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Topic: A different view on GST3...

  1. #1

    A different view on GST3...

    Found this post on the Cubase forum.

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by pinkcanary:
    From their brochure:

    Unlimited Polyphony Instead of a maximum 160 voices, polyphony for
    GigaStudio 3.0 Orchestra is limited only by the
    number of drives, drive speed, and processor speed
    your system has.

    Fancy that! The major plus for GS3 in this respect is that it is really efficient and can get more out of one CPU than a regular VSTi - at this time.

    <caron> ReWire
    GigaStudio 3.0 supports ReWire routing

    Stands back in amazement. Rewire? really? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    <caron> New DSP Station
    The GigaStudio 3.0 mixer section has expanded
    to 128 channels, 32 group faders and features an
    expanded processing section including a 4-band
    EQ and compressor on each channel.

    Ever seen Cubase or Nuendo? Those guys automate quite nicely too. It\'s great to have a massive mixer - but where\'s the control?

    <caron> Quick Edit control
    Parameters such as tuning, envelopes, filters,
    attenuation, and sample offset are at your fingertips
    in real-time without having to go into the
    instrument editor.

    Fancy that. NOTHING could have been worse than the old Giga editor. Any improvement is a BIG improvement for Giga users. Halion\'s interface was already leagues ahead.

    <caron> VST plug-in hosting

    So you can use the plugins that we already have? This is big news?

    <caron> Real Time Surround Convolution

    That IS impressive. Probably the one thing that really made me sit up and take notice. However, convolution is available FREE as a VST (SIR is one clever piece of kit) and there are already mic modelling plugins available.) The thing is that convolution is dead heavy on the CPU and has big latency. The Giga offering is real time. So I\'m still impressed.

    Intelligent MIDINew controller rules including Expanded Legato,
    Alternation, Round Robin, and Random sample
    playback make instruments sound even more realistic.

    Imagine if GS3 hadn\'t included that!!
    External software devices are already doing this, Halion will almost definitely have this kind of capability (there will be a freakin\' riot if it doesn\'t) so this is hardly ground breaking.

    <caron> 24-Bit/96kHz instrument support
    GS3 allows creation and implementation of 24 bit/96kHz sample libraries with 192K hardware

    So, at last, Giga can play 24 bit files without chopping off 8 bits. It should be noted that GS3 is reported to be able to play 24 bit files putting no more strain on the system than 16 bit by virtue of a smart compression technique. That IS significant. This would be an area that I would be very interested in pursuing. Given that VST is not operating at \'kernal\' level and is, therefore, less efficient, it makes absolute sense to reduce stress at the core of the sampler.... the samples themselves.

    <caron> Enhanced Capture To Wave (multi channel)
    Now simultaneously record 8 audio streams.

    Yeah.. but if you\'re like the many users with slave computers, you\'re not gonna use that at all. You\'ll simply record from one computer to another. And even if you\'re on one computer, you can still loop back for multitrack rendering as I described in another thread.
    How many people routinely render multiple tracks. Just for safety, and even with the ability to render 48 audio inputs in real time on my system, I tend to go 2 tracks at a time, so that I can check each bounce and mute what I don\'t need as I go.

    <caron> Unlimited Instrument Stacking
    Load as many instruments as you wish on a single
    MIDI channel. Control each of the stacked instruments
    parameters and even route each stacked
    instrument to its own audio channel.

    Halion has been able to do that since it came out. Not only that - you can determine the output for a SINGLE SAMPLE not just the whole instrument.

    <caron> Up to 128 Dimensions available for creating expressive keyswitches and crossfades

    Halion can do that. There\'s no limit on crossfades, and they can be specified on a PER SAMPLE basis. Same for switches.

    <caron> GSIF 2.0 with Kernel Level MIDI and support for 8
    channels of audio input and 32 channels of output

    Kernal level midi? There is a lot of BS about this low latency. You can play Halion or any decent VSTi can play at such low latency that the performer is not aware of any lag. My systems are all set to 256 samples which is 6 ms.
    However - the PLAYBACK can be sample accurate. That means you can quantize events and not have to worry about the serial nature of midi. Events which are supposed to hit together DO hit together.
    What\'s more, that accuracy is maintained on a Systemlinked setup. Giga via MIDI is always going to be plain old MIDI and no way will it be as accurate as a VSTi like Halion. To pretend otherwise is just assuming that you\'re ALL idiots.

    <caron> GigaPulse™ SP for everyone; GigaPulse™ Pro for sample developers
    Sample developers now have the ability to encode their instruments with acoustic space/reverb
    convolution and mic modeling using GigaPulse™ Pro included with GigaStudio Orchestra.

    This is powerful stuff. No doubt. I can\'t wait to hear how it actually impacts a given library or sound source.

