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Topic: legato layers and 'port' layers

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  1. #1
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    legato layers and 'port' layers

    Hi.

    I notice in K5 editor that GPO samples have legato layers that trigger on CC 64 (and 'port' layers that trigger on CC 19).

    How does a notation prog use these layers? 1) Does user call for them manually [typing in CC 64] in a dialogue that eg pops up when double clicking a slur/legato icon placed in a score; 2) Are they triggered automatically in some notation programs?

    If "1" why not have them be KeySwitch triggered layers instead of obscure/difficult CC layers?**

    If "2", how does a given notation program know to use these layers without being optimized to use them? When I export to MIDI, Overture4 scores made with slur icons connecting some notes, I can't see in that MIDI any change to notes that had slurs connecting them. But if I had input a CC manually [in a notation prog], I would be able to [see notes thus affected in the exported MIDI]. Also how does a prog know to trigger the layer AFTER the first note has been played (so only the post-strike notes are slured)?

    What does 'port' mean? Portamento or portato? The GPO sample layer named 'port' sounds to me just like the legato ones (but that might be symptom of them not having their edited `quality to them when I listen to them in the k5 editor window). [The 'legato' layer sounds the same as the default ['sustain'] BUT that default layer automatically adds the sample layer "accent_X" [bow strike] to play back.]

    CC 19 is a 'general slider'; creator specific. What does CC19 do in a GPO set? (I can't even access CC19 in Overture4 pop ups.)

    ---------
    For novices...

    -first there was 1 [sample] instrument per 1 staff
    -then there was multiple voices per staff
    -then key-switch layers per instrument
    -or layers in instruments triggered by CC use

    **KeySwitches are easier to see and use for user but take up MORE keyboard ROOM (eg there are 12 keys available lower than Contra Basso). That 'room concern' might be the motivation for making the layer a 'CC layer' rather than a KSw.

  2. #2

    Re: legato layers and 'port' layers

    Hello, JM12344321

    You'll need some input from a fellow notation user, which I'm not - but I can pass on a few things:

    You're still using the original GPO, since you're talking about using Kontakt. I'm sure you know that the current version, GPO4, uses the Garritan ARIA Player, and has changed in various ways from that first version, such as with the inclusion of brassier brass samples from SAM Brass.

    Quote Originally Posted by JM1234321 View Post
    ...GPO samples have legato layers that trigger on CC 64...why not have them be KeySwitch triggered layers instead of obscure/difficult CC layers?
    Well, Sustain, CC64 can't really be called "obscure" - it's one of the basic MIDI controllers. Pedal markings in notation trigger Sustain, which is interpreted by Garritan instruments as Legato - But in GPO, there's a separate sample set for notation which uses CC68 instead of CC64. The user has to specifically call up that notation set, not the regular set. I think in Finale CC68 is set up automatically, but my understanding that in any notation program you can customize things so the needed MIDI controllers are engaged.

    Quote Originally Posted by JM1234321 View Post
    ...When I export to MIDI...I can't see in that MIDI any change to notes that had slurs connecting them. But if I had input a CC manually [in a notation prog], I would be able to [see notes thus affected in the exported MIDI].
    You can't see any changes to MIDI notes whether or not slurs have been used. You can only see the string of notes and any MIDI controllers used. But in looking at the audio you would see the results of MIDI controllers like slurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by JM1234321 View Post
    ...how does a prog know to trigger the layer AFTER the first note has been played (so only the post-strike notes are slurred)?
    That's a good question, and I've wondered that myself. I use Sonar. When I engage Legato, the first CC64 event has to come after the start of the first note, for exactly the reasons you state. Then at the end of the Legato passage, I have a CC64 Off event. Maybe this is again a matter of customizing a notation program to know that the first On event of a slur has to follow the start of the first note?

    [QUOTE=JM1234321;716704]...What does 'port' mean? Portamento or portato? The GPO sample layer named 'port' sounds to me just like the legato ones...[/quote

    It stands for Portamento, but you're not getting the controllers straight - More on that after the next quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by JM1234321 View Post
    ...CC 19 is a 'general slider'; creator specific. What does CC19 do in a GPO set?...
    That's right - the MIDI spec has quite a few controller numbers available for unique programming by the developers of sample sets and synth patches. So 19 is one such general purpose controller which was used by the Garritan developers, but it's not actually for Portamento - that's controlled by CC20, not 19. The GPO manual has information on the controllers used, and here's the text about CC19. The controller is for "Hidden Pitchbend Defeat"--:

    Hidden Pitchbend Defeat Controller, CC#19:
    This controller is used on sustained string samples and the trombone to aid the creation of portamento effects when going from detached (non legato) playing to legato playing. This controller switches the instrument to a layer that does not respond to pitchbend data. This gives you the flexibility to draw pitchbend data between two notes that only affects the second note of the pair when carefully placed CC#19 data has also been added to the track. This can be used to help solve certain kinds of portamento problems.

    And here's the GPO manual talking about the actual Portamento Control, CC20:

    Portamento Control: This control lets you slide from one note to another. It is particularly helpful with some instruments, such as the trombone and the strings. There is a knob that adjusts the portamento for instruments that use this function. Additionally, MIDI controller CC#20 can be assigned to an external MIDI fader or drawn as graphic data in your sequencer of choice. Portamento is off by default. In general, slides between smaller intervals require greater values than slides between larger intervals. It is best to draw the data manually (for any specific notes that require slides) in your sequencer or to assign this feature to a separate hardware controller (CC#20) for real-time control.


    That's all I have - You need some responses from notation users, hopefully other Overture users. The awkwardness of using Keyswitches is an issue for notation users, but isnt for sequencer users since we just hit the appropriate key, or insert the low notes in our MIDI editor. But for both notation and sequencer users, the ARIA keyboard is there for reference as to where notes are - something that I recall didn't work very well in Kontakt.

    Randy

  3. #3
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    Re: legato layers and 'port' layers

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