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Topic: New Entrant

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  1. #1

    New Entrant

    Hi Folks
    First post with a few questions. Looking at purchasing Garritan (probably the collection) in the near future., and would like to use edrums for triggering some instruments. Now, there maybe some limitations with sustain, for non percussive sounds, but this I can deal with.
    What I, initially need to know is whether different iterations of an instument can be programmed to respond to velocity, within aria or does it need a different midi note, as set out on the keyboard?
    Secondly, I would like to use some recording software, somewhere in the pipeline. Any recommendations beyond Finale? It seems expensive and I guess has more features than I need.

    Thanks, in advance
    Mark

  2. #2
    Senior Member fastlane's Avatar
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    Re: New Entrant

    Welcome to the Garritan forum Mark!

    I take it you want to use edrums to trigger at least the percussive Garritan instruments. That should work fine. It sounds to me like you will need a keyboard with at least a mod wheel to play in the midi notes and maybe a sequencer based DAW like Sonar, Cubase, Logic, or Digital Performer. Maybe you would want to use Ableton Live if you're interested in beat type music. The Garritan non-percussive instruments use modulation(usually with a mod wheel) to control the velocity and adds an expressive effect. Velocity is used for the attack of the note.

    You mention Finale. Do you want to produce notation for sheet music that can then be performed by musicians?

    You should tell us exactly what you want to do unless you're not exactly sure about it.

    We hope to hear back from you with more information and questions.




    Phil

  3. #3

    Re: New Entrant

    Thank you Phil
    No, I don't need to print so I shall look at your recommendations. I have used cubase before. So would that mean loading Garritan as a plugin as opposed to stand alone?
    I understand the mod wheel and its necessity in a lot of sounds, am I right in thinking an expression pedal would do the same thing? I can see me running out of limbs here!
    Just to be clear on the sample iterations. Old school drum samples only had a variance in volume from velocity though these days units either change samples or add other elements, as velocity increases - snare drums getting more of a ring and such like, for example. Some of the drums in 'world' seem to be spread out over a number of keys. Its not a huge deal, I'll just need to alter my trigger interface.

    cheers
    Mark

  4. #4

    Re: New Entrant

    Welcome Mark,

    Some perhaps over simplified notes:
    For percussive sounds note velocity varies volume as well as timbre.
    In this case none of mod wheel (cc#1), expression pedal (cc#11) and breath control (cc#2) effect volume or timbre, although there may be other controls that do.
    (Any one of these controllers (1, 2, 11) is used to effect sample playback volume for non-percussive instruments. They all work in the same way.)
    Note velocity, also effects percussive sounds from normally non-percussive instruments, e.g. pizzicato violin.
    Maximum loudness of sample playback is governed by channel volume (cc#7).
    In most cases percussive sounds are mapped to different notes as is the case with GM drums,
    i.e. a snare will be a different note from a hi-hat. I can't think of an example where it's not.

    Any help?
    John.
    Author of MIDI tutorials at http://midi-tutor.proboards.com/index.cgi

  5. #5

    Re: New Entrant

    Greetings, Mark, and welcome to the Forum - I'm glad you found us here and have jumped right in. You present an interesting picture of what you'll be doing with Garritan instruments since you're a drummer/percussionist - I'm not sure I've seen an Edrum musician on the Forum before.

    Your new conversation thread is a good example of how folks like to be helpful here. You've already gotten excellent guidance from Phil and John. I'll pull out a few quotes and add what I can:

    Quote Originally Posted by airflamesred View Post
    ...I would like to use some recording software...Any recommendations beyond Finale? It seems expensive and I guess has more features than I need...
    As Phil said, it's DAW software you want for the work you'll be doing. You've used Cubase before - Then I would suggest that since you're familiar with it. Using the term broadly, Finale could perhaps be called "recording software," but that term is usually used for the "sequencer" style programs like Sonar, Cubase, Digital Performer. Finale is a notation program, primarily for producing printed scores, even though it's gotten relatively sophisticated in letting the user also produce audio renderings of their notation.

    Quote Originally Posted by airflamesred View Post
    ...would that mean loading Garritan as a plugin as opposed to stand alone? I understand the mod wheel and its necessity in a lot of sounds, am I right in thinking an expression pedal would do the same thing?...Old school drum samples only had a variance in volume from velocity...
    Taking those in order - Yes, so ARIA (the Garritan sample player) would be loaded into Cubase or any other DAW software program as a plugin. Then the Garritan instruments are loaded into ARIA - 16 slots available in each instance of ARIA that you load into your recording software.

    John addressed this, but to be clear, Yes, an Expression pedal accomplishes exactly the same volume control on sustaining instruments as the Mod Wheel. The pedal sends out MIDI CC11, the Mod Wheel sends out CC1. Both of those controllers are interpreted the same way by ARIA.

    Using your terminology, the drums and percussion would basically be described as "old school." Their volume is controlled by velocity, with a few exceptions of things like snare rolls which have their swells controlled by CC1 or 11. Garritan instruments have one layer, with a variety of timbre controlled by filters which are in turn controlled by velocity and volume control.

    As you progress on putting this all together, I'll be curious to hear how it goes - So, please stick around!

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: New Entrant

    I'll try again, my earlier reply seems to have gone astray. Thank you John and Randy. As long as there is some change in timbre with velocity, thats fine. My reference to old school, was harking back to early simmons where a change in volume was all you got for your money.
    I will, still probably alter the trigger interface to allow each piezo access 2 different inputs - so separate channel, note and velocity curves - should make things interesting!
    Just to clarify with the cubase option, Randy, I should load this first rather than Garritan as a standalone and worrying about the DAW after. I imagine complications trying to swap?

    Once again thanks for your time and friendlyness.
    regards
    Mark

  7. #7

    Re: New Entrant

    Quote Originally Posted by airflamesred View Post
    ...Just to clarify with the Cubase option, Randy, I should load this first rather than Garritan as a standalone and worrying about the DAW after. I imagine complications trying to swap?...
    Hello again, Mark

    I think I'm following - It sounds like you do plan on using Cubase, since you need a recording program for the pieces you'll be writing with your set up. The ARIA standalone is really just for things like quickly loading an instrument you want to noodle with, or for performing live. But since you're wanting to build projects in Cubase, that's where you should do all the work. Open Cubase, insert an instance of ARIA, and start loading the instruments you need.

    Besides, there's a severe limit to how many instruments you can access at a time in standalone. I have a single stereo channel audio interface - In standalone, I only have access to 1/2 outputs, that stereo pair. But in DAW software, you can access all 16 stereo outs available in one instance of ARIA, courtesy of the host, Cubase.

    Randy

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