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Topic: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

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  1. #1

    OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Hello,

    as I had mentioned a few weeks back, I have prepared a little demo piece using Sibelius with the new Edirol HQ-OR Orchestral Synth.. given the recent discussions on using notation programs with sequencers, etc. this seems even more relevant now (I hope it is at least a bit relevant [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ).

    Anyway, for those interested, the demo piece is a Symphonic Dance (a sort of a tango) for full orchestra, written purely for fun and giggles. It is scored for 3333 4331 Timp 4 Harp Strings, and it is about 15 min. in length.

    The piece is played back by Sibelius by means of three separate instances of the Edirol HQ-OR VSTi hosted by Cubase SX, one of each dedicated to Winds, Brass, Percussion + Harp. All of the strings are from a Roland SRX-04 \"Symphonic Strings\" board in a Roland XV5080.

    The HQ-OR built-in effects are used, as well as the XV5080\'s, all of them setup and controlled directly from the Sibelius score. The mixed result is then fed to a Lexicon PCM91 running a subtle hall reverb to place the orchestra in a common space. The result is then slightly compressed and recorded back into Cubase.

    After a relatively \"mild\" introduction, theme and development a much more intense section begins at about 8 min., in fact, for the next 7 min. or so the orchestra is playing \"tutti\" almost continuously. In other words, you hear the Edirol VSTi and Roland board being given a serious workout, and you get to evaluate how well these sounds blend even in \"wall of sound\" type of passages.

    The Sibelius score is pretty much clean, meaning that no \"~\" commands appear anywhere, other than the usual patch and tempo changes. This setup is as easy to use (if not easier) than any GM module would be. This is a completely \"point and shoot\" system: write the music in Sibelius, press P to play it back.

    No MIDI manipulation of any kind was performed, and you should know NOT to expect an expressive or human-like performance (quite the opposite..). Those who have used Sibelius in the past know what I mean.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Needless to say, this is not even close to where one can go using Giga and the fantastic libraries available these days, but for quick sketching (and, well, for _composing_ I would say) I find this to be a respectable environment.. I\'d be most interested in knowing what the most biased and discriminating crowd of sample-dwellers on the planet thinks of this. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    The mp3 file can be downloaded (or streamed) here: http://www.mp3.com/apessino
    You can see the score here: http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/showscore.pl?scoreid=31237

    Unfortunately, mp3.com only allows for 128 kBit/s encoding (!), and of course it sounds like crap. If your mailbox is big enough (about 20Mb needed) drop me a line and I can send you a version of the file encoded at 192 kBit/s. Also, if you have Sibelius and would like to see the full score actually used for playback (as opposed to the GM version available on the SibeliusMusic site) I can send that as well.

    Cheers,

    -A

    --------
    Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
    Blizzard Entertainment

    apessino@blizzard.com

  2. #2

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    the crowd sits in stunned silence.....shouts of \"Bravo\" erupt toward the rear of the hall and repeat in staccato fashion like flashbulb eruptions at a sporting event....the cheering breaks out spontaneously and moves from the third balcony to the orchestra seats in a tidal wave...
    the audience is slowly rising now, a standing ovation, and cries of \"encore\" can be heard...

    That\'s quite a Tour De Force- I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for sharing it with us.
    Carl

  3. #3

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Thank you very much, Carl! That was very kind of you.

    As someone on another thread going on now might say: that\'s going on my Web site! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] (just kidding.. I don\'t even have a Web site!).

    Thanks again..

    A-

  4. #4

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Congratulations, Andrea,
    I found your music piece very good, very interesting, balanced, and mastered.
    This is (to me) a cruel reminder that even \"simple\" tools can give good things when used by a skillfull hand.
    ------
    Listening to what you have achieved just with a vst instrument and an expansion card, I realize that sometimes we less talented people long for the latest and biggest libraries, while in fact with more writing technique and musical inspiration and fewer samples we could still make something valuable.
    --------
    Compliments apart, I had already been impressed with the HQ-OR demos from Edirol\'s site, and your piece confirms that it\'s a worthy piece of software to have in one\'s PC for composing/sketching and even demoing.
    The sound is always convincing, dense, detailed. I\'m sold on it.
    -------
    Don\'t hesitate to post other pieces on mp3.com and tell us, it always be a pleasure !
    Gilles

  5. #5

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Andrea,

    Thanks very much for this!

    I\'m a big time Sibelius user and have some of my very early, simple short scores posted on sibeliusmusic.com also. Using a full featured notation software tool like Sibelius is the best, and practically only way I like to think of music creation.... I suppose that\'s very traditional...but it\'s just what I like. You can take the boy out of a music major program, but you can\'t take the music major out of the boy.... (something like that.)

    I\'ve also been reading and researching a lot on how to use Sibelius with GigaStudio...and think I have a fairly good idea now on how to do it. I think soon, I may take you up on it and see your original score .sib if you have a chance. I\'m also very curious about the preformance set mapping in GigaStudio you\'ve created for it.

    Has anyone, for instance, mapped a General Midi performance set, ie GM designated Voices, like program/vioce 44, being Violins (I think).... which when used in your own mapping in Giga, turns out to be accessing your sound library\'s violin ensemble....etc. WHICH are not GM sounds.

    This way, your sibelius file can practically be GeneralMidi but use better voices when used with Giga. (I\'m sure you\'ll have to use more program assignments as GM can be limited to ALL the possiblities with say what a sampler can provide..) Just trying to save time w/o having to re assign voices all the time. I\'ll probably have to create my own fake, pseudo + GM sound set that maps to better sounds.

