Recorders, anyone?

[Worra]

Here\'s a first short demo made using some recorder samples that I\'m currently working on.
The piece is written by Stefan Kristinsson.
The full collection will have Sopran, Sopranini, Alt and Tenor flutes.
This demo features the Alt recorder.
Comments, good or bad, are as always welcome, (as long as they are construcive.... images/icons/smile.gif )
Alt Recorder Demo 1 (\"http://www.hastmassoren.com/demos/AltRecorderDemo1.mp3\")

(reverb added, that\'s all)

[Simon Ravn]

Interesting! Havent seen a lot of good recorder samples available, so I am glad you took the plunge Per:) If you ever need to score a Robin Hood movie I guess you need recorders!.. Will check this out later:)

[Danny Lux]

Sounds great!! How many different/sizes are you doing??

[Luigi]

Early Patches also has some nice Recorders and other Medieval and Renaissance instruments.

[thesoundsmith]

Love the sound, Worra, but I have to agree that the reverb sonds hokey (I guess medieval digital reverbs were pretty primitive! images/icons/grin.gif )

I would like a bass recorder - the longest, deepest one you can find-although I will probably buy this anyway...

Also sackbutts, crumhorn, etc. I\'m not impressed with the demos I\'ve heard from the Early Instruments collection.

Dasher

[Worra]

Originally posted by Sharmy:
Hi Worra,

Never run out of ideas of what to sample?

I like it. Are the runs individual runs or are they played....they are good. I\'m not sure if I like the verb....I would like to hear the recorder w/o it. Also I might be able to use a recorder in a faster setting also so another demo in a more lively setting would be nice.......all in all thumbs up images/icons/smile.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Sharmy.
Actually, I haven\'t started with the more wierd ideas yet... images/icons/smile.gif (cats & dogs, anyone...???).
There are no runs recoded, what you hear are played, there are no runs sampled. I\'ve made a special legato patch where the player used portato, that is, started with one note, and then playing a new note by adding a finger but without a new attack. I\'ve then edited the sample so that only the second note is left, if you use this patch you can make quite convinsing drills and runs.
I\'ve replaced the old demo with a new one that uses another verb, please D/L again with the link from my first post.
More demos to come.....


Originally posted by iskandar:
Worra the savior once again. There is a large number of people who would love medieval/ renaissance period samples of cornetts, sackbutts,crumhorns,gemshorns,shawms, tabors on and on and on. Go for it MARK <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">He, he.... thanx! I see what I can dig up! This flutist actually had a collection of baroque recorders, maybe I should record those to?


Originally posted by thesoundsmith:
Love the sound, Worra, but I have to agree that the reverb sonds hokey (I guess medieval digital reverbs were pretty primitive! images/icons/grin.gif )

I would like a bass recorder - the longest, deepest one you can find-although I will probably buy this anyway...

Also sackbutts, crumhorn, etc. I\'m not impressed with the demos I\'ve heard from the Early Instruments collection.

Dasher <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yep, the verb wasn\'t a good one, so I replaced it, please D/L again. I\'ll record a bass recorder and add it to the collection.

[falcon1]

Hi all,

I hope you like the composition even though it\'s a slow aria.

I\'m working on a faster piece which uses all members of the Worra\'s recorder choir.

[pantonality]

Without having heard the demo I\'d like to ask if the samples were chromatically recorded. My limited experience with recorders is that accidentals sound quite different from the white notes, due to the way they are fingered. It\'s an effect you would lose by simple pitch shifting to get sharps and flats. Since realism seems to be important to this group I thought I\'d bring it up.

Steve Chandler

[Oksi Moron]

Well, as long as we\'re asking for the moon here:

Unlike Dasher, I rather like the Early Patches samples. And a few months ago I discovered that a company called Northstar Productions in Oregon offers an Akai library called Ancient Worlds, that includes a whole consort of recorders (not only bass but great bass), crumhorns, rackets, sackbuts, and even a vielle.

Then there\'s the baroque and renaissance lutes and renaissance guitar from Bolder.

So for now my cup runneth over as regards recorders. But if you\'re an early music nut, as I am, there can never be enough of these libraries.

What I would like to have next is a whole consort of viols.

(BTW, one silver lining in the XSample solo strings is that they\'re recorded without vibrato, which makes them good for 16th-17th century violin band music.)

I would also like to have lutes recorded chromatically and with less nail attack than the Bolder ones (good as the Bolder ones are).

Oksi

[Duncan Brinsmead]

This is great! I\'ve been looking for a good set of recorder samples. Have you sampled different articulation intensities? I know that the recorder has a limited dynamics range, but there is a distinctly different chiff resulting from hard and soft tonguing. It would be nice to have a full range of short attack samples that one could layer. Also there are pure legato attacks, as mentioned. If it includes a full recorder set( with bass ) and has different attack strengths I\'ll for sure be a customer. images/icons/smile.gif
Duncan

[Nick Batzdorf]

The recorder is good, although it doesn\'t have the full range of attacks a real recorder has. It\'s only the runs that give it away (because they\'re ornaments that would be played in one breath) - the rest is realistic.

Ignore this if it\'s just a quick demo, but it\'s the harpsichord that bothers me. First, it\'s way too thick because of the close miking - the instrument is supposed to be much more tinkly. Plus the recorder is much farther way in the mix. But mainly, there are too many rolled chords. They need more notes for that to sound right.

I\'ve been playing recorder since I was four, so of course I\'m very critical! Good samples, though.

And thanks for having worrasplace.com and especially the Torkensen (?) marimba!

