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Topic: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

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  1. #1

    Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    Would it be fairly simple to create a piano library in which pressing a key would trigger some of the overtones at a lower volume and possibly filtered? I\'m not talking about adding sine tones, here--I mean something much simpler: pressing the key just triggers the samples that would be the overtones. Basically just a Casio-chord type of thing, but with the overtones sounding much more softly. Would polyphony be the only problem? (I know--not a small problem.)Obviously, only a few of the overtones could be played this way, and obviously I\'m thinking that this would have to be something that was controlled with a mod wheel to turn it off or on. For legato passages only.

    Maybe a better way to describe what might be accomplished: not so much as creating the overtones, but instead recreating the sound of the strings vibrating when any one string is struck. I understand that this way of working would do nothing towards creating the new overtones created by chords.

  2. #2

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    There is this VST called the Piano Verb that acts very much like you are describing...http://www.pspaudioware.com/
    It is a bit old but it is free,
    Sounds very interesting but won\'t work on my set up.
    J

  3. #3

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    I know this has found its way into dedicated electric pianos. Roland now have several models with a \'sympathetic resonance mode.\' It would be fantastic if a sampler - or perhaps rompler - could manage it, as I think the lack of realistic interaction between the strings is the greatest hinderance to realistic sounding pianos.

  4. #4

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    PianoVerb is great, but it\'s verb... I\'m really wanting this more for a close perspective. (As if the existing libraries didn\'t already sound great.)

  5. #5

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    I\'ve long wished for a way of generating overtones by holding down the upper keys and playing related lower ones (you know, hold down C4 and bang a C2 etc). Not being able to do this excludes a fair amount of modernist repertoire that demands it.

    I can\'t quite imagine how this could be achieved because as every time an upper note was left hanging when the performer goes to play a lower note, the lower note wouldn\'t sound and an overtone generated only, which wouldn\'t occur on a real instrument. I\'d imagine it would need some sort of midi controller input to instigate - or am I totally wrong here?.

  6. #6

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    Jake,

    Nicholas Huzan at Veridical Sounds did exactly what you are asking for with his \"One old Upright\" - a Bechstein, if I remember right. You can listen to it here:

    http://www.btinternet.com/~veridical.sounds/

    I don\'t think he ever released this sample.

    Hans Adamson
    Art Vista Productions

  7. #7

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    Well his demo links are not working, I notice. You should contact him for more info.

    Hans

  8. #8

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    The GeneralMusic \"RealPiano\" keyboards (and perhaps later versions) modeled sympathetic resonance better than any others I\'ve heard. You could hold down a key like C4, strike C3 and you\'d hear the octave overtone quite clearly. The similar effects on other brands I\'ve auditioned, including the newest ones from Roland and Yamaha, are pale imitations.

    The modeling made a big difference in realism, but the piano samples themselves were lacking. Don\'t know what the more recent GeneralMusic pianos sound like.

    There is a web page dedicated to the GeneralMusic player
    http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html

    that has a lot of other information relevant to this subject. He\'s constructed a series of \"realism tests\" mostly around effects like resonance. Look toward the bottom of the page under \"The elk test among digital pianos\" where he compares pianos like Michiel Post\'s Grandiosos, the Steinberg Grand and the RealPiano in terms of how well they show resonance effects. He doesn\'t really get into the quality of the samples themselves. Worth reading nevertheless.

  9. #9

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    I heard the Nicholas Huzan upright when he posted the mp3, and urged him to release the library, but he was caught up in other things. Has anyone heard from him?

    I\'ve read the Fogwell site, and played the GenMusic pianos. I think the emphasis there has been on adding synthesized tones to create the overtones. I\'m curious about the more basic approach of just having each note actually trigger the samples for some of the overtones.

    Michiel? Bruce? Franky?

  10. #10

    Re: Overtones, sort of, triggered in a piano library?

    (Maybe there\'s a VST effect out there that could do this? I posted a request for information on the kvr site, and only got one response from someone who had programmed a vst that played one overtone.)

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