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Topic: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

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  1. #1

    Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Hi,

    So often I read of editing or tweaking sample libraries in Giga.

    When we say we\'ve edited or tweaked a sample library in giga, what does that mean please? I understand that we all add some amout of reverb/eq, but are there other edits or custom adjustment of the samples that you routinely perform in giga? Is it not likely I will generally be able to get what I need by simply using the samples vanilla out of the box?

    Thank you.

  2. #2

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Hi Joanne,

    I see three distinct tweaks:

    1) Effects like EQ and reverb applied to the end performance,

    2) Changes made within the editor. This would include micro-tuning, attack, decay and release modifications and other re-programming of a gig. This can be redistributed with a .art file, and

    3) Mangling the samples of a gig. You could do things like apply a \"sliding EQ\". For instance, you could apply a different EQ to the high notes than to the mid and low notes of a gig. Another example would be to add a bunch of compression to your snare and tom samples, but leave the cymbals and bass alone. You can\'t do these tweaks to a final performance.

    A tweak that I\'m really happy with is that I made custom gigs for all of the libraries that I\'ve purchased (and that I regularly use) with a different bank for every instrument. I\'ve set the program numbers for various articulations to be somewhat consistent. Now I can load my instruments in any order, and they don\'t \"bump\" each other into different program numbers.

    This scheme of mine helps me to stay organized, and lowers my frustration level, which helps creativity. Last week I did a flute melody with various articulations (portato, marcato, staccato, sustain...). For fun I tried it with violin by simply changing the bank, and the articulations mapped right across. I still needed to tweak a few articulations to make it pleasing, but it was along the lines of \"change all of the marcatos to hard sustains\", so it was fast and easy.

    I hope this is helpful.

  3. #3

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Hey Joanne,

    \"Is this an example of what one would typically use giga editor for\"

    You\'re dead right. The editor is responsible for everything above the level of the raw sample. If the sample is on the wrong key, out of tune, doesn\'t respond to velocity as you would like, switches to another sound with the wrong controller, or at the wrong point of control, fades too slowly, needs filtering or lfo vibrato, crossfading, attenuation - they\'re the types of things you have a lot of control over in the editor. These edits can be undone at any time.

    For edits which go to the core of the actual sample you need to send the sound to an audio editor. These edits are destructive, so a backup is often a good idea.

    The audio editor is useful for things like: permanent gain change (perhaps the sample simply doesn\'t have enough level no matter where you turn it up in Giga), EQ (the NFX eq is pretty basic), creating loops, cutting up or cleaning noise from the sample (perhaps the attack is wobbly and useless, or perhaps there\'s a glitch part way though, or airconditioner noise!), permanently layering sounds to save polyphony (prehaps you always layer three particular sounds in Giga - so just layer the samples in an audio editor, render them, rebuild the instrument and save 2/3s of your polyphony).

  4. #4

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Joanne,

    \"And when we create \"just the right release\". I suppose we apply that to all notes in the sample and save that \"style\", as opposed to editing only the notes we actually use.\"

    You can actually select ALL the regions which you want to deal with, even regions which are in dimension which aren\'t active, and edit them simultaneously as easily as editing a single sample in a single region. It\'s usually just a matter of rubber banding. But, yes you can just work on a single region and save your result as a \'style\'.

    The editor has a function called \'macros\' (Nemesys\' version of \'styles\'), which allows you to save almost all of the editor\'s pages as a template which can be applied to any sound you load into it. You\'re also able to save just one section of the editor - perhaps the amplifier envelope page. That way, you can load a new sound, keep the rest of the edits on it, and just update one element - pretty cool.

  5. #5

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    For the sustain control, you might consider setting your keyboard to control cc-7 (volume) or cc-11 (expression - the same as volume, but it won\'t alter your mixer settings.). You can then ride the fader as you record your strings.

