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Topic: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

  1. #1

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] WOW

  2. #2

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    \"a free, open source professional grade software sampler that runs on Linux. It is developed by an international (no-profit) team of open source developers..\"

    Would any serious developer get involved with a project that has no income generating model? Talk about being afraid the \"company\" is going to go belly up!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Orcas Island

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    Originally posted by sbenno:
    I tell you that one of the well known sample library producer on this forum already contacted us and wants to collaborate with us making his material available on the Linux platform.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">When I first heard about the LinuxSampler project some time ago, it was exciting to learn about the possibilities. I have since been interested in collaborating with Benno to bring our orchestral sounds to the LinuxSampler. I urge other sample developers to consider this open platform alternative. I think this is incredible technology will have a powewrful impact on the world of sampling. Benno and the LinuxSampler team are to be commended for their initiative.

    Gary Garritan

  4. #4

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    sounds interesting - I\'ll drop by...

  5. #5

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    Finally!!! I\'m not a sampleware developer, but I\'d be happy to test some GigaStudio libraries in LinuxSampler.

    I do have one comment for you. When I tried to compile LinuxSampler on my Red Hat 9 box, \"configure\" complained that ALSA (Advanced Linux Sound Architecture) was not installed. I\'ve downloaded the driver and library source files from www.alsa-project.org and am currently building them for my sound card (es1371). You may want to mention this on your download page.

    Many thanks!


  6. #6

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    I have no time right now to check your README and FAQ files but just enough to post this error message:

    # linuxsampler --gig /usr/local/samples/G-Town_Church_Toms_8-vel_layer.gig
    Initializing audio output...Warning: your soundcard doesn\'t support chosen hardware parameters; trying to compensate support lack with plughw...Error opening PCM device plughw:0,0: No such file or directory

    Does this immediately ring a bell? If not, I\'ll figure out how to create the plughw device file during my lunch break.


  7. #7

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    Hello Benno,

    Very impressive indeed. Congratulations!!!

    I won\'t be able to attend NAMM, so I\'ll just drop the question that concerns me now:

    Will you consider implementing optional copy protection functionality for sample libraries in the application?

    Hans Adamson
    Art Vista Productions

  8. #8

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    keytar wrote \"Would any serious developer get involved with a project that has no income generating model? Talk about being afraid the \"company\" is going to go belly up! ...\"

    I can understand your concerns but by applying your logic to the Linux OS, Linux should never have beeen succeeded. The fact is that the open source model actually works.
    Often even with opensource software revenue can be generated eg by selling services, giving support or building hardware devices that are powered by open source software.
    But keep in mind that the survival of an open source project does not depend from the fact if there is money to be made or not.
    As long as there is a developer and user community supporting it it will survive. It can even go into hybernation for a year without damage, the sourcecode will still out in the public, available to anyone to grab it, study it improve it and let it evolve.

    So you say \"serious\" developers would not partecipate to a project like LinuxSampler because there is no money to be made ?
    Perhaps but the truth is quite different.
    The fact is that no one of us works fulltime on LinuxSampler but if you sum up a couple of hours a day multiplied with a dozen developers you get quite some \"man-hours\" of work done.
    The developer community in opensource projects has a wide spectrum: for example we have Computer Science students with lots of spare time. In LinuxSampler we have a person that teaches DSP and audio at an univeristy and helps us out when he has some spare time (accademics have a lot :-) ), then we have sysadmins with the passion of audio that contribute code for us during work hours because sysadmins usually only need to babysitting servers and get bored over time so they have to do something creative since servers are very reliable these days so most of time \"you don\'t need to work\". I stop here because I don\'t want to teach you about opensource models, why they work etc.
    read this for more information: http://www.opensource.org/advocacy/faq.php

    Since we are not a \"company\" we are not forced to respect shipping dates, advertised features etc.
    You know what happens when the marketing promises something while the development staff is not there yet. (bugs, unstable software, incomplete features etc for a software you paid lots of $$).
    Ok sometimes opensource software advances slowly and takes years to mature and to provide decent features which is frustrating for users. But as long as there is interest in a project it will advance.
    Speaking frankly, writing a software sampler is not that hard. It\'s just reading source sample material (from RAM or disk), changing the pitch, applying envelopes, modulators and other FXes.
    The problem on Windows is you spend lot of time with getting rid of latency and efficiency problems, plus opensource developers are usually not very motivated to develop on Windows because the OS is closed by nature, hindering their creativity.

