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Topic: Bouncy-bouncy

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  1. #1
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Bouncy-bouncy

    In Sonar X-1 I have 15 MIDI tracks. As I load two instances of Aria and one of G-Player, I create the 3x16 audio tracks automatically and then delete the tracks I will not need when bouncing the MIDI tracks to them. Checking the audio tracks, they are set up as it should be, to different stereo outputs.
    On the bouncing page, I leave the sources ( selecting Tracks, to make each track separate)as they show up. In the Destination area, I can select only ONE TRACK (while all the tracks do show up), so, I end up all the tracks in one destination.
    Obviously I am doing something dead wrong.
    Could someone help?

  2. #2

    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Hi, Ted - I can steer you straight because I always bounce my MIDI tracks and use Sonar.

    Your problem is in trying to bounce to the inserted audio tracks. EDIT - Rest of this paragraph is probably wrong. You're saying you insert 16 audio tracks - so I guess you're not actually using "Simple Instrument" tracks like I momentarily thought.--Original text: (And I'm betting you're using the so-called "Simple Instrument" tracks which usually end up just confusing people. Simple Instrument tracks have both the MIDI and Audio from a soft synth - it obscures what's really going on. It's much more clear if, when inserting ARIA or any other soft synth, if you let Sonar insert the MIDI track and all possible audio outs from the synth. You'll end up with 16 audio tracks - and those are just carrying the sound from ARIA.) EDIT--so, never mind, I would just cut that out - but in case it's useful after all, I'm leaving it in.

    When you bounce, you select your MIDI tracks, the associated Audio tracks, and Sonar automatically creates new audio tracks for the bounces. You're doing the right thing in selecting Tracks, now don't choose a destination. Let the program create the new tracks which will hold your newly bounced audio.

    See?

    To make it a little more complicated - once you have actually blank audio tracks, NOT the kind that are hooked up to ARIA, you CAN use those as a destination - but there's usually no reason to set up tracks ahead of time. The only time that choice is needed is if you don't like the bounce of an instrument - So just delete the audio in that bounced track, and when you re-bounce the instrument, direct it to that same track which you probably have labeled with the instrument's name.

    Randy

  3. #3
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Well, even you could be wrong some time.
    No I am not using the simple instruments.
    When I created my basic template, inserted Aria, in the Insert Synth options I select "All synth audio outputs stereo" which then inserts 16 audio tracks in track view. Wrong?
    When my MIDI tracks are done, and comes the SystemRandy bounce, sometime I succeed, most of the time I get frustrated and postpone...
    Track>Bounce to Track will not work unless there is a selected audio track present. Since I have 16 of them, the bounce seems to proceed; I select as sources of all the MIDI tracks, select Track, (instead of Entire Mix), for destination I select the first audio track, since your advise, tried not to select any, let the new tracks be created. Both ways, I am getting one track properly bounced and the other 15 tracks have no audio at all, but a straight line.
    Many of your "clients" try to prove that they are not the reasons for the problem, something else is doing the deed. I KNOW, I am doing something crazy wrong, just do not know what.
    An other problem make it more frustrating, that while I have 8 Gig memory, cleaned my laptop all the garbage, with this project I am having a lot of " The audio engine has stopped" messages, so I think I am on the verge of expecting too much from this machine. But I like what I am doing and hope to let you hear it some time. If you could help, just to make sure I am not doing it wrong, could you please give me an example just the settings of input and output on one MIDI truck and on one audio track before you bounce. On the midi tracks I have my keyboard controller as input and the VSt as output to midi tracks. On the audio the input is the vst and output is to my sound device. Is this OK?

    Thank you

    Ted

  4. #4

    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    Well, even you could be wrong some time.No I am not using the simple instruments.
    Right, I realized you weren't, that's why I edited my reply - But I left that in on the chance the stray info could be helpful to someone else sometime.
    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...When I created my basic template, inserted Aria, in the Insert Synth options I select "All synth audio outputs stereo" which then inserts 16 audio tracks in track view. Wrong?
    Correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...Track>Bounce to Track will not work unless there is a selected audio track present.
    Incorrect. When you click the Bounce to Tracks(s) option, the default is:

    Destination:
    <numberX)New Track.

