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Topic: Anyone Here Using Reason?

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  1. #1

    Anyone Here Using Reason?

    I realize this is perhaps an odd forum to post the question, but actually I\'m wondering, the scheme of things, whether using Reason, and Gigasampler, would be enough to handle most projects. I spoke to one very successful producer who told me he got rid of virtually all of his synth hardware and now uses only Reason for loops, synth stuff, etc.

    I figure that with Giga for the real sounds, and Reason for the synth sounds, this might be a pretty nice setup. I have only used Giga for natural orchestral stuff, and have been using a 5080 for synth things, as well as Virus, and getting hip drum sounds (not real drum sounds, odd, filtered things and the like) has been a problem with my existing setup.

    So, I\'m just wondering what fellow composers out there think of Reasons power to take care of synth needs as an adjunct to Giga....

    thanks for any input...

  2. #2

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    I like Reason a lot. It has lots of great sounds due thanks to its fabulous synths and samplers, and it\'s easy to use. It also does not take up much CPU. The only negative aspects are that you may have to use its internal sequencer in order to trigger its sounds. Some people get used to it, I guess, but I never did (I\'m a Logic freak). It is possible to create a \'virtual\' connection with other sequencers using ReWire (a protocol made by the same company) but I\'m not sure if Gigastudio supports it... If you can get the two to communicate, it\'s money very well spent! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    I think that Reason is a great program. There are a couple of nice, but short, tutorials in Computer Musician, the latest of which explores the operation of the Malstrom GrainTable Synth.
    It\'s great to have oscillators that actually do not drift - and memory so that all that has to be done is load another file instead of repatching and tweaking everything. I know that I described the capability of just about every softsynth made, but seeing those patch cables in Reason really makes me realize how far we have come. The 2600 that I used about 25 years ago had an incredible sound, when it was functioning properly, but was always (at least for me)an accident waiting to happen.
    Jack

  4. #4

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    Back to your question though, I do not use Reason and GigaStudio simultaneously.
    Jack

  5. #5

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    Bruce, you may be right; I was immediately impressed with the sound of Absynth. Both Absynth and Reason are still very new to me and I have not had the time to explore these programs in detail.
    That being the case, I cannot honestly say which is best. Mr. Zimmer seems to be very interested in products from both companies. He recently expressed a strong interest in working more with the Malstrom synth of Reason 2.0. If you knew this already, my apologies.
    By the way, you have provided a great deal of valuable information on this forum. Let me take this opportunity to say thanks. Thanks.
    Jack

  6. #6

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    Thanks guys.

    A couple of things.

    First off, there is a lot of discussion on the Propellerheads forum about the SOUND of REASON not really be up to snuff, great as the program is otherwise. The answer to that seems to be not to do any mixing or processing in REASON, and to use REWIRE to get your audio out of REASON and into a true pro program for that.

    I have heard great things about the filters. And the other thing is this....I am hired to do a lot of covers of hit records. I have been less than impressed with my ability to get the drum sounds that one hears on many pop recordings today....not the REAL kits (for those I use Purfect Drums and REAL GIGA) but the oddball, filtered, weird stuff. Nothing in the 5080 really cuts it when I compare it to the records, and yet when I listened to some of the demos included with REASON that was WAY more like it. So it might worthwhile for me just to get those drum sounds, and some of the synth sounds. I do think my TDM version of VIRUS is much more impressive sounding that the synths on the REASON demo, but who knows. I\'m not a real synth guy so I\'m not really qualified to say.

    I am aware of the editor for the 5080 though I haven\'t played with it...might be interesting.

    But the thing is, I work on such deadlines that if say, I\'m doing a dance thing, or a hip hop type groove, I need to get that going FAST. I can\'t sit for hours and tweak. It seems like sequencing a loop in REASON with some of their hip kit sounds would be fast and just the answer, then record it into Pro Tools.

    The only thing is, without my 5080 ( if I sell it I \'ll get REASON and a couple other things for my studio I need), I would be in trouble for the things I use the 5080 for the most...which are...

    organ sounds, electric pianos, and some spacey voice sounds. Are there solutions for this via GIga samples?

    Thanks for all the help, as usual!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    Originally posted by tomhartman:
    Thanks guys.

    A couple of things.

    First off, there is a lot of discussion on the Propellerheads forum about the SOUND of REASON not really be up to snuff, great as the program is otherwise. The answer to that seems to be not to do any mixing or processing in REASON, and to use REWIRE to get your audio out of REASON and into a true pro program for that.

    <snip>

    The only thing is, without my 5080 ( if I sell it I \'ll get REASON and a couple other things for my studio I need), I would be in trouble for the things I use the 5080 for the most...which are...

    organ sounds, electric pianos, and some spacey voice sounds. Are there solutions for this via GIga samples?

