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Topic: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

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  1. #1

    Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Yesterday I tried inserting those SEND knobs. You know, SEND wet/dry to a reverb in a bus. But I couoldn't find how to do this. The input to the project were 4 wave files, I redirected them to busses in where I can adjust volume, panning (those xtra busses are there to leave the original audio untouched). Then I wanted having some SEND Dry/Wet knobs to reverb busses. Where are those bloody things? Can't find it out how to get them.

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Tried it another time and FOUND IT!!!!! What happened to me yesterday? No idea. Just clicked right on the bus (Console View) and found the Assistant does the job. Is it spring or just old age....?

    Happy Raymond

  3. #3

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    hehe - That was a fun little drama to live through, Raymond. I'm glad to see you already have the resolution you needed, and that you're moving ahead on the project. You got it - Right click on a channel strip to activate those Send knobs.

    Here's an old screen shot taken in Sonar, several versions back - so the look of things is different, but the mixing tools are still the same:



    You can see the greyed out potential Sends as compared to the activated ones. Notice you could have two Sends on a strip - like one for Reverb, one for Chorus. And actually, there's a button in the Console View where you can activate FOUR potential Sends--!

    I highlighted those windows at the bottom of the string channel strips to show that instead of their signals going to the default destination of the computer's audio interface, I've directed them to a bus dedicated to strings. And then you can also see they each have a Send directed to the "Effects" bus that has a reverb plug-in strapped to its FX bin.

    While I'm here with that picture, I want to comment on something in your original post - "...I redirected them to busses in where I can adjust volume, panning (those xtra busses are there to leave the original audio untouched)..."

    If you meant that literally, you're limiting the amount of detail you can have in your mix.

    Notice in the screenshot that the visible string tracks are all at different levels. At that point in the project, I had been honing the mix of the relationship between those tracks. The original MIDI tracks had lots of volume data, but as is always the case with me, the balance between instruments is improved a lot when I'm in the mixing stage. The pan settings are dark in the picture, but those are active also with each track in its own panning position. The string bus is primarily just the audio conduit for the sub-mix of the strings as its already been set up with their channel strips. No more panning is done there in the bus, because that would throw the whole group to one side. I want to maintain the spread I have in those string tracks, so the bus's pan knob has to remain at center.

    Notice the volume slider on the string bus is outlined in red. That indicates I've armed it for automation. As the project plays, in real time I can change the level of the entire string section with that one control, adjusting the output slightly when I need strings softer or a bit louder in the mix. After playing the project while adjusting that bus slider, there's a detailed volume envelope in place that will now control the bus during the rest of mixing, and during the final mix down. That envelope can be edited by hand if needs be.

    Notice that the Effects bus slider is down to -2.0. That slider could also be automated to vary the amount of reverb throughout, in case that's needed. Here I've taken it down a bit as a way of making a global adjustment to the instruments' reverb level instead of having to adjust each individual Send.

    So - the "original audio" is always untouched, since editing and mixing in Sonar is "non-destructive" - But a bus isn't there to do all the work meant to be done in the instrument tracks. In fact, a bus is unable to do everything that can be done on the tracks since it's just one audio channel. See?

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    In short, Randy sometimes I have my days and sometimes not, though the NOT is creeping in more and more these days. A sick wife, low budget, high taxes, new sample libs, reconfiguring an old laptop (my wife's), some listening to new recordings of all symphonies of Mozart, getting acquainted with Beethoven's String Quartets, worries about my grandson (he still has that juvenil dermatiositis), ........ I am complaining, do you notice? (haha)

    What a life, but still on the positive side.

    Thank you for the reply, which I didn't read by the way........ (sorry). I am doing it exactly as you, I managed to see in a glance, leaving the original audio untouched........ maybe I phrased the problem the wrong way.

    Raymond

  5. #5

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    ...Thank you for the reply, which I didn't read by the way........ (sorry). I am doing it exactly as you, I managed to see in a glance, leaving the original audio untouched...
    ---OK, with fewer words. I do not know what you mean "leaving the original audio untouched." That is the way it always is in Sonar. Edits and mixing do not change the original audio.

    Earlier I was trying to make sure you were doing most mixing work with the tracks themselves, not so much in the bus.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    ---OK, with fewer words. I do not know what you mean "leaving the original audio untouched." That is the way it always is in Sonar. Edits and mixing do not change the original audio.

    Earlier I was trying to make sure you were doing most mixing work with the tracks themselves, not so much in the bus.

    Randy
    I meant, no trimming, no equalizing, no envelops, no whatever on the original audiotracks. I'll do that in the busses.

    Raymond

  7. #7

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    I meant, no trimming, no equalizing, no envelops, no whatever on the original audiotracks. I'll do that in the busses.

    Raymond
    Interesting. I have no idea how that would work. Maybe you can explain it to me sometime. Not being facetious -I really don't understand.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3





    • Tracks 1-4 are the imported wave files having their output in/to busses 1 - 4, which I never use for trimming, equalizing etc. because one never knows if the audio WAVE/TRACK has to be reloaded with a different version;
    • Busses 1 -4 each have some DRY/WET send and output to the RV.... busses where PerfectSpace does the reverb job for each of the instruments;
    • And the RVbusses have their output to master.


    It works!

    Raymond

  9. #9

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Thank you very much for the reply and screenshot, Raymond - Now I understand what you're talking about.

    It's very interesting. You're using Buses the way tracks are usually used. You seem to have a separate bus for each audio track, basically doubling the number of audio tracks actually needed in a project. The levels, Sends, panning etc are usually on the tracks, but I think you actually know that.

    Buses are called that because they can carry many passengers. The passengers are the audio tracks. Like in my screenshot, all of the strings are going to the Strings bus so I have control over them as a group. Each section of the orchestra can have a Bus: woods, brass, strings, percussion, so the overall balance between the sections can be easily mixed. If you want the same reverb on a section, then using the Bus Send works great.

    If you need to load a new version of a track, you can delete the original audio but leave all track automation in. There's a pop-up asking what you want to delete. Leave the automation, and then when you import the new recording, what you already had in the track will work on the new audio file. The EQ etc - all of that can be used on the new version.

    And I think you know when you trim an audio track in Sonar, you're not actually trimming the original audio file. That always remains untouched. We're only looking at visualizations of the actual audio. If you make a slice and get rid of part of a recording, you can change your mind later and drag the clip out to its original uncut length, and all of the audio will be there again.

    What you're doing works, because all of the signals are flowing eventually to your interface. But you're not availing yourself of the power of what Buses were designed for.

    All FYI. Thanks again for showing me what you meant.

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Stupid me about SONAR 8.5.3

    Good morning Randy,

    I know that buses can have more than one passenger. With orchestral pieces I always do that, e.g. all violins 1 go to a bus, all voices of violas go to antoher bus, etc..... In this particular example (picture) I only have one of each, but the setup was some sort of a templated thing.....

    Raymond

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