    I recently had good luck recording my fader controls on a second pass - after I had recorded the notes. This let me concetrate with furrowed brow while focussing on playing the right notes with the right timing. Then, on the second pass (overdub), I closed my eyes, went into a dream-world and put my soul into the fader. If I didn\'t like it, I\'d stop the take, hit undo, ctrl-home and record again. The results were smoother than what I can consistently draw, the timing was excellent, and the results came quickly. Much better than hand editing envelopes.

    In the end using the fader will likely be more musical than striving for a one-size-fits-all decay.

    But don\'t let this discourage you from entering the world of the editor. Lots of good stuff there. And if you really want to edit gigs, the GigaStudio Mastery Tutorial is a great resource.

  6. #6

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Hi Joanne, my editing or tweaking in the Giga editor is limited to very simple things like changing the keyswitch keys for example.

    As I have a 76 note controller, many instruments map the keyswitch keys right down the bottom of an 88 note keyboard. If the instrument range doesn\'t overlap, I simply move them up.

    I guess I\'m mentioning this to say that I am pretty clueless in the Giga-editor but it is handy to know some very basic functions so that you can tweak your lib\'s a bit if need be.

  7. #7

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Joanne,

    for what you\'ve mentioned about the sustains, you\'re much better off doing what Jon suggested about using MIDI CC7 or CC11 (use CC11, its best to use CC7 for setting overall volume). As this way every note (including repeating notes) wont have the same exact \"drop off\".

    Anyhow, what you\'re asking about is manipulating something called an envelope generator (in this case controlling amplitude) using ADSR (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release) settings. In giga\'s case its ADSDR as there is a second decay in the chain. To get the effect you\'re looking for you could set the first decay time to how long you want the \"fade out\" to be.

    by all means dont be afraid to spend some time working with the giga editor. Its not as huge an undertaking as one might think if you start with learning some basics of how a sample playback engine works (like learning what an ADSR is), I find that too many people on this board cry and whine about the editor, when they should be spending that time getting used to it.


    Now about \"tweaking\". Well without me going onto a 8 page essay about this.... lets jsut say there are MANY things one can do.

    You can mix and match samples in the raw sample form with a wave editor.

    You could chop off attacks to make \"false legato\" samples in a wave editor or adjsut sample start points in the sampler\'s editor to get the same effect.

    you could remap regions of different instruments to make them more interchangeable with other instruments.

    You could remap regions and change their pitch to get effects or jsut new sounds.

    You could stretch regions at the highest and lowest point to increase the range of an instrument.

    You could make loops for samples that dont have loops.

    you could create your own release triggers from stacattos samples, or samples that actually stop playing.

    you could make crossfading instruments instead of velocity switcching instruments.

    you could add reverb to the samples so you dont have to later (and make release triggers)

    you could add an LFO (low frequency occilator to amplitude to *simulate* tremolo of real instruments.

    you could add LFO to pitch to *simulate* vibrato of real instruments


    the list goes on and on

  8. #8

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Originally posted by JonFairhurst:
    For the sustain control, you might consider setting your keyboard to control cc-7 (volume) or cc-11 (expression - the same as volume, but it won\'t alter your mixer settings.). You can then ride the fader as you record your strings.

    I recently had good luck recording my fader controls on a second pass - after I had recorded the notes. This let me concetrate with furrowed brow while focussing on playing the right notes with the right timing. Then, on the second pass (overdub), I closed my eyes, went into a dream-world and put my soul into the fader. If I didn\'t like it, I\'d stop the take, hit undo, ctrl-home and record again. The results were smoother than what I can consistently draw, the timing was excellent, and the results came quickly. Much better than hand editing envelopes.

    In the end using the fader will likely be more musical than striving for a one-size-fits-all decay.

