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Topic: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

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  1. #1

    Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    This sounds great! In a year or so I will definitly be trying this out. What does everyone else think?

    http://musicforthemedia.protectedsite.net/mftmv2/The_course/Overview.htm

    In another thread someome was wanting movies with raw sound, with the soundtrack taken off. Well they give you lots of movies with this in the course apparently!

    Ed

  2. #2

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    So no one has any opinion at all?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    Hmmmm...no need to read music---earn a diploma in music composition.

  4. #4

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    yes, just seems to be a sign of the times ... hopefully, places like this do not become a trend ... look at what \'schools\' like FullSail have done to the industry .. my oh my!

    hahaha, and yes ... saying one does not need to read music in order to recieve a \'diploma\' is like saying ... you can get a degree as a chef, no taste buds required ... errr, something like that [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    great composers (before the technological age and some still today) learned the majority of their craft by HAND COPYING complete scores of the greats that came before them .... i myself have spent alot of time doing the same. besides teaching you about instrumentation, etc .... you can actually get inside the head of the composer and see the guts laid out right infront of you.

    Ed, your best bet is either ..... go through a university program (part time is better than none) or seek out a wealth of information/books and find a good mentor/teacher to help guide you through it. And .... go get a copy of you favorite orchestral piece (the score) and a ton of scoring paper and copy the bloody thing ...OF COURSE analyzing each and every measure as if you were the one writing the score .... sit at the piano, play through certain parts that you may not be able to hear in your head .... and of course listen to a recording and follow the score throughout the process. and if you are schooled in harmonic theory .... do chord analysis for the entire thing [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    passacaglia

  5. #5

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    With all due respect, there seems to be a bit of a haughty attiude being put forth about reading music and having a strong theory background. While no one in their right mind would ever knock these attributes, in the end, it is all about the music and whether it is right for the film, not how much theory you know or how well you read.

    John Carpenter can hardly play but his music has affected his films greatly, and for all he intricacies and beauty of Williams great score to \"Jaws,\" after all, the most memorable and effective section of the film consists of two notes.

    Danny Elfman needed help, Mike Post needed help, Lennon and McCartney couldn\'t read. Though I have no idea of the merits of this course ( I haven\'t even read the link), I do think that it is important to remember that in the end only the music counts, and there are plenty of well schooled composers whose music is completely forgettable, and many not as well schooled who have done wonders within their own limitations, do to an innate sense of knowing what is right for a scene or sequence. JMHO....

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    Haughty attitude...hmmm.

    I don\'t disagree that people do great work without formal schooling. But if the question is one of choosing the best investment for education dollars as a composer, then the choice would be music school hands down. These \"trade schools\" for artists are generally just a structured series of master classes. If you don\'t walk in happening, you\'re not likely to walk out happening.

    I\'d encourage anyone who wants a career as a musician to go to music school, at least for a four-year degree. You learn a lot more than theory. You learn to play all the families of instruments. You learn to play in ensembles. You learn the basics of theory, harmony, and counterpoint. You learn conducting. You learn piano. You learn the literature and the historical progression of our art. You learn the cultural significance and lineage of styles. Most good schools will force you into some sort of improvisational training, to increase your ability to compose in real time. In any decent school, you\'ll have to be professionally viable in some aspect of music performance before you\'ll get out with a degree.

    These are good things. Raw talent is excellent. But investment in that talent WILL make you a better artist. Knowledge of theory gives you a basis for experimentation when you\'re \"stuck.\" Same with improvisational skill. Conducting is one of the most valuable skills you can have, and playing in music school ensembles gives you a rehearsal technique skillset that makes you look GOOD in recording sessions. Being forced to play all the instrument classes teaches you how to orchestrate better for those instruments. It teaches you tricks to make sampling sound a lot more realistic if that\'s your bag. Learning the literature and history gives you a frame of reference for your own work, and keeps you from repeating what\'s already been done. A broad foundation in music, most of all, gives you depth as an artist and as a member of a tradition as old as mankind. You can hold your own in artistic conversation--a BIG deal if your potential client knows his stuff and wants to see if YOU know your stuff.

    So is that haughty? No. I am just 100% committed to encouraging future composers to pursue a music education. I know for a fact, I wouldn\'t have a career right now if I hadn\'t put in my time in music school. If you intend to be a musician, it\'s the best investment you can make in your future. Yes, you can make it without an education. But for a given amount of talent, the person who has made that investment in himself will have a much better chance to sustain a lasting career.

  7. #7

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    Very well said Bruce:

    Not to mention ..... the inspiration you attain while you\'re in school ---- the experience can open so many doors in your mind .... OH and not to mention the myriad of \'good times\' you have access to [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] more inspiration!

    Someone mentioned Elfan\'s handicap -- well, he had to fill the hole with Bartek. Lennon/McCartney -- they needed the classism of Sir George to make all their \'Love Me Do\'s\' turn into \'Day in the Life\'s\'. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    And the trick-bag ::: with a proper education in music you aquire a crafty trick-bag. When in a crunch, inspiration river is dry, and your magic ears are deaf ..... to can \'borrow\' from the greats .... bridge the gaps between creativity spurts.

