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Topic: VSL...gulp

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  1. #1
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    VSL...gulp

    OK, I need to take back some of the potentially negative critisizms that I recently posted about the VSL. I stumbled upon a bunch of demos today on the ILIO site that I had not heard in my initial evaluation. After putting them up on the big speakers and carefully listening to them, I do believe that this library is going to seriously change things. The reason I currently use live instruments is because I find I need to hide the things that make samples sound synthetic, but I can easily see VSL making that requirement slimmer and slimmer. I\'m thinking the trumpets are still a little synthetic sounding...not horribly so, just enough to make me question the illusion. Some of the flute stuff is questionable in my mind, but perhaps once this is layered in with the entire orchestra, it wouldn\'t be so noticeable. I could see the need to hire a couple of violins to just add a touch of glue to the violin runs and transitions between notes, but man everything else is pretty darn amazing.

    2 questions though:

    1. What is this library going to do to the sample library community? Clearly, there is no longer any need to achieve what they\'ve seemingly done, and I don\'t think any economically minded developer could try to outdo what they\'ve done in Vienna. I think it\'s going to be a really difficult time for smaller developers to compete when something like this will clearly dominate all sales and fulfill most people\'s needs.

    2. What\'s the difference between the cube and the performance packages? Does the cube contain everything that I would need to do the work that is displayed in the demos on the Ilio site, or would I need the full deal to do that?

    -J

  2. #2

    Re: VSL...gulp

    Go to their site at www.vsl.co.at

    There you will get the lowdown.

    I agree wholeheartedly with you that this library makes the difference between \"virtual\" and \"real\" quite slim.

    In regards to the other libraries, I think they are going to have to remain competitive through their pricing and packaging.

    Once the library is complete and users get their chops in order, I doubt very seriously that outside help will be needed.

    The only downfall to this library is that you practically have to be a sound engineer to get the best mixes out of it because of its lack of reverb and mono only recordings.

    This in my opinion is good for some and not so good for others.

    If EWQLSO doesn\'t get me I\'m springing for VSL because I can\'t afford to splurge on both.

  3. #3

    Re: VSL...gulp

    Hi

    The samples are in stereo aren\'t they? The .GIGs on the demo CD available in the UK certainly are. I take your point about mixing though. The stereo is DDSW type stereo and not real orchestral placement stereo if that makes sense. On the plus side, that might make it easier to blend with other libraries. You may feel the need to do this because.....

    I have to admit the demo GIG\'s don\'t sound that great to my ears. The demos sound fine but the actual .GIGs I\'m not so sure about. The violins for example have an unpleasant harsh, almost scratchy quality to them especially at fff velocities. GOS sounds SO much smoother and just er... nicer. The brass (trumpet and trombones) sounded thin and lifeless to these ears. The staccato bassoon was nice except it has a tendency to wander slightly in the stereo image. All this is highly subjective of course. I\'ve had the demo CD for well over a week now. I\'ve listened countless times but it hasn\'t mellowed with age [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

    I\'m not sure I could be happy with this library unless the Performance stuff is totally awsome. I have to admit, the Performance set demos on the VSL site sound fantastic but I can\'t match what I hear there with the .GIGs on the demo CD in terms of the basic tone of the samples.

    One other major downside for me with VSL is they don\'t appear to have done ensemble woodwinds, even in the Pro edition. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

    My money is on EWQLSO at the moment providing they have put enough articulations/legato/alterantive staccatos etc. stuff in there.

    Love to hear anyone else\'s opinion of the VSL demo CD .GIGs. It might just be my ears!!!!

  4. #4

    Re: VSL...gulp

    Alllibraries are going to offer up a \"sound\". With that in mind, I think all libraries that come out after VSL will be usefull. I personally think that VSL is going to be \"core\" in my templates. If anything jsut for the performance stuff, but most likely for some multisample samples too (the dynamics and sfz are really playable). The reason I say this is that I think I\'ll be able to mix this library with about any other library to get the added nuances of VSL, and still vary my \"tone\" with other libs. Matching EQ, and basic reverb should make it possible.

    Somewhat like layering live musicians over other samples.

    You\'ll need both the orchestral cube and performance cube to get what you\'re hearing in the demos Jamey.

    Marsdy,

    The legato and performance stuff is killer.

    I actually like the \"grate\" in the strings a bit. They help cut through at fff. Its actually something I feel thats been missing in the strings libs except what I\'ve heard from the Roland stuff. SI has a bit of the grate too, and I love it.

