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Topic: Volume in Logic Pro X

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  1. #1

    Volume in Logic Pro X

    Hi everybody,

    I'm new to Logic Pro X (and to any DAW actually), and I can't find a way to keep the volume of a midi imported piece steady. That means:

    I would want to have per track a fixed volume, so that I can use the volume slider of the mixer to mix the instruments to the general output. Now, the sliders keep moving with the expression. That makes it impossible to mix down the whole set of tracks.

    The internal dynamic variations should be done by 'expression' and velocity settings (on note-to-note basis). I have a lane with the volume, but it displays all these variations (movements of the slider) per track.

    The score was midi exported from Finale and midi imported in Logic Pro X. In Finale, I neutralised all parameters (pan, FX, reverb...) before exporting to midi, but somehow, volume was kept and tied to the dynamic changes in the score.

    Can I delete the volume lane in Logic and rebuild it the way I want it? How should I do that?

    Max

  2. #2

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    You can copy volume data from this lane to expression lane, then delete the former and re-write it according to your needs.
    Sorry, no Logic at hand, but I will try make screenshots from another DAW — process is the same.
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  3. #3
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    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    I'm still using Logic 9, but you could easily take the eraser tool and erase the volume info or draw it in at a level starting point.

  4. #4

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    Quote Originally Posted by fabiolcati View Post
    You can copy volume data from this lane to expression lane, then delete the former and re-write it according to your needs...
    So this means that all of Max's volume control was being done with CC7 instead of 1 or 11, the way it should be. Why is that, Fabio? Your solution is, as you're saying, true for all DAW programs - If you want the data for one controller to instead be assigned to a different controller, you simply cut and paste it into the lane you want.

    But why, when Garritan expressive volume control is used for performance volume (1 or 11), and CC7 is meant only for the mixer sliders, - why is the exported MIDI file not coming out right?

    I tried to get a better idea of what's happening, and looked at this MM page:

    Garritan & Human Playback>Controllers

    As per the Tip below, I guess Max doesn't have the HP options set up the way they should be for Garritan?

    From the above site:

    "Tip: For expressions that modify MIDI volume to affect playback with Human Playback turned on, you must ensure that Human Playback is set to incorporate MIDI data."

    And, Max, as this implies - The volume sliders jumping up and down as you described is because those controllers in Logic are controlled by CC7, as they are in every DAW program I know of. As you said, you generally want those to be at one level throughout a project.

    My standard tip for this is to always use the Host program (Logic, in your case) to control the sliders in ARIA, because they take precedent. If you set your sliders in ARIA, they'll jump into a different position as soon as you start playback - because whatever settings are in your recording program will take over.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner View Post
    I'm still using Logic 9, but you could easily take the eraser tool and erase the volume info or draw it in at a level starting point.
    ---But it's instrument volume data which has been incorrectly assigned to CC7--You wouldn't want to erase it. Once it's pasted into the proper lane (1 or 11) - it's probably going to be very useful volume data, as per the dynamics in the score. Why re-do work?

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    So this means that all of Max's volume control was being done with CC7 instead of 1 or 11, the way it should be. Why is that, Fabio? Your solution is, as you're saying, true for all DAW programs - If you want the data for one controller to instead be assigned to a different controller, you simply cut and paste it into the lane you want.

    But why, when Garritan expressive volume control is used for performance volume (1 or 11), and CC7 is meant only for the mixer sliders, - why is the exported MIDI file not coming out right?

    I tried to get a better idea of what's happening, and looked at this MM page:

    Garritan & Human Playback>Controllers

    As per the Tip below, I guess Max doesn't have the HP options set up the way they should be for Garritan?

    From the above site:

    "Tip: For expressions that modify MIDI volume to affect playback with Human Playback turned on, you must ensure that Human Playback is set to incorporate MIDI data."

    And, Max, as this implies - The volume sliders jumping up and down as you described is because those controllers in Logic are controlled by CC7, as they are in every DAW program I know of. As you said, you generally want those to be at one level throughout a project.

    My standard tip for this is to always use the Host program (Logic, in your case) to control the sliders in ARIA, because they take precedent. If you set your sliders in ARIA, they'll jump into a different position as soon as you start playback - because whatever settings are in your recording program will take over.

    Randy
    Thank you Randy for your most interesting advice. But I did incorporate the midi dat in HP in Finale. Somehow, the double midi transfer messed things up.
    The sliders mustn't stay in place throughout the entire piece, but I would want them control the track's volume as I want while mixing. That's the only way to have some control over the dynamic mixing process. The expressions and velocities have already been set in the score. If the sliders only reflect these settings, they are pretty useless, aren't they?
    But again, I'm so new to working with a DAW, that I'm probably talking a lot of rubbish. And combining notation software with a DAW is not so obvious...