    Anyhow, I have bought GigaStudio, but haven\'t yet bought a sound library yet, cause I\'m on the verge of thinking about the Vienna library, now that it\'s shipping.... the issue for me is just the insterest rate on my credit card :-) But a good investment in a sound library should be a one time purchase I guess. I\'m very excited.

    -Hunter

    PS: Stefan/falcon, you reading this? :-)

  6. #6

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    I\'m here Hunter, [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    The problem of setting up a General Midi is that often you need to have more than one midi track per instrument.
    I for one, use often separate midi track for legato and staccato. Also sometimes even separate tracks for \"p\", \"mf\" and \"f\" playing (more if available).

    However, there are one (I don\'t know of others) Gigastudio library build as GM alternative and you find info about that one on Tascam gigastudio website. I think that the instruments there are numbered correctly. Example: Violin pr/40 etc.

    I think it\'s wise idea to wait with big buy decision until February, then we have heard more demos from VSL and EWSO.

    Btw. Did you listen to my newest BoB demo? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  7. #7

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Originally posted by falcon1:
    I\'m here Hunter, [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    The problem of setting up a General Midi is that often you need to have more than one midi track per instrument.
    I for one, use often separate midi track for legato and staccato. Also sometimes even separate tracks for \"p\", \"mf\" and \"f\" playing (more if available).

    ...

    Btw. Did you listen to my newest BoB demo? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think I may have heard it. I\'ll go look for it again. It was rather Baroque, no? (maybe not I\'ll go look...)

    BUT, instead of having multiple tracks per sound type, can\'t you just change voice assignments within a track? I mean in Sibelius just use Control-t (technique) and use ~P<number> to change the voice assignment back and forth.

    That\'s what I think I may do. Also, in reading other articles. With Sibelius, you can use the Dictionary and create your own techniques. Like instead of .pizz, reserve the technique \"bartok pizz\" or something, which maps to a differnet GigaStudio assigned voice. I don\'t think there is necessarily need to add more tracks as long as you can change voices w/in said track.

    W/O GigaStudio, now, I can share channels sometimes doing this technique when changing between solo violin, to tutti violins in the same First Violin part. no?

    -H

  8. #8

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Hunter,

    Yes, I created baroque demo also but the newest demo is more romantic. (Click here)

    Yes, I know what you mean. I think I read somewhere that it weren\'t possible because Sibelius doesn\'t \"know\" what patches you have loaded in Gigastudio or was it that it isn\'t able to change what channel is associated with the track. I\'m not sure. [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

    However, I tried to something like this few months ago without luck so I gave up and started to use Sonar to create my performance versions.

  9. #9

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Originally posted by falcon1:
    Hunter,

    Yes, I created baroque demo also but the newest demo is more romantic. (Click here)

    Yes, I know what you mean. I think I read somewhere that it weren\'t possible because Sibelius doesn\'t \"know\" what patches you have loaded in Gigastudio or was it that it isn\'t able to change what channel is associated with the track. I\'m not sure. [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

    However, I tried to something like this few months ago without luck so I gave up and started to use Sonar to create my performance versions.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Not to keep going on and on... but this may be of use for others.

    It\'s very easy indeed to share many voices on one MIDI channel with GigaStudio and Sibelius.

    Try it out. Use Technique ~P<voice/program number> above the staff and you\'ll hear the voices come out differently.

    Sibelius doesn\'t have to know what voices are loaded at all... But you have to know which voice/program number corresponds with what loaded instrument on the GigaStudio port.

    If you manually force the \"Program\" number in the Sibelius Mixer window, as opposed to using the voice select context sub menus (which won\'t exist unless you create a voice list file for your own GS voice performace set), you should be ok to assign that voice for Giga.

    Using ~P directly in your score does the same thing too...if you need to change mid stream.

    So, if your Device is Nemesis Port 1 (etc), and in Sibelius, your channel 2 track is First Violin in the Mixer window by default, for instance... you can switch voices in your score using ~P<number> to change the program to the corresponding GigaStudio voice number that\'s loaded.

    Switch from say violins to solo violin, or in your BoB case, muted trumpet to non muted trumpet, or something.

    The GigaStudio loaded instruments tab should list all the instrument voices by number (as well as the default voice per track/channel) for that port.

    In fact, you can use the ~ for a number of MIDI messages... like volume and expression, etc. The Sibelius manual explains this in detail.

    In my mind, Sibelius is practically a pretty nice almost feature complete sequencer program because you can hardwire in MIDI messages at will, or create your own Dicitionary of techniques and expressions which will be picked up by your MIDI device.

    As its focus is music notation, Sibelius however, in contrast to the full feature set (ie recording, etc.) and ease of use of genuine sequencer functions program like Sonar, can provide at least, some rudamentary support for hand generating MIDI messages.

    Don Buckley, who has done some pretty cool work with GigaStudio, and is credited for some of the demos on Dan Dean\'s site, wrote an awesome introductory .pdf on how to map Sibelius to GigaStudio. He\'s done a number of things which sound pretty nice using Sibelius/GigaStudio and a few libraries. His rendention of the Hebrides Overture, ie, is pretty good. I emailed him once and he was very helpful.

    Here is the link to the .pdf which he posted as a message on the sibelius technical chat page:
    http://home.tallships.ca/island/interface.pdf

    His link to the Hebrides is listed in that article...also check out his credits in the demos for http://www.dandeanpro.com
    (do I get kudos for pluggin Mr. Dean too? :-)

    -Hunter

  10. #10

    Re: OT: Demo of Sibelius playback w/ Edirol HQ-OR and SRX04

    Hi Hunter,

    I\'ll try this out, seems to be another approach than I tried. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Thanks for the tip.

    btw. Of course I know that I can use volume etc. by manually put them in, but it\'s so slow progress. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

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