    If you want to bounce to a track that already exists, click that menu and choose it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    Since I have 16 of them, the bounce seems to proceed; I select as sources of all the MIDI tracks, select Track, (instead of Entire Mix), for destination I select the first audio track, since your advise, tried not to select any, let the new tracks be created. Both ways, I am getting one track properly bounced and the other 15 tracks have no audio at all, but a straight line.
    But in the Track View are you selecting all of the MIDI tracks as well as all the Audio tracks? To bounce 16 MIDI tracks, you need to be selecting a total of 32 tracks - MIDI plus the Audio. More replies regarding bouncing below-
    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...An other problem make it more frustrating, that while I have 8 Gig memory, cleaned my laptop all the garbage, with this project I am having a lot of " The audio engine has stopped" messages, so I think I am on the verge of expecting too much from this machine.
    Is it a 64 bit machine, and if so, are you running the 64 bit version of Sonar? That's the only way to use more than 4 gigs of RAM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...would you please give me an example just the settings of input and output on one MIDI truck and on one audio track before you bounce. On the midi tracks I have my keyboard controller as input and the VSt as output to midi tracks. On the audio the input is the vst and output is to my sound device. Is this OK?
    The only thing you left out is in the Audio, the input is also the correct Channel number from ARIA. There are two selections to make - ARIA, then in another window, the Channel from ARIA. That's the only way it can have that one discrete output for that single ARIA slot. And output should be to a Master fader, not directly to your interface.

    Randy

  5. #5
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    I did not answer your kind help because I was trying to solve my problem using your points. All day ( to show how stupid I am) working like a maniac, making all kinds of sloppy mistakes, rushing ahead and not checking things before proceeding etc, etc.
    Finally now, at almost 7 in Mexican time, I have my 15 audio tracks, and tomorrow I can start mixing.
    Thanks a lot teach, it helped a lot. In my defense, some of my tracks are in Gplayer, and for some reason I still do not understand, no matter how I had my tracks properly set, Sonar bounced all to one track. Finally I had to leave only one track active and muted the rest, then one by one I was able to bounce them. With Aria, once I "got it" I had no further problems.
    Again, Master, thanks, without you I would have given up bouncing for good.

    Ted

  6. #6

    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    : Bouncy-bouncy

    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...In my defense, some of my tracks are in Gplayer, and for some reason I still do not understand, no matter how I had my tracks properly set, Sonar bounced all to one track. Finally I had to leave only one track active and muted the rest, then one by one I was able to bounce them. With Aria, once I "got it" I had no further problems...
    Hi, Ted - Thanks for the updates on this.

    Glad you seem to be OK with bouncing ARIA tracks now. But you made me curious to see what the G-Player interface is like. I saved the image below from Soundlib's site and drew circles on the places where it would appear you set each instrument's audio outs. They're labeled like the ones in ARIA, "1/2" on through to "31/32." In the screenshot you can see two instruments are both set to 1/2, then slots 4 and 5 are empty, but they've been set to 7/8 and 9/10.

    EDIT: I see I missed one - the instrument at the very top is also set to 1/2.<img border="0" alt="" src="http://rbowser.tripod.com/gplayer.png">It has to be like with ARIA - that you should have 16 separate audio outs coming from G-Player to match your 16 MIDI tracks. Since you're saying that tracks were still bouncing down to one track, it seems like it has be like what I was saying earlier - If instruments are coming out of just that first audio out, then when you bounce, you'll get just one audio track with sound - the others will be flatline because nothing was coming through the outs from G-Player.

    That's the way it looks to me!

    Randy

  7. #7
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Yes, it is very much like Aria. Of course I know that the outs should be matched to the MIDI tracks to separate them. So I did have the separate stereo outs, they are there set up that way as defaults, still, for some crazy reason it did not work. The one thing bothered me, that in Sonar, as you select your outs and the long list of choices come up, in Sonar-Aria it is quite clear, stereo out 1 and 2 for example, while in Sonar-Gplayer it is 1-2 and 3-4 for one track, the next track ids 5-6 and 7-8 ?/?!! Why?
    I just did not wish to bother you again ( and again) with my problems...
    In my opinion, it would have been a great thing to have Gplayer and GPO married in a blissful joining.
    Thanks again, and if you have Giga samples, sound-wise, Gplayer is very good, with the recent upgrade especially.