[iskandar]

Worra the savior once again. There is a large number of people who would love medieval/ renaissance period samples of cornetts, sackbutts,crumhorns,gemshorns,shawms, tabors on and on and on. Go for it MARK

[Danny Lux]

Next time I will finish reading your post before I ask a question. Look forward to it.
Danny

[esperlad]

I have rare instruments and I am not pleased with the sound of that collection any more.
This recorder sounded nice and real. The rapid scale passage sounded odd. The vibrato was nice. Will there be any non-vibrato patches? When I played recorder, my conductor ask me NOT to play vibrato.

[Worra]

Originally posted by pantonality:
Without having heard the demo I\'d like to ask if the samples were chromatically recorded. My limited experience with recorders is that accidentals sound quite different from the white notes, due to the way they are fingered. It\'s an effect you would lose by simple pitch shifting to get sharps and flats. Since realism seems to be important to this group I thought I\'d bring it up.

Steve Chandler <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Steve.

The notes are sampled in thirds, this means that no sample is transposed more then a half note. In a musical context, it\'s practically inpossible to spot which notes are transposed and which are not. Can you spot the notes on the demo?
You have a point there about the tuning and I\'ll check with the musician that did the recordings. If it\'s of importance for the sound, I\'ll re-record it.


Originally posted by Duncan Brinsmead:
This is great! I\'ve been looking for a good set of recorder samples. Have you sampled different articulation intensities? I know that the recorder has a limited dynamics range, but there is a distinctly different chiff resulting from hard and soft tonguing. It would be nice to have a full range of short attack samples that one could layer. Also there are pure legato attacks, as mentioned. If it includes a full recorder set( with bass ) and has different attack strengths I\'ll for sure be a customer. images/icons/smile.gif
Duncan <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Duncan
No, I haven\'t sampled diffrent dynamics.
I discussed this with the musician, and we decided to do one velocity.
As you say, a recorder are limited when it comes to dynamics, and after listening in the studio we decided that there was no real need to sample more then one velocity.
However, I\'ll take this under reconsideration. We will go back to the studio to do the bass recorder, so I\'ll try it again.


Originally posted by Nick Batzdorf:
The recorder is good, although it doesn\'t have the full range of attacks a real recorder has. It\'s only the runs that give it away (because they\'re ornaments that would be played in one breath) - the rest is realistic.

Ignore this if it\'s just a quick demo, but it\'s the harpsichord that bothers me. First, it\'s way too thick because of the close miking - the instrument is supposed to be much more tinkly. Plus the recorder is much farther way in the mix. But mainly, there are too many rolled chords. They need more notes for that to sound right.

I\'ve been playing recorder since I was four, so of course I\'m very critical! Good samples, though.

And thanks for having worrasplace.com and especially the Torkensen (?) marimba! <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Nick

I worked some more on the legato patch, and you can D/L a new demo, just follow the link in my first post.
This also features a new Harpsichord taken from that \"mother of all harpsichord sample CD\", \"Post Harpsichord Vol 1\". Sounds much better then the old one, wich was a virginal, that is, a smaller Harpsichord.
The flute are also a bit more in front and there yet a different reverb.


Originally posted by esperlad:
I have rare instruments and I am not pleased with the sound of that collection any more.
This recorder sounded nice and real. The rapid scale passage sounded odd. The vibrato was nice. Will there be any non-vibrato patches? When I played recorder, my conductor ask me NOT to play vibrato. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Esperlad

Listen to the new demo, follow the link in my first posting. I\'ve worked a bit on the legato patch, legato and fast runs are always the hardest thing to \"mock up\", but I think that this is an improvment!
The patches that are recorded are:

Straight notes with vibrato
Straight notes without vibrato
Legato with vibrato
Legato without vibrato
Stacatto

[thesoundsmith]

The new demo is much better, recorder, harpsichord and reverb. I like it. Do you have a price point/release date in mind yet?


By the way, I uncovered the review of the Northstar Ancient Worlds collection mentioned by Oksi Moron earlier in this thread. It\'s at this Electronic Musician (\"http://emusician.com/ar/emusic_northstar_productions/index.htm\") site.

While that disk is quite extensive, it\'s also (relatively) expensive at $249 for one Akai CD. I for one will happily wait for Worra\'s consort-I am definitely a fan of his products, prices and business model.

Dasher

[Nick Batzdorf]

Much better, Worra.

If you do another recording session, you might want to re-record the rough high Eb. That\'s getting really picky, though, because most players are going to get some notes like that. I sure do, especially in my current state of non-practice!

And if I were producing a mega-hit major label recording of this rather than a demo of some samples, I\'d be inclined to run that harpsichord through a speaker and mic it from a few feet away, probably with small-diaphragm mics rather than what sounds like the big condensesr that were used. This would get rid of that slight 55Hz thump you can hear most in the harpsichord solo passage around :40, leading back to the A section again. Eq might do it, but I think this would get the right sound.

On the other hand, maybe just pulling it back relative to the recorder and taking some reverb off the recorder (and giving the harpsichord more) would solve the problem so you wouldn\'t need to do that.

Again, I\'m being annoyingly critical. This is the best set of recorder samples I\'ve heard, and you\'ve done really good work. As you know, people are always really picky about emulations of instruments they play.

[esperlad]

I listened to the newer demo, and it is an improvment.
I agree about sampling one velocity or dynamic layer, however I think the instruments should be sampled chromatically. I feel that in the long run, users of this collection may get more out of the sound.
I made a HUGH goof. I had stated that Rare Instruments earlier as being a dissappointment. This is not true. I was refering to Early Patches, this is the CD that is not very good. Rare Instruments is a great library!