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Topic: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

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  1. #1
    Senior Member mahlon's Avatar
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    Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    Hi,

    I have used GigaSampler for a few projects alongside 3 E-mu 6400\'s (128RAM each). I still use the E-mu\'s but have upgraded my GigaSampler to Gigastudio; but I haven\'t had a project come through where I\'ve needed to use Gigastudio extensively yet.

    I\'ve been thinking lately, though, about the possibility of selling the E-6400\'s and switching over completely to a multiple Gigastudio setup. The reason being that I like the file system organization and the speed of the GS program-- and, of course, the unlimited file size for samples. Right now, there\'s only one library which I use exclusively on the E-mu\'s and that\'s the Kurt Hunter Strings. So basically, that\'s the main reason I\'ve kept the E-mu\'s around--just for those strings. But now, with the hope of new sample converters making it possible to convert the Kirk Hunter strings to GS, I\'m not sure I should keep the E-mu\'s anymore.


    So, I guess my question is:

    to those of you who use Gigastudio on a daily studio basis (preferably those of you doing orchestral work), could you recommend giving up the E-mu\'s and going totally Gigasampler? Is it capable in large orchestral situations where you have 50 to 70 tracks of instruments patch-switching all over the place? I mostly do these kinds of things where you\'ve got an ungodly number of samples and instruments.

    I hestitate to sell the e-mu\'s because they are so trustworthy, but I\'m getting tired of the slowness and the file saving out to JAZ disk (JAZ disks and drives which I hate, hate, hate) and the 128 Meg limitation and the generally older architecture of the machines.

    My inclination is that Gigastudio is mature enough to handle this well(especially multiple Gigastudios), and I guess the best way to determine this is to do a large project solely on Gigastudio and see. Still, I\'d like to hear some battlefield opinions on this if you have any.

    Mahlon Bouldin

  2. #2

    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    The 3 emus\' advantage is that their core OS never had anything to do with Bill Gates.
    That\'s a hard one to get around.

    With 3xEmus you get a lot more guaranteed polyphony than the one Gigastudio.

    If you are able to find someone who can guarantee setting up a low latency 160 polyphony capable PC for Giga, I\'d consider it - but make sure the guy GUARANTEES it. I haven\'t read a post yet from someone who went out and bought a PC and a soundcard and ran Gigastudio without needing to do a lot of (and this is an understatement) \'tweaking\'.

    Also, if you are doing lots of jobs where you have to alter a patch\'s envelope slightly from the last use, and need to save that version, ask around about wasted disk space.

    I\'ve got large HDs and am enjoying the file management BUT I\'m concerned that every time I do a job and have to save my favourite patches with a slightly different envelope, Gigastudio uses up a whole new set of hard disk real estate - it saves all the samples to the new patch as well! My old Roland and EmuIIs didn\'t even do that. It may seem petty, but with the size of the sounds that are coming out for giga, I figure I\'ll end up in the same old situation of being short of disk space (which I also hate, hate, hate...)

  3. #3

    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    I totally agree with you Chadwick on the size of sample libraries taking up so much space. I hate that too! I started with a 30 gig drive (just for audio, and an 8 gig for programs) and I\'ve loaded \"Symphony of Voices\", the new \"Ethno World\" and the Xsample volume 9 percussion library into Gigastudio and my drive space on my 30 gig is already down to 19 gigs! I really wish I had an 80 gig hard drive now! \"Symphony of Voices\" is a monster! It took up like 4 gigs and I didn\'t even load in the \'Pop Stacks\' CD into Giga.
    As for getting rid of your hardware samplers, that\'s a tough call right now. It\'s something you have to really decide. Personally I love Gigastudio now that I\'ve gotten most of the small kinks worked out with it, but I still think it has a little ways to go before being completely trustworthy of acheiving full polyphony which will be worked out I\'m sure.
    As for speed, you really can\'t match it. It loads sounds in seconds! My 1 gig piano loads in like 5 seconds. Giga works great with my sequencer-Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, but I do have a hard time trying to get a good natural feel on lightly quantizing my ethnic instruments:-(
    I\'m pro-Giga myself(whoa, that sounded cheesy) and I think it is definitely the future of sampling. Just be sure you get a fast computer and good soundcard(Delta 1010 recommended IMO) that is GSIF compatible and multi-cliented. 2 hard drives is highly recommended also. One for programs and a huge one for audio(Gigafiles).
    I still can\'t wait till they have 2 gigahertz computers with 160 gig hard drive! That will be the sh-t!!

  4. #4

    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....


    Hmm.. I\'m here kinda scratching my head over how you guys are managing to eat up 10-20 gigs with samples. I routingly use all of the main samples from Miroslav (all discs), AO (all discs except #1), Symphony of Voices (discs 1-3), Ultimate Strings, Heart of Asia, Heart of Africa, Kirk Hunter, etc... I\'ve just looked at my main sample directory and it totals 2.1 gigabytes. Obviously if you load every single patch from SOV alone you would exceed this but why would you want to convert everything? Many of the samples on that library have multiple redundent versions (Version A -> B -> C) in which case each successive version is of lower quality (mainly for hardware samplers)
    My usual setup involves around 50-64 .gig samples loaded at any time totaling around 700-900 mbytes (excluding Piano and depending on complexity of score) I can remeber when I first started using Gigasampler my sample directory was around 6 to 8 gigabytes in size. It was unecessarily bloated which made it harder to find and locate samples not to mention all of the wasted disc space, fragmentation, etc..