    And for a good understanding: I didn't use Garritan instruments nor ARIA. (All VSL)

    Max

  7. #7

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    I didn't use Garritan instruments nor ARIA. (All VSL)
    This makes things more challenging.
    I think it is time for Experienced VSL users like Fabio Vicentini to came in to help.
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  8. #8

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    Quote Originally Posted by fabiolcati View Post
    This makes things more challenging.
    I think it is time for Experienced VSL users like Fabio Vicentini to came in to help.
    This is probably the case, and it would be especially helpful if a fellow Log Pro X user sees your thread and can help you out.

    Meanwhile:

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hamburg View Post
    ...The sliders mustn't stay in place throughout the entire piece, but I would want them control the track's volume as I want while mixing. That's the only way to have some control over the dynamic mixing process. The expressions and velocities have already been set in the score. If the sliders only reflect these settings, they are pretty useless, aren't they?...
    Yes, indeed you need the track volume sliders to be available for mixing, and they need to be independent of the expressions and velocities of your MIDI tracks from the score. It wouldn't do at all for the sliders to only reflect that performance data, just as you said.

    To be sure, I just now looked up information about Logic Pro X, and wasn't surprised to see that its mixer sliders, the track volume sliders, are controlled just as they are in all DAW software. So even though I don't use Logic, this element is exactly as when working in Sonar.

    So, I'm reiterating what I already said in my earlier response:

    Those track volume sliders are controlled by MIDI Continuous Controller 7 - and that's true in all DAW programs. Since your sliders are jumping around out of control, it simply means that you have CC7 data in your project file. Finale uses it - but now you're in Logic where the results aren't what you want.

    This gets back to Jeff Turner's advice in post #3. At the time he posted, I suggested that it would be better to move the data to a different controller rather than erase it - But maybe what he's suggesting would be easier.

    BUT - All of what's going on in this project file will be clear to you, Max, if you start understanding how to use whatever Logic calls its Piano Roll View. That's the heart of MIDI for all DAW programs. You can have all data in a file displayed, and you can edit it. For this file you're working on, you would open it, and I guarantee you will see lots of CC7 data - that's what's making your sliders jump. As long as that data is in there, your sliders will be controlled by the data. So, either erase it as Jeff suggests, or look to see if you have proper instrument volume control in a CC11 Expression lane. If you have no data there, paste the CC7 into it. If you do - leave it, and erase the CC7.

    There's some incompatibility between what Finale is exporting and what Logic uses. The intricacies of that I can't unravel for you. All I know is you have CC7 data that is making it impossible to mix your music!

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    Thanks again, Randy, for helping me out of this mess.

    Code:
    HTML Code:
    BUT - All of what's going on in this project file will be clear to you, Max, if you start understanding how to use whatever Logic calls its Piano Roll View. That's the heart of MIDI for all DAW programs. You can have all data in a file displayed, and you can edit it. For this file you're working on, you would open it, and I guarantee you will see lots of CC7 data - that's what's making your sliders jump. As long as that data is in there, your sliders will be controlled by the data. So, either erase it as Jeff suggests, or look to see if you have proper instrument volume control in a CC11 Expression lane. If you have no data there, paste the CC7 into it. If you do - leave it, and erase the CC7.
    I begin to know how to edit in piano roll, but I don't se any CC in there, unless I op one or more lanes under the piano roll. They don't show however to which CC they're attached. I assume volume will be CC7 and expression is CC11 (as one could expect). I'll try do do exactly as you say. If it doesn't work, I can always discard the attempt.

    Thanks again.

    Max

  10. #10

    Re: Volume in Logic Pro X

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Hamburg View Post
    ...I begin to know how to edit in piano roll, but I don't se any CC in there...
    wow--that code you used for quoting me-I've never seen it before. If you just use the "Reply with quote" button at the lower right under a post, the usual quote code will automatically be inserted. What you used called for a lot of horizontal scrolling to read, and I couldn't make things out very well - very odd!

    Your new question made me go on a search for a bit more info. I watched two instructional videos as YouTube about using Logic's PRV - and I couldn't believe my eyes. All that was shown in both videos, was how to insert notes, raise and lower their velocities and their lengths. A few navigational tips, re-sizing the screen etc. But NO info on displaying or editing MIDI controllers!--- I've never seen such a thing.

    Well, I now know more than ever that Logic is a bit unusually constructed, certainly unlike the DAW programs I'm familiar with.

    But I found a Logic Forum with a conversation thread that should help. It does show how to work with MIDI CCs, with screenshots. Some of the posts won't be helpful, but you can see how they manage to get the various controllers and their lanes displayed.

    I think something that may throw you is that in the quest to make things as simple and supposedly intuitive as possible, Logic doesn't seem to show the user what the actual MIDI controller NUMBERS are - So you get choices like "Modulation"--well, it helps to know that Modulation is CC1. Expression is CC11. And so forth.

    Take a look - Pretty sure this will help:

    LPX Question about MIDI CC's in different views [SOLVED]


    Remember - CC7 "Volume" is currently making your audio faders jump around. Your goal is to either erase or reassign that data.

    Randy

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