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Topic: OT: David Lucas Burge

  1. #1

    OT: David Lucas Burge


    I\'ve just purchased the david lucas burge ear training cd\'s from ear-training.com. It seems like quite a useful tool for me who have never had any ear-training before! I\'m just somewhat sceptical of the \"perfect pitch\" course since I\'ve always heard that one is born with this ability! But I heard some examples and I could actually hear the difference of the colors of different tones.

    I\'m just wondering if anyone here have had any experience with these courses?

    Love and respect, Plundrik [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

  2. #2

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    I was thinking about getting those \'perfect pitch\' courses, but I too was skeptical about the whole thing. But man, that\'d be an extremely useful trait.

  3. #3

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    well perfect pitch is an age old debate ..... most now will claim that perfect pitch is an inclination that some folks are born with ... so without proper exposure to music, the skill will never exist. good ol\' nature versus nurture.

    but to answer your question .. yes ... it can be learned .... we refer to it as relative pitch ... someone with TRUE perfect pitch can recognize pitches regardless of the sound source ... same type of person that can tell a conductor which instrument in an orchestra is out of tune, and some can tell u how many cents the instrument is off etc.

    when in school ... i noticed that i had a very good sense of pitch, but was sometimes wrong ... so i worked on it, and now i have what i call \'imperfect pitch\' :-) last time i took a hearing test, i was able to tell the administrator the pitches as well ... she thought it was rather clever ..... but yes, great tool to learn, and yes, i used the same program as you to patch up the holes in my ear .... it was many years ago, but surely it works just the same .... but, careful what you ask for .... at first it will be hard to turn off .... your brain will recognize pitches in everything .... car horns, birds, sounds of daily life .... can be nerving until u then learn to shut it off :-)


  4. #4

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    no ... perfect pitch can be learned .....it is not some sort of divine gift ......


  5. #5

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    Passacaglia, I think Plundrik and Aaron are actually referring to learning actual perfect pitch and I share their scepticism. I think its all about learning to see the colours when you hear the tones as Plundrik says. Whether its actually possible or not I don\'t know.

    I would be interested to hear what the course is like when you start it, Plundrik, as my pitch recognising ability definitely needs to be improved. I get so much music in my head that I end up not being able to work out and losing \'cos of my lack of relative pitch recognition. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] I can work out basic melodies and stuff but its still limited really.

    I used to know someone who had perfect pitch and he could recognise the pitches in obscure things like fire alarms and stuff. The problem is with perfect pitch is that if something is not in tune to the standard scale then they can\'t work out the intervals. Relative pitch is probably more useful in general.

  6. #6

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    Relative pitch is what you want i.e. the ability to perceive a note based on a reference - in other words intervals. I\'m not sure what the advantage of perfect pitch is other than a nice party trick (slight exaggeration).

    As an aside: I remember in my theory courses, during ear training exams, instructors purposely played in a different key then what they told you to write in just to make the perfect pitch people have to actually identify the intervals. Some had a hard time with this. It was like seeing green and having to write down blue. Of course, they were, to my knowledge, all born with this ability. I\'m skeptical that real, full blown PP can be learned and, again, I\'m not sure what the advantage is.

    Relative pitch, identifying intervals and chords, on the other hand is very very very useful and kind of fun to learn.

  7. #7

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    From what I\'ve experienced so far, i like the course very much. I have spent some time with both the relative and perfect pitch courses.

    The relative pitch course will most definately help to develop a good musical ear, but I still have some doubts about the perfect pitch course. Having perfect pitch would help me greatly if I am able to develop it, definately not just a party treap IMO. I am now able to hear an E flat inside my head and sing it correctly almost every time, hardly perfect pitch, but maybe a start.. From the examples presented, it is surprisingly easy to find different sound colors of different tones. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Anyway, those cd\'s are not a very big investment, i paid $129 for the whole thing.

    cheers [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    Their appears to be a lot of current research being done into Perfect Pitch; in identifying the genes associated with those who posses it, which parts of the brain are involved, and, of course, understanding its nature/nurture qualities. Here is one such study: UofC, SanFran

    The areas of the brain stimulated by pitch discrimination vary between people with PP, RP, and those with neither.
    \"Recent MRI scans a musicians, non musicians and people born with perfect pitch, have shown that when people are presented with pitch discrimination tasks, TWO areas of the brain go into action, In people with AP, one center dominates, in musicians with strong relative pitch, the other dominates. In non musicians little, but EQUAL activity, is seen in both centers.\"

    Apparently there is a strong genetic aspect of PP.
    \"A study of 500 musicians, with and without perfect pitch, by N. Freimer at the University of California, revealed that half of those claiming perfect pitch knew family members of like talent. Only 5% of those without perfect pitch made this claim.\"

    It also helps a great deal, so say the researchers, if you start early musical training.
    \"Surveys by Baharloo of students at such schools as the San Francisco Conservatory of Music, the Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia, and the Peabody Institute in Baltimore, support the theory that a mix of nature and early age nurturing produces the perfect pitch person. Of 620 music students questioned, 15 percent reported possessing perfect pitch. Almost half of those who began musical training before age 4 reported perfect pitch, as did nearly one-third of those who started music between the ages of 4 and 6 years. Only 2 per cent of those who started music training after age 12 reported perfect pitch.\"

    Most quoted studies indicate a 1 in 10,000 chance of having PP.


    Then their is Perfect Time. \"Perfect time can be even more uncanny than \"perfect\" pitch. Rumor has it that Eugene Ormandy was always able to produce exact tempi without reference to a metronome. Even stranger (far stranger) is the rumor that he was always able to tell exactly what time it was without referring to a timepiece. The existence of such an innate time sense seems far fetched,
    but is confirmed in the latest issue of Scientific American, where the ability of an individual with \"Savant Syndrome\" to do just this(to within a second!!!) is reported.\"

    Viewing perfection from afar,

  9. #9

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    Now this thread is really getting quite intriguing. Perfect time though, is that really such a rare thing? Solo pianists must have a great sense of time as they have no audible reference as they play. Either that or they\'re just not playing in time at all. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    A person\'s sense of rhythm and timing does varies though. Mine is certainly a lot better than my sense of pitch, its quite good in fact.

    Plundrik, I\'ll have to check out the website. It sounds as if you may be developing perfect pitch....

    Actually I just tried to go to the website and all I get is this: \"This is a temporary page for ear-training.com\"

    Well great..

  10. #10

    Re: OT: David Lucas Burge

    Perfect pitch is handy when it comes to naming every note in a big Stockhausen piano cluster, or dictating by ear and so on. From experience, it can also be a real affliction if what you\'re hearing isn\'t what you\'re seeing.

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