• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 12 123411 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 111

Topic: Skills aren't keeping up with the samples

  1. #1

    Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    Never in a million years would I think realistic sounding instruments would begin to \"showcase\" an inability to orchestrate. It use to be the other way around. My arranging and composing skills were more advanced than the instruments.

    Remember when solo violins, or solo cello were so bad, you could never use them properly? We used lots of string pads, etc., which were so easy to apply.

    Thanks to Garritan, VSL, and all the others, we now are able to properly orchestrate. Rather than using a string \"pad\" we use a combo of one cello voice on its own track, one viola on another, and maybe a few layers violin strings on another track - more emulating a real orchestra.

    Problem is, doing things \"right\" is extremely hard to make sound good, and wondering how do you guys do this?

    I write the entire base composition in piano. Composition typically has left hand playing some base chords while right hand is countering with melody. Converting those chords/melodies to strings is very difficult. If I simply replace the piano chord/melody track with one big sample of sustained strings (using AO, not that it\'s relevant), it actually sounds OK. But I know I\'ll never be happy with the end product orchestrating and using samples that way. Maybe this is where I send the piano composition to an orchestrator and call it a day? [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] This does not intuitively sound right, as the composition can change completely depending on the orchestration, instruments used - so there would have to be lots of collaboration. On the other hand maybe this would be a less painful way to learn how to use these samples and save my sanity as the same time.

    I do realize there is no easy answer. Just wondered if anyone else ever hit this wall. Maybe I\'m wrong? Maybe it is ok to play a two note chord with my left hand and a melody with my right hand using one sample of susstained strings and one midi track to emulate a piano chord/melody? It certainly is a cheap and quick way to produce that full, complex sound.

    Thanks for any comments.

  2. #2

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    Ummmmm, what are you really asking ??

    A good solid understanding of counterpoint and modern orchestration will add years to your life ;-) not to mention!!! more depth to your ideas.

    No offense please, but i find questions like this a true sign of the times. Granted, technology has opened many doors, but also the flood gates of mediocrity.

    Education is essential, talent then can truly be actualized.

    Get these two books as a starting point::

    Principles of Orchestration : Rimsky-Korsekov
    Counterpoint: Knud Jeppeson

    Good Luck!

  3. #3

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    So rather than throwing my daws out the window, I should get a book.

  4. #4

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    I generally use the \"all strings\" patch from GOS when composing. This way I can still get realistic sounding strings but very quickly with no tweaking.

    As to orchestration, I\'ve read a book lately that helped my orchestration skills immensely. It\'s called The Study of Orchestration by Samuel Adler. There is one chapter on transcribing from keyboard to orchestra which sounds like exactly what you\'re looking for.

    I bought mine used from amazon. You can also get a CD set to listen to all of the examples from the book.

  5. #5

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    Hehe, you beat me to it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  6. #6

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples


    Yes, this is EXACTLY it. I\'m on way to ordering this, along with SWL\'s reading suggestions. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy - this I know. I just thought it would come naturally, like composition. What a rude awakening.

  7. #7

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    Originally posted by Daedalus:
    I generally use the \"all strings\" patch from GOS when composing. This way I can still get realistic sounding strings but very quickly with no tweaking.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Daedalus,

    Do you then go back and separate out the parts of the \"all strings\" or do you sometimes just use that one track and sample to fulfill a chord with your left hand and melody with right hand. Sorry for getting so elementary talking left and right hands, but I don\'t know how else to describe it.


  8. #8

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    You make a good observation. The technology is in a way making us come full circle. The virtual orchestra is presenting \"virtually\' the same challenge as the real one.
    Orch. Sample are becoming less and less a seperate and distinct idiom from the real thing.

    In addition to the fine recommendations made
    here already, I think it sometimes helps to compose away from the piano/keyboard. That way, you are thinking linearly (melodic line, counterpoint, etc) and will more likely hear an orchestral color as you do. As instrumentalists sometimes we let our fingers do the work that our ears and minds should do.

  9. #9

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples


    from the Jazz genre approach, the fun is doing it all in real time by creating so many takes until the conversing of instruments are maximized to say those boys are really talking to each other.. Of course live music is the ideal way.

    Alan Russell

  10. #10

    Re: Skills aren\'t keeping up with the samples

    Hey Bri,

    Thanks for bringing this back from the brink of such seriousness. I certainly identify with your example. I too once put a percussion track to piano - and it was wonderful.

    Hi Frogness,

    Shatter seems to best describe what I need to do. Shattering 45 years of doing something one way - this ought to be amusing. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] So instead of writing as you say with chords and a melody against those chords, I write discrete voices. When you have time, can you elaborate and give an example? Sorry you got stuck explaining something that is probably obvious to everyone else here.

Go Back to forum
Page 1 of 12 123411 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts