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Topic: I hate phrases!!!

  1. #1

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    I don\'t feel need for any kind of phrases or melodic loops either. I\'m always kind of rolling my eyes when I hear them in peoples music. Nobody\'s propably ever gonna find out you\'re using them except other musicians. But yeah, if speed is an issue, then it\'s more than acceptable IMO.

  2. #2

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Take 10 phrases, give them to 10 composers and you have 10 different pieces of music. Beautiful, isn\'t it?

    Alex Cremers

  3. #3

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    That might actually be a good experiment to try on these forums.....

  4. #4

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Originally posted by Tumababa:
    That might actually be a good experiment to try on these forums.....
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">If you (or someone else) can supply the phrases, count me in...


  5. #5

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Imparting proper phrasing on a musical instrument is difficult to impossible - and they are a far sight more artificial than the expressive potential of the human voice. The best interim solution is to have samples with some modicum of expression and phrasing imparted in them, and then allow the composer to work with that. It\'s confining, but with the right kind of technical and musical savvy can be very gratifying.

    I think that the acoustically modeled voices from Yamaha and Zero-G sound promising, but I think they are for a different purpose. Plus there\'s the issue of ensemble building. Do you want to have a stack of machines just to hole SATB of Vocaloid? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

    If phrase libraries don\'t suit your purpose, don\'t buy them. I\'ve been waiting for something like BelaDMedia\'s intimacy and musical immediacy for some time. I think that having both multi-samples and phrase-based instruments to be a boon.

    It\'s all good. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  6. #6

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Phrases - VOTA words - Voices of Faith.

    The first thing I want to shed some light on is this \"I want words in any language sung by an entire choir - all words in any key so I can make my own lines\"

    Think of how many words there are in one language and how many ways there are to say each. No choir I know of (and I have access to many) would even think to sit in on a session of that magnitude. Voices are not guitars. We can only expect so many hours from them.

    Zero G has come very close and I can only tip my hat and say YIKES! I hate to see that recording bill!!

    I think we all owe Nick Phoenix and team a major thank you for the concept they came up with to somewhat get us there.
    It is sheer simplicity masked by sheer brilliance.

    Because of Nick and Zero G, we can fool the average bear.

    And a great point has been made - Only we know what we are using. Your client does not - nor do they, in most cases, care.
    I come from the audio post world and needle drop is huge and when you can say \"Yes, I can give you a full choir singing in Latin\" you just made a sale as a composer.

    Now, you have to be a bit smarter than that when using phrases. Anyone can drag and drop. With VOF, we have gone deeper.
    We have provided historic hymns and chants in all keys broken into well over a 100 + phrases and allow you to use them in CHOIR , MEN or WOMEN mode.

    They are in Latin - very melismatic on their own. If you take a phrase that reads 1 2 3 4 - you can make it read 4 3 2 1 or 3 2 1 4 and so on.. you ARE in control. Don\'t forget you have that same phrase in 13 keys.

    I truly belive this is major.

    I do respect what is being said in the negative about phrases. Don\'t forget I am a composer too. I know what you mean. But when I am handed the color red - I can easily make 20 shades there of.

    Francis Belardino

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Any tool can be used creatively. There are 1000 interesting things to do with those SOV phrases. Load them into Reaktor, and they\'re a whole other universe, which can\'t be recognized as the original or as anything \"preconceived.\"

    Those SOV phrases have been a tremendous boon to me over the years...if you don\'t want to dig deeper and find the creative ways to use them, that\'s your loss. They\'re fantastically useful, and hardly a cop-out. Think outside the box!!

  8. #8

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Bela D and Bruce,

    You both make very good points and I think we can all prove that when VOF comes out... we\'re bound to see and hear all the user demos that will follow (much like all the GPO stuff that\'s coming).

    When I first heard about loops and samples and was very underinformed, I thought, wow, the end of music... no more originallity, just thousands of Puff Daddies all using the same lines over and over. Then I took the time to educate myself all on all of this and listened to the demos and as hinted at in Francis\' post;

    If I and the painter next to me are sharing the same tube of red oil paint, will we both paint the same color/shade/tone/mood/pic...?


  9. #9

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Bruce you seem to be one of the main reaktor users on this forum.

    Could you ellaborate on \"Load them into Reaktor, and they\'re a whole other universe, which can\'t be recognized as the original or as anything \"preconceived.\"?\"

    Like which ensembles do you use for this purposes, etc. Thanks!

  10. #10

    Re: I hate phrases!!!

    Originally posted by JudasCloud:
    After deleting all of the useless phrases in SOV I ended up with only 1.4GB of sounds. Phrases are just as stupid to me as if some made a book of short, one bar pieces of music and said, \"You can use these to build your own compositions!!\" Or some one selling a book of sentences to writers.

    I can understand some one using phrases if they have to come up with something REALLY fast for a job, but not anywhere else. I CAN\'T understand how some could use a phrase from one of these libraries in a piece of his \"real music\" and still say, without feeling like he was lying, that he had \"written it\".
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Why then did you buy SOV?

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