    Thanks for all the help, as usual!
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">A couple of thoughts:

    First, I disagree completely with the notion that exporting tracks to a DAW for mixing would make the \"sound\" of Reason better. The root of the problem isn\'t the mixing but the synthesis models themselves. Their modeling technology is just not that deep...you\'re not going to get more personality into an oscillator or filter in post-processing. You\'ll only get that at the source.

    For instance, NI just updated their Pro-52 software (Prophet V emulator) to a new Pro-53 version, and they completely re-wrote the oscillator models. What was already an amazing simulation is just ridiculous now. I dare anyone to discern the difference, right down to the programmable oscillator drift, etc. It\'s just amazing, and the sound is flawless.

    But you\'re going to pay a lot more money for that level of synthesis. Reason is not aimed at that particular market...it\'s a bargain for what it does, but it\'s a low-price, high-functionality tool that will necessarily compromose depth of synth modeling towards more features and lower CPU usage. There are tradeoffs in every design. Reason\'s tradeoffs are essentially quantity vs. quality. You get a LOT of different stuff, none of it particularly groundbreaking.

    That said, it\'s probably a good generator of basic rhythm tracks as you\'re stating, but then again, so are a lot of things. If you\'re not a \"synthesis guy\" then Reason may not automatically give you the results you seek. You\'ll still have to design your schemes, it may have some presets that are cool, but if you\'re trying to knock off very specific tracks, then you\'ll have to get down and dirty with filtering to do that. It won\'t just be \"load a preset and go.\"

    I\'m not trying to discourage you a bit, but simply reminding you that a LOT of options exist, and some are definitely more powerful than Reason.

    Kontakt is a great platform for percussion--the new Electronic Drums library for Battery/Kontakt is totally slamming, and inside Kontakt, you can customize and design automated filtering processes that just slam Reason completely in the dust. Then again, you\'re going to pay more money for it...but in this case, you\'d also be getting the flexibility of a plugin implementation, which is going to be more robust than a Rewire implementation...not to mention a VERY nice 3 GB library bundled with the app.

    So is letting go of the 5080 an either/or situation?

    My personal pics:

    Organ: NI B4. You cannot beat it. There are $2000+ hardware solutions that sound like dog crap compared to B4.

    Rhodes: My favorite giga-Rhodes is the \"slow Rhodes\" on Franz\'s VR Sound Giga Module disc. It\'s a three-layer, looped, down and dirty suitcase sample. All the others I\'ve heard are too clean--this one has enough hair on it to sit in a mix. And while the Rhodes samples alone pretty much make this disc a good buy, you get a LOT of really slamming rhythm section samples. None of them are particularly huge or deeply sampled, yet there\'s not a weak link in the whole bunch. Totally usable stuff.

    \"Fake\" Rhodes: My picks here are FM-7 for the classic DX Rhodes, and Pro-53 for the classic \"Prophet Rhodes.\" There is a FREE Wurly giga-sample here on Northernsounds that is very nice.

    Voices: I think Symphony of Voices and Vocal Planet, by Spectrasonics (Eric Persing), and Voices of the Apocalypse, by Quantum Leap/EastWest (Nick Phoenix) would cover just about every angle.

    Drums: Kontakt with the Studio Drums and Electronic Drums libraries. You already have Purrrfect Drums which gives you all the clean drums and pristine cymbals you\'ll ever need.

    OK, the problem here, obviously, is that the grand total is probably more than you\'ll get for the 5080. But it\'s a list of options to explore.

  8. #8

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
    [

    That said, it\'s probably a good generator of basic rhythm tracks as you\'re stating, but then again, so are a lot of things. If you\'re not a \"synthesis guy\" then Reason may not automatically give you the results you seek. You\'ll still have to design your schemes, it may have some presets that are cool, but if you\'re trying to knock off very specific tracks, then you\'ll have to get down and dirty with filtering to do that. It won\'t just be \"load a preset and go.\"

    I\'m not trying to discourage you a bit, but simply reminding you that a LOT of options exist, and some are definitely more powerful than Reason.

    Kontakt is a great platform for percussion--the new Electronic Drums library for Battery/Kontakt is totally slamming, and inside Kontakt, you can customize and design automated filtering processes that just slam Reason completely in the dust. Then again, you\'re going to pay more money for it...but in this case, you\'d also be getting the flexibility of a plugin implementation, which is going to be more robust than a Rewire implementation...not to mention a VERY nice 3 GB library bundled with the app.\"

    First off, thanks for the detailed and informative reply.
    Didn\'t know about Kontact, though had heard of it, will go find a demo.

