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Topic: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

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  1. #1

    Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    There\'s been some recent discussions about \"what makes orchestral mockups sound good\" and I still really believe it has mostly to do with composition and orchestration and balancing than anything else. To give an example I\'ll post a mockup of part of the Star Wars \"Across the Stars\" love theme I did some time ago. No expression whatsoever was allowed: no volume changes, no x-fading sample programs. Everything you hear is velocity switched.

    http://www.simonravn.com/media/AOTC.mp3

    Of course this could be improved quite a bit with expression and using x-fading programs, EQ\'ing and paying more attention to reverb - also I think I left out most of the woodwinds because I couldn\'t figure out what they were doing in the tutti

    Anyway, I think it still has an impact on the listener and still sounds, if not good, then at least decent in this very rough state.

    Another example here:

    http://www.simonravn.com/media/EOTS-ALT-ref.mp3

    from Empire of the Sun

  2. #2

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    They are really nice [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] . Whitch library did you use for them???... I must agree with you Simon , and add one more thing - working with \"envelope\" is very important too. I usually think carefully each note how real player would play , and it always take me to the same thing - envelope. It happen mainly with slow tempos when we can clearly hear the difference in attack , release etc...

  3. #3

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    I allways belived that it\'s all about orchestration and balance..

    Your AOTC shows this so good... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I said this here a year ago or so...try loading any JW midi file and play it with cheapest midi sounds...samples are crap but still sounds kind of good, \'cause orchestration is superb..

    Now ,my balance between sections is allways bad..not tottaly wrong, but not satisfactory either..I know dynamic ranges of sections and all...but still I allways mess it up...
    Any general guidelines?

    Do you set up a huge template, where you set the general volume per chanel?
    I know Thomas_J said he does that..

    Oh..and where do the strings come from on this AOTC?

    Alex

  4. #4

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    I am still working on my template) Incorporating new libraries like EWQLSO etc takes some time and tweaking. But even then, I dont have a setup that is balanced. I always have to fiddle with volumes every time I introduce a new patch into a cue. Don\'t know if there\'s a way around this somehow... would be nice, but since not all libraries are programmed the same way regarding dynamics etc. it might require a lot of tweaking.

    As for samples used here, all strings are Sonic Implants, brass is Dan Dean and woods are Miroslav, possibly some AO. That oboe is still rather nice

    Another example. Much tougher one, and the strings are really suffering here... http://www.simonravn.com/media/HP-ref.mp3

    (sorry about the wrong trumpet note at the end btw)

  5. #5

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    Originally posted by chocothrax:
    The first link is just a rough sketch of \"the traveller\" right? Bwahahaha.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You got it!!

  6. #6

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
    </font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by chocothrax:
    The first link is just a rough sketch of \"the traveller\" right? Bwahahaha.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You got it!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yes , I found it strange. I had my Star Wars CDS in front of me while I was listening... WOW , these Dan Dean horns are sounding really great on your hand.

  7. #7

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    Hi Simon,

    Although it\'s too late for me, you\'ve just rescued some poor beginner from lots of time, anguish, and confusion regarding where the focus needs to be with respect to achieving good productions. It took me a few years to finally come to the realization that it really is all about compositon, orchestration, and simple volume levels.

    Thanks for taking the time to provide these effective learning examples.

    One question please. Can you explain your definition of the technique \"cross-fading\".

  8. #8

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    Yup, thats the way I work also...set volumes as I go...so it\'s down to who has better ears..hehehe..makes sence..

    Is there any kind of general rule measured in \"db\"? Like if I set up a tutti, all in fff and then balance them out like that?

    Alex

  9. #9

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    > \"One question please. Can you explain your definition of the technique \"cross-fading\".\"

    Cross fading is where the volume of one signal is reduced, while the volume of another signal is increased over time. If done right you get a seamless blend from one signal to another.

    This can be done with most any signal: sample to sample, audio clip to clip, video clip to clip - even hot water to cold water. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It can be done slowly for an artistic effect, or quickly - just enough to keep from having a harsh or clicky/poppy transition.

  10. #10

    Re: Mockups: mixing or orchestration - small case study:)

    One question please. Can you explain your definition of the technique \"cross-fading\".
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Also, if you have the example video clip from Dave Govett\'s Giga Mastery Tutorial, he demonstrates a crossfade across violin samples from quiet to loud.

    Good thread Simon.

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