    Thanks again...and believe me I will have fun tomorrow mixing audio, not MIDI: thanks to you!


  8. #8

    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...Of course I know that the outs should be matched to the MIDI tracks to separate them. So I did have the separate stereo outs, they are there set up that way as defaults, still, for some crazy reason it did not work.
    OK - You know sometimes I get very specific and repeat info, because I can't be 100% sure someone is following. - So you have the separate outs, but still tracks get bounced down to a single track. Totally screwy - Something odd about the way G-Player is built I guess, but that really doesn't make sense. There wouldn't be much point to have all those separate outs if the user couldn't bounce to separate tracks. Hmm - I'm fresh out of ideas though. If you're doing the bounce routine just as you are doing with success in ARIA, then - beats me! The only other possibility is you still have things set up incorrectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    ...The one thing bothered me, that in Sonar, as you select your outs and the long list of choices come up, in Sonar-Aria it is quite clear, stereo out 1 and 2 for example, while in Sonar-Gplayer it is 1-2 and 3-4 for one track, the next track it's 5-6 and 7-8 ?/?!! Why?...
    --? Ted, the audio outs in ARIA are listed in exactly the same way. The first stereo pair is called "1/2" - the next is "3/4"--on through to "31/32." The two numbers refer to left and right for each stereo pair. You're saying that's the way it is in G-Player, but that's identical to the way it is in ARIA.

    Are you confusing audio outs with the slots in ARIA, 1 through 16? Of course the right hand number in the information window under each instrument name in ARIA is the MIDI Channel, default 1 through 16, so I'm sure you're not confusing the audio outs with that.

    Look at the header in an ARIA audio track - You'll get a very long list of possible outs, exactly as you're saying for G-Player. You have the options of choosing just one side of a stereo pair, making it mono, or choosing a stereo out - That's a total of 48 different choices. You're not looking at that drop-down menu because Sonar inserts those tracks for you - But if you ever insert an audio track manually and need to hook it up to ARIA, that's the menu you would use.

    You said these 16 audio tracks are set up as defaults for you with G-Player, exactly as with ARIA. What confusion is there after that? You have your 16 tracks automatically hooked up to the soft synth. Then, in the MIDI track, you need to make sure you have the correct slot chosen in ARIA to match the instrument you want, AND the MIDI channel, because those aren't necessarily always the same.

    ---There's something wrong here in what you're describing.

    Randy

  9. #9
    Senior Member tedvanya's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Aria:
    Out/1 Left
    Out/2 Right
    Out1/0ut2 Stereo

    Gplayer:
    Out 1/2 Left
    Out 3/4 Right
    Out1/2 /Out 2/3: Stereo

    ???

    Sorry, but my wife for 63 years are ordering me to quit and get to bed...

    Ted

  10. #10

    Re: Bouncy-bouncy

    Quote Originally Posted by tedvanya View Post
    Aria:
    Out/1 Left
    Out/2 Right
    Out1/0ut2 Stereo

    Gplayer:
    Out 1/2 Left
    Out 3/4 Right
    Out1/2 /Out 2/3: Stereo

    ???

    Sorry, but my wife for 63 years are ordering me to quit and get to bed...

    Ted
    hehehe, well she was right! I didn't mean to keep you up late, Ted.

    OK, now that is very curious indeed, that single mono channels in G-Player would be numbered the way you're showing. From the screenshot I posted, all I can see is the expected "1/2" etc, like ARIA. Their site isn't long on detail, it doesn't go in to describing the full architecture of the plug-in. So I've written a letter to their Support, asking for clarification on how they number the audio channels, and why it would be that a user gets all MIDI tracks bounced to a single audio track the way it's been happening for you.

    Hope they reply - I'll post what they say here!

    Randy

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