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Topic: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    I hate to see important topics get buried...

    In another Vocaloid thread, developer Ed Stratton of Zero-G was kind enough to see our point about the benefits of font/library development tools being available to all users of the technology.

    He agreed to bring this up with his high-level contacts at Yamaha.

    We are still waiting to see if EastWest will make a similar plea for this important issue.

    Doug, can you let us know if you, too, will join Ed, and advocate for the end user to have access to these tools?

  2. #2

    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
    I hate to see important topics get buried...

    In another Vocaloid thread, developer Ed Stratton of Zero-G was kind enough to see our point about the benefits of font/library development tools being available to all users of the technology.

    He agreed to bring this up with his high-level contacts at Yamaha.

    We are still waiting to see if EastWest will make a similar plea for this important issue.

    Doug, can you let us know if you, too, will join Ed, and advocate for the end user to have access to these tools?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Bruce,

    We\'ll mention it again when we meet with them at NAMM, but we\'ve already asked them if the software will be available separately and the response was as I told you before.

    - Doug

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    To be very specific, I am more concerned with the development tools being included with the Vocaloid software, whether it is bundled with content or sold separately. I am in 100% agreement that the complexity of the session/editing to produce vocal fonts would make a \"bare edition\" highly unsuccessful. People will want to turn it on, and make tracks.

    But putting the development tools in the package will allow end users to learn those programming techniques, will encourage them to suggest new and potentially more efficient ways of constructing the development environment, and will contribute to the overall success of the product.

  4. #4

    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    It would assure long term improvement, especially with such a promising product as Vocaloid...

    Freedom to the sample tweakers!!

    I know most people would just use it as is, but I might personally hesitate to buy a closed sample-based plug-in. I don\'t know why some developers are taking this decision of enclosing samples...

    Freedom to the samples!!

    After all, if some people degrade the original programming through mistweaking, then people will just use the original thing... On the other hand, if some geektweakheadz make miracles out of it, then the community will benefit. I don\'t know what are the reasons behind this, but it is counterproductive in the end.

    We may not be many, but we can rock the boat!

  5. #5

    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    I think this is a good example of what Bruce was saying a few months ago regarding closed development platforms/copy protection. The beauty of Giga or Kontakt being open platforms is a previously unheard of programmer can become an independant developer without a ton of overhead.

    Over the last couple years some great libraries have been developed because of this. Look at Francis and Diva - Scarbee and his libraries - Bigga Giggas - These are \"small\" developers, but by utilizing the software as is, it makes it very good for the further development of the platform.

    As much as I like Doug, and his company, as well as the other larger sample development companies, the industry needs the samller people, because they do help the development of the industry as a whole.


    Bruce, is there a way we could create a \"public opinion\" Petition type thing, where NS users could argue for this? I think it\'s safe to say NS has one of, if not the largest concentration of professional and non-pro sample users and developers on the web. Maybe we could make a difference?

    J-

  6. #6

    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    One of the most successful video games of all time - Doom - owes a lot to the fact that the developers made the map tools available to the public. These tools were pretty unfriendly, and making your own 3d map was a tedious process, but the result was the development of a huge \'underground\' support network of mapping sites and unique maps for Doom. The extra maps and models really added perceived replay value to the Doom game. Even though only one in a thousand users bothered to take the time to code them, and some maps and models were crap, a large number were very popular.

    Nowadays, it\'s common practice for this type of game to come bundled with highly developed mapping and modelling tools for the \'home hacker\'.

    Unless they\'re written in a totally undecipherable language and completely bug ridden, I can only see good things coming from making Vocaloid development tools available to the public.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    Originally posted by J. Whaley:
    Bruce, is there a way we could create a \"public opinion\" Petition type thing, where NS users could argue for this? I think it\'s safe to say NS has one of, if not the largest concentration of professional and non-pro sample users and developers on the web. Maybe we could make a difference?

    J-
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think you\'re doing it.

    This IS the point I was making several months ago. Once people start buying into the idea that editing samples at the lowest levels is expendable, then you start seeing moves to take those tools away entirely. Then you don\'t have the Garritans, the Bela-Ds, the Bardstowns, the Dan Deans, the Scarbees...you only have the largest distributors with access to programming.

    Software synthesis exploded onto the scene largely because the power in the situation got handed back to the musician. No more RAM-cards so you could have 64 new patches. No more limitations of how you could program. No more limitations on the kinds of synthesis you could market--what would have been an impossible niche in hardware could be developed and recouped in software.

    Now you are seeing the same kinds of proprietary, closed-door methods being attempted, in order to take that power away from the individual musician and concentrate it (and profits) once again in the hands of \"the experts who know better than you.\"

    You\'d better believe this is a trend. But also believe you can stop it cold, because you can. Let your opinions be known...use this forum to let that message be heard. This group is a more powerful political voice than you can imagine, and no subject is more on-topic to the future of sample libraries than this. Even more important, let your wallet do the voting. Support vendors who support your right to edit and manipulate samples and technology as it pleases you. Anyone who is serious about this idea of programming freedom for new technologies like Vocaloid needs to simply hold onto his or her money, until the editing/development tools are included--and let the vendors know that\'s the deal.

  8. #8

    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    Perhaps they just want to milk the product themselves and be the exclusive developer of the virtual singers?

    I could be wrong but does Trilogy, Atmospshere, EWQLO, GPO, and others include the development tools to allow you to make additional sounds/instruments that can be played with their interfaces?

  9. #9

    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    Keytar - first of all based on the initial libraries we\'ve seen it sounds like Yamaha DOES need outside help!! We have new instruments emerging, not new singers [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] I like Eric Persings approach though - see it as something new, not something that\'s replacing what\'s already done well.

    In the future we\'ll probably see this type of technology develop and then one day Vocaloid will be pre-historic and people will have a pluging that makes a voice sound like vocaloid for an effect!


    As for Spectrasonics plugs - you can edit them on the interface, but that\'s about it. You can change the synth parameters like ADSR filters, and stuff like that. But you can\'t get in and actually edit the samples.

    As for GPO and QLSO - I\'m guessing we can edit them. I know we can load them into Kontakt, so I\'m presuming once loaded we could edit if we wanted to????

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Vocaloid--END USER access to font/library development tools

    Nope, you can\'t. Any of the new monolithic \"Kompakt\" formats are totally locked off. You can use the nondestructive parameters within Kontakt to make changes that are done with realtime DSP, but not changes to the underlying waveforms. Nor can you combine those underlying waveforms with other libraries\' material in wave editing software to create hybrids. This was once enjoyed as common practice until sample distributors decided they knew better than the end user how to leverage the tools.

    At any rate, voting with your dollars is the way to keep the money changers from taking over the temple. Support those that support open, portable, editable formats, and you will be supporting the freedom to use content where you like.

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