    Chadwick:
    If you alter any of the patch settigns and you decide to save the entire .gig file under a different name then obviously the sample will take up x2 the space. Now, if you make a major adjustment with your giga file and you want to be able to still keep the old settings you can have multiple instruments within the same .gig file. Both instruments will utilize the same waveforms (no 2x space needed) and at the same time the patch settings would be different between the two.
    I usually keep my set of main samples the same (envelopes/filters/etc) between projects , altering them only slightly during sequencing. If there is a need to change a .gig file in a substantial way I either save a new version or create multiple instruments within the same file.

    Regards,
    F. Juma.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    > Hmm.. I\'m here kinda scratching my head

    Me too. I have GSt set up on a dedicated machine, and have not had to do any particular tweaking. Multiple GSt’s should be good. Keep your sequencer and Digital Audio software on a separate machine. Network it all with 100BaseT. To me, SCSI is worth the extra cost.

    Besides Gulliver’s suggestion for saving instrument variation in the same gig file, I’d also point out that GSt can save “Articulation” files; just the programming changes.

  6. #6
    Senior Member mahlon's Avatar
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    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    Thanks for the replies about this. If I did give up the e-mu\'s, the new setup would be:
    (2) 733 Mghz Computers with 512 megs of RAM each running 2 GStudios. Both computers have separate hard drives for os and GSampler files. One system is a LVD SCSI setup. So it seems like this should be able to handle quite a bit.

    Right now, (3 emus and 1 Gigstudio) my total midi channels come out to 112 and my total voice capability is theoretically around 350 voices. As has been pointed out, the emu\'s are sure of getting 64 voices each, which is a nice thing.

    Under the new system I would have, theortically, 128 midi channels, and about 300 voices.

    If I could get the performance to reach this out of 2 GStudios and they worked well pushed to that limit, I\'d really consider selling the hardware samplers. It\'s giving up a few voices for the size of loadable samplers in GS. Plus, gain some midi channels, which I always seem to run out of.

    Anymore opinions out there from people who use GStudio and hardware samplers professionally?

    Thanks again,
    Mahlon Bouldin

  7. #7

    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    If you are going to build a PC or two, wait at least until November. AMD is going to have a major price cut (ie a thunderbird anthlon 950 for about $250) which in turn will trigger Intel price cuts. By January DDR ram and the motherboards to support it should be out in the supply chain. Many overclocking sites have tested DDR ram and it give a 15% to 20% increase in benchmark results and it will cost just about the same as current SDRAM. If you can wait three months before you build, you will definately get more bang for about the same bucks.

  8. #8

    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    Gulliver,

    Would you mind explaining how you make a multiple .gig file? I\'m not too clear on this, but I need to start using it.

    Damon,

    Gulliver\'s right about Akai disks having multiple redudnat patches.
    The way most converters work, if you have a volume which has ten patches using the same set of samples, but with different tunings, the converter will convert the samples once for EACH patch - so you use ten times the memory.

    Have a look through your .gig directories and compare patches. You may find many redundant patches which use the same samples, but have different keyboard layouts (say from super mutli sampled vox to just two or three samples across the keyboard), or maybe even just different octaves. I\'d bet each new patch which is converted has cost hard disk space, even though the samples are identical.

  9. #9
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    About the sound quality:
    Just thinking about the way to handle the sub-mixes (output channels) in the mixdown process with two-Gigastudio. I\'ve never had more than 40 tracks in same audio/MIDI sequencer...It would be a good practical to see how much power (max) you can put on for each PCs like No. of Giga\'s voice-polyphony with/without the NFX or other FX-plug-ins before to replicate the 2nd PC. Now I understood that why the people kept saying, \"please included the reverberation in the samplers\". This\'s explained how easy to deal with, Of course in the orchestral music world you might dedicate about four-five or more different reverb-effect-processors for each type of tracks to avoid the possibilities \"harmonic sound degradations”.

    Maybe I would have two PCs in different performance:
    (1) 500Mhz-320MB and (2) 1Ghz-768MB, the (2) is master to handle audio-MIDI sub-mixing. The soundcards (mixing cards) are also very important, I would have them about 16~24-I/O (ADAT) for in case I could have any expansions like outboard mixing or multiple external effect-processors. Why? To my taste, the NFX or most of soft FX-plug-in are not best sounding when you have many tracks in your audio and MIDI sequencer (more than 30 tracks).
    Good lucks,
    LHong



    [This message has been edited by LHong (edited 10-10-2000).]

  10. #10

    Re: Need Opinions from Professional GStudio Users....

    Gulliver,
    Would you mind explaining how you make a multiple .gig file? I\'m not too clear on this, but I need to start using it.


    It\'s very simple actually. Under the Instrument Window just right click, Copy the instrument you want to duplicate and then paste it as a new one and rename. I would also look into \'articulation\' just as someone suggested above. I have not had a chance to delve into this feature but I will soon enough.

    Regards,
    Gulliver.

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