    Of course we cannot promise features ABC in exactly 2 months. Perhaps it will take 4 months perhaps even longer but as long as its user/developer community are interested in those features they will get implemented. And usually as the project keeps growing (more developers/users joining the project ... usually simply means subscribing to a mailing list)

    PatS (and others) if you have problems while experimenting with LinuxSampler please don\'t post them here. Almost no LinuxSampler developers are reading this forum so the chance to get help is low plus you probably annoy northernsounds members because they want to talk about general sampling topics and not low level technical problems.
    The best way to get help is to subscribe to our mailing list, the traffic is low (usually only 2-3msg/day) and the chance to get your problems solved within short time is very high.
    So PatS please repost your questions on our mailinglist.

    For developers and hardcore users a mailing list is ok, but we are still not sure if we should provide a regular forum on the linuxsampler.org site too so that other folks can contribute to discussions too.
    What would be more handy for the typical northernsounds user that would contribute with suggestions on the linuxsampler site ? mailing list or forum ? I guess a forum would be prefered.

    Looking forward to meet Gary Garritan, the SCARBEE team and others !

    Hans: about copy protection, the fact is that with opensource applications it is even harder to make CP work because users can inspect the application code how the sampler reads and unscrambles the data.

    Even with proprietary apps, skilled hackers can inspect the binary executable and look at the sections that implement CP and then crack the software by removing or altering these sections.
    The fact is pure software based copy protection schemes do not work because the application itself contains the recipe how unscramble the data.
    So what are the alternatives ? encryption of samples and/or hardware assisted copyprotection.
    For example one could ship encryped a samplelibraries and then supply users with individual keys. But it has the drawback that real time decryption is very time consuming and even with encryption the user could use his own key to decrypt the sample and produce an unencrypted one that he can post on P2P networks without leaving traces of his key.
    Or there is digital watermarking, it might work but you would have to watermark each single copy with different marks and that would be an expensive affair for the sample producer.
    Not to mention that watermarks degrade audio quality and are not immune to attacks (with the appropriate algorithms you can often remove them).

    Hardware assisted CP: this is the most reliable form of CP but as you can read on this forum its a mess for users (how wants to install 20 dongles ?) and often if you choose to protect your samples with dongles you need to go the \"bundled player\" route, possibly using a non-open sampling format to avoid users copying your sample and using it in standalone sampling apps.

    Add the fact that honest paying users strongly dislike CP schemes because it causes so much troubles hindering the use of the samples on different sampling apps, then you will see that it would not be in LinuxSampler\'s interest to support it.
    Piracy is always a problem but I think it\'s a fact humans have to live it.
    After all with Windows and Office being probably amongst the most pirated pieces of software, Microsoft is still one of the richest companies of the planet.

    I don\'t know how to solve the piracy problem I understand it\'s frustrating for content producers but no one has found the perfect solution yet (that makes both content producers and honest paying users happy).

    I mostly share the thoughts of Bruce A.R. when it comes to CP: current CP schemes do not bring real benefits while they piss off honest customers.


  9. #9

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    Thanks Benno,

    You are a sincere guy, and it is an admirable task your team is taking on creating this sample player. I am sure of your success in the long run, like you say, because no money is at stake. If only sample libraries could be produced the same way, where a bunch of people could put in some spare time for free at their leisure, to produce an outstanding product, just for the heck of it...

    Good Luck!
    Hans Adamson
    Art Vista Productions

  10. #10

    Re: LinuxSampler seeks collaboration with sample library producers

    I think this is groundshaking news! Thumbs up, Benno! Indeed an interesting (and cheap!) alternative to the current tendency to bundle (and lock) sample \"content\" with playback software.

    I can also appreciate the \"pattern\" that Linux allows: boot from floppy or CD to make a PC a router, or in your explanation: a sampler! [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

    I wish you many interesting discussions as Namm!

    BTW: how did you get access to the exact file format specifications for .Gig files? Is that now in the public domain? If so, I\'m interested in it too! Or did you have to reverse-engineer it? (I know it\'s a variation on a common file format).

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