    DIM,

    There\'s no doubt that they\'ll be developing tools and resources to help us mix too. Who knows whats coming in giga 3.0. What if there is DX support, one could jsut use impulses for EQ and reverb. maybe pre-panned and FX loaded \"prf\" files.

    There\'s no doubt that I\'ll be on board to help with any mixing tips I have....but thats par for course with any lib I have [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    about splurging on both. I have a sneaking feeling that this is really gonna be the way to go. I mean both libs are gonna have (maybe extreme)strong points over the other, depending onthe sound you want and what you focus on in terms of performance.

    If you\'re like Jamey, you really focus on nuances. If you\'re like Lewis, you focus on the overall \"sound\" of the recordings. Its still an issue with me, since I think you need both in one lib.

    I cant wait for EWQLSO and the mic control, but as of now I\'m blown away with the legato stuff in VSL. All I\'m hoping for is that they\'ll work well together. If they do, I\'m set, and will prolly not need any more orch libs.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Nigel W's Avatar
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    Re: VSL...gulp

    If for no other reason, after the VSL material has been in use for some time and becomes known, people will be desperate for a fresh sound.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Right...I think the way to go for developers will be to produce sounds with character (like SAM horns)- kind of like booking a \"real musician\" [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] with his/her own style/personality (of course, this applies to solo more than sections).

    And, 24bit will become standard.

    Finally, we will (I hope!) see more competitive pricing.

    What will make or break any library, after sound quality, is ease of use, and transparent performance control,for the professional composer.

  6. #6

    Re: VSL...gulp

    King, you\'re more than likely right about the need for both libraries. I already know theres going to be something about EWQLSO thats going to demand its purchase. DAMN [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  7. #7
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    Re: VSL...gulp

    Has anyone here heard note 1 from the EW library? I\'ve searched around and could find nothing on it. If the QL brass library is any indication, I can\'t forsee it competing with VSL (forgive me, Nick...I hope my opinions don\'t deter you...they\'re just opinions). I\'m curious to see where this anticipation is being generated from.
    -J

  8. #8

    Re: VSL...gulp

    I finally got my copy of the demo CD and all my expectations were confirmed. The strings are a bit metallic and while I haven\'t heard much of them I don\'t think that area will be something I delve into. The brass and woodwinds however interest me very much. Marsdy, just run the brass through the \'brass\' impulse - its huge! The brass is not recorded so as to bring it to life so this needs to be done. The only woodwind I got to play with was the bassoon staccato but I think the performance stuff is what this is really all about. Actually I think that\'s what its all about; All the demos they have are impressive _because_ of the performance set. Without it they\'d just be nicely recorded instruments like any other library.

    Maybe it would be better to get the performance set instead??

    If anyone wants to hear the VSL brass sounding huge then contact me for an mp3 (don\'t everyone do it though \'cos otherwise my bandwidth will overload [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ).

  9. #9

    Re: VSL...gulp

    Jamey,

    VotA is recorded much better than QLBrass. There is no doubt in my mind that EWQLSO will sound freaking amazing. In fact its near impossible that it will sound bad. Besides you\'ll be able to shape your sound with 3 mic positions. Nevermind its recorded by Keith Johnson. \"fohgeddaboudit\" Its gonna sound freaking amazing.

    Will it \"play\" as well as VSL\'s stuff...thats still to be seen. It will all depend on the piece of music anyway. Huge orchestrations drown out most nuances anyway. Enough of the ambience and the right sampling in QLSO will prolly sound fine. Solo pieces or smaller arrangements on the other hand I\'d be a bit concerned about.

    still after RI and VotA (with 2.0 programming minus the heavy filters they added), QLeap has redeemed itself from the \"ok\" job that QLBrass is/was in today\'s market.

    You\'ve missed alot of going ons Jamey [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Dan Dean Brass Ensembles, SAM horns, SI Strings....lots of stuff about those libraries while you\'ve been out. Brass especially has been pushed forward. That was a fun old topic for yah, would have been great to get your input on the happenings at the time.

  10. #10
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    Re: VSL...gulp

    Originally posted by KingIdiot:
    Jamey,

    You\'ve missed alot of going ons Jamey [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Dan Dean Brass Ensembles, SAM horns, SI Strings....lots of stuff about those libraries while you\'ve been out. Brass especially has been pushed forward. That was a fun old topic for yah, would have been great to get your input on the happenings at the time.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Cut me some slack, King!! I\'m still paying for my GOS!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    Seriously though, it\'s been a crazy coupla years, let me tell ya [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    -J

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