Deep Thoughts About Trumpets

[scores4film]

I really like Dan Dean Brass Ens. and Vienna brass, but when it comes down to it I still don\'t think trumpets have been nailed the way most of the other instruments in the orchestra have. There is a warm reasonance and beauty to trumpets which the samples don\'t quite capture (YET) IMHO. The Miroslav solo trumpet is still very useful, and I think it has a bit of this character I\'m speaking of. My bet is the deep room mics of QLSO get us closer to the sound I\'m looking for.

Colin

[A_Sapp]

Well, I\'m still searching for that special solo trumpet sound as well. Dan Dean\'s solo trumpets are performed beautifully, but are way too closely miced. Also, I haven\'t heard any truly expressive FF solo trumpets, except from one source, which was Thomas\'s earlier works. I heard some pretty amazing trumpet sounds, (and performances of his own) that he used in his works, and I was totally blown away. I think the difference was the really expressive almost VULGAR vibrato that if used in the correct context, was super effective. I can make a recording sometime and show you what I\'m talking about. (Yea, I play some trumpet images/icons/wink.gif )

[esperlad]

Kirk Hunter has a nice solo trumpet in his new brass collection, but there are no mutes.

I would have thought that by now, someone would have sampled a trumpet with a complete set of mutes.

Perhaps Aaron could accomplish this, being that he has mob connections.

[Russ]

Frankly, I\'ve not heard *anyone* capture a trumpet sound effectively. Of course, I\'m baised as trumpet is my instrument and I\'m damn picky about a lot of things as opposed to other instruments.

Miroslav has a good tone, but it\'s effectiveness is limited in a lot of cases -- it\'s extremely easy to tell that it\'s a sample and the articulations are limited with very few volumes. Until VSL was released, I think that it had the best \'emotional\' value of any sample. However, the stereo recording sounds nice and full and has a little ambience of its own that gives it some points, in terms of realism.

From the demos and other friends samples of DD solo and ensembles, the trumpets sound fuzzy (as in the player(s) didn\'t wipe his(their) mouth before playing a note), strained, and with a closed throat tone. The close micing doesn\'t really add a lot of points either IMO and the far mciing doesn\'t sound \'far\' at all. I\'m not that fond of the almost \'mono\' sound of the solo instruments either.

I never liked QLB from the start. Besides the harsh tone, there\'s just something \'wrong\' about the sound of the trumpets in it -- I can\'t say why exactly.

I\'ve not heard that much trumpet work from VSL. The soft demos have a good tone and nice vibrato, but the FF passages do not impress me at all. I think it was Simon\'s demo (\"The Traveler\" I believe is the title -- the one that sounds like a spin off of William\'s work, \"Across the Stars\" being most prominent in my mind) that I was really bothered by the trumpet sounds near the end -- the high ranged \'sound\' was terrible. It sounded like the player was literally struggling on single tonguing, and with a piss port articulation to boot.

Some people praise SAM Trumpets, but I\'m waiting for Marteen to hopefully make a professionally produced library out of them. I downloaded SAMT, played a few notes, and deleted it off of my hard drive (whereas I\'ve kept SAM Timpani, though sometimes the sound gets a little too muddy for my tastes).

Like I said, I\'m damn picky, but I also don\'t like the LSO\'s trumpets. They were solid until about eight years ago, when either the trumpet players decided they didn\'t care or people were replaced. \"La la la, I love to crack notes, la la la\" isn\'t a good attitude for a \'professional\' trumpet player to have -- cracking and spliting almost every note in FF passages (and a lot of mf-f as well) would be grounds for \"Adios!\" to me.

[rendleman]

I am using the Dean Dean solo trumpet on a project and have been having trouble with velocities. For example, on one note I might have a velocity of around 100, and the next note, at a different pitch, might have to have its velocity set to around 20 just to maintain the same general level of volume as the first note. Have others experienced this same problem?

[Jeannot Welter]

Yes.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Originally posted by Russ:
From the demos and other friends samples of DD solo and ensembles, the trumpets sound fuzzy (as in the player(s) didn\'t wipe his(their) mouth before playing a note), strained, and with a closed throat tone.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Russ, that\'s Allen Vizzutti. I think if you actually sat down and programmed with the DD instruments, you\'d have a different opinion of them. Context is everything.

[Russ]

Allen? I don\'t think my opinion would change that much about it (since I seriously do not like Allen\'s sound *at all*). However, if you want to send me a copy of DDBE and DDSB to try to change my mind -- feel free!

j/k

Though, a library built around Wynton Marsalis\'s tone and grace -- perchance but to dream.

[Adrian H]

Originally posted by Russ:
Though, a library built around Wynton Marsalis\'s tone and grace -- perchance but to dream. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Personally, i think Wynton\'s sound is \'fuzzier\' than Allen\'s by a mile, mainly due to that tank, sorry monette trumpet that he plays on. You wouldn\'t use a monette raja trumpet in an orchestra, totally the wrong sound.

Just my tuppence worth,

Adrian

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I\'d stick with orchestral section players, if you ask me...the guys that do it day in and day out. For instance, a peak=of-career Bud Herseth library would rule the universe.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

^$^#%$@#$!#$@

[Nick Batzdorf]

I\'m not quite sure why it is - probably because it\'s such a crazy instrument - but trumpet seems to be the hardest instrument to emulate (and also to record well). My favorite trumpet emulation so far is still on the Yamaha VL1, which I play with an EWI.

Also, a couple of weeks ago I was recording a trombonist for a cue, and after he was finished I had him play the trumpet part while recording at half speed in Pro Tools. It worked pretty well!

[Adrian H]

Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
I\'d stick with orchestral section players, if you ask me...the guys that do it day in and day out. For instance, a peak=of-career Bud Herseth library would rule the universe. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Lets have a few of them, so you can make the ultimate orchestral section! Bud Herseth, Phil Smith, Maurice Murphy - that would be a monster section!

[A_Sapp]

Well, to me right now, the best legato trumpet to date is the VSL C Trumpet. *shiver*

[Mike Auty]

do any of the current trumpet libraries offer control over double and triple tonguing?? I\'d like to see someone do a lib that had auto switching \'tu-kus\' or \'tu-ku-tu\' type things... would make some wicked fanfare type stuff doable...

[KingIdiot]

I think Kirk hunters new brass is supposed to get actual cariations on tonguings in an update

VSL\'s repetition tool is exactly what this is for. You get the different tonguings because its how the player actually plays it, you just pick the place to tstart it and the place to get \"repetitions\". There are also different speeds. So you get aobut 90 variations of the same short note all together, but arranged/labeled by speed/tempo. Kinda cool, but requires a different way of thinking. I dont compose with this, but I\'d go back and use it to make a performance more realistic.

[Alan Russell]

I still think the Motif 8 Romantic Trumpet and Trombone are still very good. I use them as solo instruments along with the Alto Sax (vib) on all of my song and Jazz arrangements.

I am now using Kips, Boresendorfer Imperial Grand (model 290) in my latest song \"Yardbird\" suite..
Kips Piano is untouched..#1 in my book!!!

Give a listen below on my Official Website..

www.AlanrussellMusic.Com (\"http://www.AlanrussellMusic.Com\")

[JonP]

I still really like my old Vitous trumpet/s. They\'ve got a lot of umph and ambience to them although they are not to hot on the amount of articulations they offer.


PS: Hey Adrian H, do you teach at Chets?. I\'m a former Purcell laddie :-)