    Without such knowledge, do you think folks like J Williams reach for the magic Chromatic Mediant (ala Swan Lake Intro) in NUMEROUS dramatic themes .... well .... maybe he just \'heard it\' -- but i suspect he spent some time with the Swan Lake score [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    passacaglia

  8. #8

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    Originally posted by passacaglia:
    Very well said Bruce:

    \"Someone mentioned Elfan\'s handicap -- well, he had to fill the hole with Bartek. Lennon/McCartney -- they needed the classism of Sir George to make all their \'Love Me Do\'s\' turn into \'Day in the Life\'s\'. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] \"

    Actually, their \"Love Me Do\" songs turned into \"Day In The Life\" because they grew as composers. Martin helped them write down their visions when they needed that. He didn\'t compose for them (it was their idea, not Martins, for the orchestral \"Day In The Life\" sequence, for instance). Etc. Martin\'s contributions were on the production side, not the compositional side, which is what we are addressing. Of course, we can\'t all be geniuses, so again, college can sure help here.

    \"And the trick-bag ::: with a proper education in music you aquire a crafty trick-bag. When in a crunch, inspiration river is dry, and your magic ears are deaf ..... to can \'borrow\' from the greats .... bridge the gaps between creativity spurts. \"

    Without such knowledge, do you think folks like J Williams reach for the magic Chromatic Mediant (ala Swan Lake Intro) in NUMEROUS dramatic themes .... well .... maybe he just \'heard it\' -- but i suspect he spent some time with the Swan Lake score [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    passacaglia
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">\"

    Not to be obstinate here, but in truth you learn most of those tricks from studying scores, not spending hours studying figured bass. I went to college, studied music, and had two different music professors tell me to go study scores if I wanted to learn \"that kind of thing\" ( I had just played them a John Williams cue) and take modern arranging lessons, privately. So I did.

    My point was that there are other ways to gain that knowledge, especially on a practical level, for those who do not have the financial or time resources for a college degree. In the end, the picture is boss, and it doesn\'t care what your degree is. To imply that there is only one way, or a best way, to learn your craft is exactly the kind of tunnelvision I was talking about in the first place. Obviously those who have spent the time and money to attain a music degree are protective and proud of their achievements. I am, I know. I did both. Got the academic side, and the practical side. But I can tell you that doing sessions with top players, studying scores, and having \"on the job\" experience helped me more than any theory class I ever took. JMHO, and again, not knocking college.

  9. #9

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    Originally posted by passacaglia:
    Very well said Bruce:

    \"Someone mentioned Elfan\'s handicap -- well, he had to fill the hole with Bartek. Lennon/McCartney -- they needed the classism of Sir George to make all their \'Love Me Do\'s\' turn into \'Day in the Life\'s\'. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] \"

    Actually, their \"Love Me Do\" songs turned into \"Day In The Life\" because they grew as composers. Martin helped them write down their visions when they needed that. He didn\'t compose for them (it was their idea, not Martins, for the orchestral \"Day In The Life\" sequence, for instance). Etc. Martin\'s contributions were on the production side, not the compositional side, which is what we are addressing. Of course, we can\'t all be geniuses, so again, college can sure help here.

    \"And the trick-bag ::: with a proper education in music you aquire a crafty trick-bag. When in a crunch, inspiration river is dry, and your magic ears are deaf ..... to can \'borrow\' from the greats .... bridge the gaps between creativity spurts. \"

    Without such knowledge, do you think folks like J Williams reach for the magic Chromatic Mediant (ala Swan Lake Intro) in NUMEROUS dramatic themes .... well .... maybe he just \'heard it\' -- but i suspect he spent some time with the Swan Lake score [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    passacaglia
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">\"

    Not to be obstinate here, but in truth you learn most of those tricks from studying scores, not spending hours studying figured bass. I went to college, studied music, and had two different music professors tell me to go study scores if I wanted to learn \"that kind of thing\" ( I had just played them a John Williams cue) and take modern arranging lessons, privately. So I did.

    My point was that there are other ways to gain that knowledge, especially on a practical level, for those who do not have the financial or time resources for a college degree. In the end, the picture is boss, and it doesn\'t care what your degree is. To imply that there is only one way, or a best way, to learn your craft is exactly the kind of tunnelvision I was talking about in the first place. Obviously those who have spent the time and money to attain a music degree are protective and proud of their achievements. I am, I know. I did both. Got the academic side, and the practical side. But I can tell you that doing sessions with top players, studying scores, and having \"on the job\" experience helped me more than any theory class I ever took. JMHO, and again, not knocking college.

  10. #10

    Re: Music For the Media - Film Music Course.

    It seems to me people are missing the point of the course. I\'ve read all the literature on it and even have a friend who is taking the course and it really just focuses on providing composers (or even would be composers) with the opportunity to write music for a wide range of media (from Corporate Video to Film).

    I think it\'s invaluable to any media composer to be able to practice writing to picture. I know many of us have re-scored parts of films and television shows to help us grow and develop our writing to picture skills. So from that perspective I think this course could be very helpful to those just starting out in the business. The more practice we get the better IMHO.

    I for one would have loved to have been able to try my hand at so many different media types with a tutor to critic my work. Having said all that, I would agree however that if you are still a complete novice in the music writing department you might want to wait a bit on this course. At least until you have the fundamentals of music in your toolbox.

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