    But don\'t let this discourage you from entering the world of the editor. Lots of good stuff there. And if you really want to edit gigs, the GigaStudio Mastery Tutorial is a great resource.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Good points Jon. I agree on using controllers to \'custom\' the samples (for expression) to the project at hand. It also helps me in my intinctive fear of the editor. Having said that I wish I had more \'crossfades\' of every library I owned (VSL, all of SAM\'s, etc.) There are some XFades in all of these but I really want more. I know Thomas has made tons of these. I guess I just need to dive in.

    Another great topic Joanne (were you the one in the College study group that always spearheaded the group\'s direction??)
    [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Rob

  9. #9

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    Hi Chadwick,

    Thank you for taking the time to clarify the differences between the giga editor and audio editor. These were two terms I’ve heard, but didn’t know if people where using them interchangeably and actually talking about the same thing or not. My EW Steinway B has a sampling error on only one key (lower C) – sounds like there’s something stuck under the key when struck at any velocity, which will need the audio editor, as you’ve described it. You are obviously advanced in the use of both tools. My guess is many hours spent self teaching and learning out of necessity. Can I ask how long you’ve been using Gigastudio?

    Hi Jon,
    Thanks for your reply. The faders make sense, but where do the CC keyboard settings come in? I am aware that I can control many aspects of one note or an entire bank of notes via the cc settings on my keyboard controller. Why would I need to apply both midi cc and fader? My guess is that I’m not understanding, and I’m sorry. Wonderful to hear there is a Tutorial for Gigastudio. Thanks so much for that lead, and glad to hear you are finding tips and tricks that work so well for you.

    Hello Scott,

    Keyswitch keys. These are the keys, usually on the lower end of the keyboard, which will change attributes of the instrument - vibrato, increase attack, and in some cases, volume. I hit them all the time by mistake. Some samples have them, some don’t. At least I hope that’s true, or now I can add keyswitches to the “don’t understand list”. I didn’t know I could remap those keys and appreciate the new info.

    You have such a nice set of varied libraries, and I can see why you are likely able to find most things you need right out of the box without lots of tedious editing. Thanks for re-enforcing (and proving with your demos) that it is possible to produce some nice things with vanilla samples, at least until I have the chance to learn these other tools.

    Hi KingIdiot,

    Yes, it’s the decay (not release) on the Sustained Strings sample that needs to fade out, and editing amplitude makes sense. When I first acquired SAM Horns, I needed that loud BLAT for a fairly lengthy part, which I could only achieve by striking the keys very hard using the out-of- box settings. I think it was Sharmy that led me through how to get that the blat effect with a normal soft keystroke using the giga editor. So to your point, I don’t think I’ll be able to escape learning the editor. I don’t have a lot of libraries yet, but of what I do have, none of the instruments do exactly what they need to do. Other than self -experimenting and the tutorial mentioned, have you found any other Giga editor teaching aids?

    Thank you again everyone. Don’t think I could tackle this one without the re-enforcement.

  10. #10

    Re: Scope & Definition of Editing Samples

    >> \"The faders make sense, but where do the CC keyboard settings come in? I am aware that I can control many aspects of one note or an entire bank of notes via the cc settings on my keyboard controller. Why would I need to apply both midi cc and fader?\"

    There are two ways to control cc-11 (or any other linear MIDI parameter). One would be to draw the curve into the sequencer, the other is to play it in real time from your keyboard using a fader. There\'s no need to do both. One or the other should suffice. (Though you may choose to draw into your sequencer to fix an *almost* perfect fader performance.)

    You should be able to go into your MIDI keyboard menus and set one of the faders to control cc-11, Expression. Then as you play into Giga and you flail the fader, you will hear the volume change as you play. You can record this all at once (keys and fader), or overdub the fader performance on a second pass.

    Keep in mind that some gigs are programmed to achieve an even better result by using the mod wheel. For instance Sam Horns lets you crossfade from a squeek to full blatt. For patches that lack the mod-wheel/blatt control, cc-11 is the preferred control for expression.

    I hope this helps clarify things.

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