    Yes, the idea of doing rhythm tracks....drums mainly, with a perhaps a few other flourishes from the other modules, is mainly how I\'d use Reason I suspect. In fact, let me quote a friend from over in the DigiDesign forum, where I\'m also discussing this...it\'s a bit long but I think it\'s a good illustration of how I might want to use it, and I\'d like to hear what you think:

    \"Tom,
    I\'m using just Reason and ProTools, I don\'t use Logic on my Mac ( I have Logic and another copy of Reason on my PC rig, along with GigaSampler, but that is another thread...).
    The ReFuse thing works great. I use Reason mainly for getting whacked out loops built. It has the coolest cheesy compressors and distortion units, and you can mix and match multiple loops on multiple loop players, building up the mondo-est loop. I record that into ProTools and use the repeat function, cut and paste etc.
    Since the addition of the Maelstrom synth in Reason 2.0, I\'ve been using it to get some real wild pads and stuff. So I use it and other Reason Devices like any of my other virtual synths.
    One other thing I do is use Recycle to turn any loop into a REX 2 file that Reason can read. So ALL my ACID loops can be read by Recycle/Reason. I\'ve actually found new life for a lot of these loops, because once a loop is \"Rex\'ed\" and imported into Reason, you can manipulate the slices, so for example, you can get rid of the snare in the verses and have it return in the chorus. Something Acid can\'t do. Eric Persing\'s STYLUS does a similar thing with \"Groove Control\", slicing up the loop and adding a midi file that triggers each slice.
    Reason is also the coolest writing tool. I take it and an Oxygen 8 keyboard with me everywhere I go and I can write anywhere. Then get back and dump it into ProTools.
    Another thing I have noticed about Reason, is that I can build a loop involving many devices at a certain tempo and when I export that loop as a file (.wav file) and import it into a ProTools session that\'s at the same tempo, it fits perfectly. Some other products that I have used the export loop function on do not seem to see tempos exactly like ProTools and I end up having to trim/time stretch/slice up them to make the loop ready to repeat through a song. An imported Reason loop fits exactly. \" ---RC Studio, Digi Forum.

    Now back to your response....

    \"So is letting go of the 5080 an either/or situation?\"

    Kind of. It\'s a cash problem, as always And truthfully, I dont\' use the 5080 for anything but the items I mentioned. I use Giga for everything else.

    \"My personal pics:

    Organ: NI B4. You cannot beat it. There are $2000+ hardware solutions that sound like dog crap compared to B4.\"

    I have heard this, and yep, you are correct. As I recall, the price was stiff.....

    Rhodes: My favorite giga-Rhodes is the \"slow Rhodes\" on Franz\'s VR Sound Giga Module disc. It\'s a three-layer, looped, down and dirty suitcase sample. All the others I\'ve heard are too clean--this one has enough hair on it to sit in a mix. And while the Rhodes samples alone pretty much make this disc a good buy, you get a LOT of really slamming rhythm section samples. None of them are particularly huge or deeply sampled, yet there\'s not a weak link in the whole bunch. Totally usable stuff.

    \"Fake\" Rhodes: My picks here are FM-7 for the classic DX Rhodes, and Pro-53 for the classic \"Prophet Rhodes.\" There is a FREE Wurly giga-sample here on Northernsounds that is very nice.\"

    Great info. Will check out....

    Voices: I think Symphony of Voices and Vocal Planet, by Spectrasonics (Eric Persing), and Voices of the Apocalypse, by Quantum Leap/EastWest (Nick Phoenix) would cover just about every angle.\"

    Yes, they would probably cover it all. I do have Nick\'s set already for the more classic voice stuff. It\'s the Enya style layers that the 5080 excels at...

    Drums: Kontakt with the Studio Drums and Electronic Drums libraries. You already have Purrrfect Drums which gives you all the clean drums and pristine cymbals you\'ll ever need.

    OK, the problem here, obviously, is that the grand total is probably more than you\'ll get for the 5080. But it\'s a list of options to explore.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">And this I will do. Again, thanks for this dialog.

    This is what I do before I buy anything. I drive everyone crazy, download demos, and read. Then I make the plunge. Thanks to you and all for assisting in the quest!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    OK, I may be really bucking the trend here, but personally, I am only partially happy with the way Reason actually SOUNDS. I have found that synth for synth, the Native Instruments designs are more deep and complex to my ears and that the Reason synths tend to be a little more generic sounding. FWIW.

    On the other hand, you\'ll pay less for Reason than for some single NI synths, so it\'s certainly worth having and using.

  10. #10

    Re: Anyone Here Using Reason?

    Hey Gang,

    I most often use GigaStudio in combination with a MIDI/DAW - nTrack. I also have ACID PRO 4 and Arturia\'s Storm 2.0. However, my main synth is still the trusty SY99, which also serves as my MIDI keyboard controller.

    I\'ve been really impressed with Storm, and for down and dirty get-there-quick sound and phrase construction - it\'s top notch. I still use the SY99 for much of the longer-developing synth textures, but the realtime control and end results in Storm are becoming quite addictive. I\'ve never used Reason (so why am I replying?? - just bored, I guess), but I\'m tempted to check it out see about all the fuss.

    So, does anyone out there use the synthesis capabilities of GigaStudio for realtime control of acoustic texture - or are we all playback-volume-pan-fader jockies? I\'m looking forward to taking the synth funtions of GigaStudio through it\'s paces, as soon as I can get some time. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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