. It works well

Good luck,
Mark

[Hardy Heern]

Mark,

No need to make me look stoopid just because I don\'t know what I\'m talking about! images/icons/smile.gif
I was rustier than I thought!

Regards

Frank

[Bruce A. Richardson]

SPDIF can carry clock and audio. My comment about \"wasting\" it was a little confusingly general. I was just referring to tying up the SPDIF with the full time job of keeping the boxes synced. I have several SPDIF devices, so this would be a really difficult method for me. Word Clock i/o is definitely my preferred method, keeping the audio paths as flexible as possible.

Frank, besides the click and pop factor in realtime, you can get in trouble other ways, even offline. Say you\'re running the two machines wild, and you use the GigaStudio Capture function to print a track to disk--but later drag that track into the DAW box (across the network) to mix in that system. Those tracks will drift out of time by the difference in clock speed between the two machines. Over five minutes, or even less, you\'d be amazed at how much out of sync two presumably identical tracks can get. On a big multi-machine Giga system, you can get into seriously deep doodoo. Checking your machine sync is one of those \"grind it into your head\" checklist items, so that in the chaos of production it is one thing you\'re confident about. Rebooting or restarting a machine, especially more than one machine, usually requires a sync-check, since clocks will usually reset themselves to \"internal\" if they can\'t find sync.

[Mark_Knecht]

Originally posted by Hardy Heern:
Mark,

No need to make me look stoopid just because I don\'t know what I\'m talking about! images/icons/smile.gif
I was rustier than I thought!

Regards

Frank <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Frank,
This was absolutely NOT my intention and if I did so, even a little bit, please let me apologize, both immediately and publically.

I work on the hardware side of PC\'s for a living. I\'ve run groups of design engineers doing Ethernet, SCSI, ATA, PC chip sets and for the last few years 1394 designs of multiple natures. I can promise you that many many people, and even the people that work in this area as professionals, do not always get the issues that Bruce and I are commenting on here.

Again, please accept my apologies.

- Mark

[Mark_Knecht]

Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
SPDIF can carry clock and audio. My comment about \"wasting\" it was a little confusingly general. I was just referring to tying up the SPDIF with the full time job of keeping the boxes synced. I have several SPDIF devices, so this would be a really difficult method for me. Word Clock i/o is definitely my preferred method, keeping the audio paths as flexible as possible.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Makes complete sense Bruce. It would be a routing nightmare to do the clocking via spdif only and not be sending audio. Word Clock would be far preferable.

Thanks for the clarification.

cheers,
Mark

[Hardy Heern]

Hey Mark,

You\'re overly kind to apologise, but thanks anyway! I feel that it is I who should apologise as I was only making one of my daft jokes.....that\'s why I was careful to put in a smiley!
Truth is I was pretty much on top of it all (especially the MIDI/ outboard audio side) but I\'ve been out of it for a few years and am relishing becoming reasonably competent again with all the new (for me) technology. That\'s why I visit here....there are so many knowledgeable blokes. What I was ignorant about was the audio card syncing.....something you didn\'t need to know about with modules images/icons/smile.gif .

Best Regards

Frank

[WayneSim]

\"Get Both\" as Bruce stated.

But can you use both at the same time without any problems? ATM all my sample CD\'s are in Giga format only (GOS, Project SAM, etc.). I need to be able to use these libarys in Giga. The reason I ask is I want to buy GPO when it\'s out. And it only comes in Kontakt format (Great to see you get the program with it). But I\'m a little confused as weather you can use both programs at the same time, without any problems. Can you sync the programs?

Please can someone answer my questions.
Cheers,
Wayne

[WayneSim]

^^^^^
My next question is can Kontakt read .gig files??? But then again it\'s hardly worth buying the full version of Kontakt if only for one libary. ummmmm me thinks.... ummmm ????

[Alan Russell]

Wayne,

I\'ve taken every Gig file and easily converted them to Kontakt format..same quality - amazing...

Alan Russell

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Alan Russell:
Wayne,

I\'ve taken every Gig file and easily converted them to Kontakt format..same quality - amazing...

Alan Russell <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Kontakts converts the samples o.k but not the giga Dimension info.Only the KS,no MW stuff.U have to re-program that your self,which isnt too hard.Once u do that ,yu`ll find that u can do alot more stuff to yur samples than u could do in GS.Time machine is amazing. Rich

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by WayneSim:
\"Get Both\" as Bruce stated.

But can you use both at the same time without any problems? ATM all my sample CD\'s are in Giga format only (GOS, Project SAM, etc.). I need to be able to use these libarys in Giga. The reason I ask is I want to buy GPO when it\'s out. And it only comes in Kontakt format (Great to see you get the program with it). But I\'m a little confused as weather you can use both programs at the same time, without any problems. Can you sync the programs?

Please can someone answer my questions.
Cheers,
Wayne <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Depending on your setup .U should be able to run both at the same time.Though Kompakt is VST and GS 2.5 is still ..when u know.As long as u run Kompakt on the same machine as your sequencer,assuming that your running GS on a seperate machine,,Rich images/icons/smile.gif

[Markus S]

Am I right that Kontakt is limited to 16 midi pists? (And Rich, curious to hear your QLSO mock-ups images/icons/smile.gif )

[Alan Russell]

Rich,

when you say Giga Dimension data, are you referring to the keying?

Alan Russell

BTW, I hate keying when it comes to real time playing..

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Markus S:
Am I right that Kontakt is limited to 16 midi pists? (And Rich, curious to hear your QLSO mock-ups images/icons/smile.gif ) <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yes ,8 midi inst. PER INSTANCE of Kontakt.Though 1 inst. could have many GROUPS of inst.Like, 1 patch(or inst) could have an entire perc. section.I often run 4 or 5 instances on my P4 2.4.Yea i gotta get a site up(what a looser i am)..Rich

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Alan Russell:
Rich,

when you say Giga Dimension data, are you referring to the keying?

Alan Russell

BTW, I hate keying when it comes to real time playing.. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">If i think i reading u right,I dont mean the Keyswitching.That translates fine.I mean in a lot of complex Giga samples theres programs with x-fades with the Mod.Wheel.Like VOTA.Sam horns etc.THese dont translate automatically in Kontakt.u have to set it up yourself.Maybe 1.3 will figure this out. Rich

[robgb]

Bruce says get both and he\'s probably right. I think it\'s nice to HAVE both, but in all honesty, I haven\'t touched GigaStudio since I loaded up Kontakt. (Did I say this before, or was that in another thread?)

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Haydn:
Kontakt has 16 instruments per instance, not 8. Each instrument can be set to its own MIDI channel. You can load at least 16 instances of contact for up to 256 MIDI channels! <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What yor saying is true theoretically Haydn,but i find realisticaly i can only get about 9 or 10 inst. in view in the browser rack.I mean when i drag my insts. in only 9 or 10 show.Unless im doing some thing wrong..educate me,Rich

[falcon1]

Rich, just go load/save and then \"new instrument\" and you can have up to 16 instruments.

[Haydn]

You can double click on an instrument and that will add it. Watch for the scroll bar on the right hand side of the instrument rack.

[Rich Pell]

Ahh..I mean Doh..Of course,why didnt i think(poking kniting needles in my eyes)of that.Thanks..Rich

[Haydn]

Kontakt has 16 instruments per instance, not 8. Each instrument can be set to its own MIDI channel. You can load at least 16 instances of contact for up to 256 MIDI channels!