    This is my overview based on the literature I\'ve seen. Anyone think I\'ve been uncharitable or misrepresented anything? - Please, let\'s discuss. I\'m as interested in seperating hype from fact as the next person.

  2. #2

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    Fancy that! The major plus for GS3 in this respect is that it is really efficient and can get more out of one CPU than a regular VSTi - at this time.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Old 2.5 is way more efficient than any other sampler to get more out of one CPU. 3.0 even improves on that. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

    GigaStudio 3.0 supports ReWire routing

    Stands back in amazement. Rewire? really?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">It is my understanding that to keep this amazing effeciency Rewire is the way to go.

    Fancy that. NOTHING could have been worse than the old Giga editor. Any improvement is a BIG improvement for Giga users. Halion\'s interface was already leagues ahead.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think Giga editor is very good for mapping your own instruments. I tried Halion and felt very uncomfortable with it.

  3. #3

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    Anyone see where that other GS3 thread went? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    It\'s not even been moved to the off topic section!

    Ben H

  4. #4

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    Michiel (and you\'re not alone), I find it funny that what most people seem to concentrate on is technical blah blah like 24-bit, 96khz etc and trying to compare samplers only based on that. If that was all that mattered, then I would agree that GS is just now catching up. But all this technical BS isn\'t first priority to me, and I know that I am not alone.

    Why not focus on the fact that GS still has the best, most reliable and most efficient streaming engine? With GS you know what you get. If you can get 140 (mono) notes without any clicks and pops, you know that you\'ll ALWAYS be able to get that. You won\'t run into trouble. Other streaming engines seem to crackle and pop at random - totally unreliable and doesn\'t feel very comfortable. Also, for me GS has been probably the most stable piece of software. I am running it on W98 still, so I don\'t know if the jump to XP will cause a whole sleeve of problems, but for the past 3-4 years, I have had very few crashes in GS. Halion and Kompakt however, have caused both Logic and Cubase SX to crash a few times.

    VSTi\'s tend to have \"geeky\" GUI\'s that are not using the standard Windows functions. And when they crash, they take the whole sequencer with them. If you run them remotely using VStack or smth, the hazard is smaller of course. Still you have to deal with a maximum of 16 MIDI channels per instance, unreliable streaming, a terrible GUI and no search engine to find samples (which is all I use to browse samples).

    To me GigaStudio represents a solid workhorse. And I am so happy that the recent development seems to focus a lot on GigaStudio as a sampler for orchestral music, since I believe this is its big force.

    Your arguments against GigaStudio seem purely technical and not functional.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    Michiel is quoting PinkCanary from the Halion forum. All of the material he quoted there was written by Pink, not him. I am not sure why he posted this here...

    But Michiel has decided to withhold updates to any of his libraries from end users, in an attempt to blackmail Tascam into putting CP into GigaStudio, I suppose. I guess the idea is that if he holds out on his clients, they\'ll join in the call for Tascam to neuter its own product. Funny that he sells 24-bit libraries for other platforms right now, yet chooses to mess with the GigaStudio users who he freely admits BOUGHT more sampler libraries from him than users of all the other platforms combined.

    I am extremely disappointed in this news. It has become a pretty sad day when a person\'s paying customers become pawns in a game.

  6. #6

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    Michiel, why did you post this ?
    This is a post from the Cubase Halion forum, I\'m puzzled by your motive for posting this here.


  7. #7

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    My motives? I just stumbled across this post and found it interesting that Pinkcanary has a different focus on the new features that GST3 offers. He compares them with an existing product (in this case HALion). I believe his arguments are valid on some points, so there is food for discussion. Isn\'t that what forums are about?

    Who is blackmailing TASCAM to implement CP in their app?
    I expect that adequate CP will exist in the very near future. In fact, I know it already exists. It\'s more a matter of implementation.

    The fact that we have the 24 bits samples available for Halion does not imply that we are also selling them. So far we sold a couple a few weeks ago and immediately after that they showed up as DL\'s on a pub-list. Sales stopped suddenly. You know the pattern. The same pattern that we hope to break soon.

    Several months ago we decided that new PMI releases would be protected by non-intrusive forms of CP. Watermarking that triggers a mechanism of user ID, secured installers that write user ID\'s in waveforms, challenge response authorization and hard drive locked files have been examined. We haven\'t decided yet, but we will implement a transparent and easy method to protect our work against thieves. No matter what Bruce says about our choices, it\'s in everybody\'s interest (end-user, TASCAM and PMI) that we sell (and not give away [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] ) libraries for GST.

    Imagine the next scenario: you have a library that has been authorized to you on your system(s). A green light shows in GST that it was registered to you. When a copy of that file shows up on another system, GST simply shows a red light (error code 404: file is corrupt, authoization flag missing, please re-authorize). How would that bother you?

  8. #8

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    I\'m sort of in the same boat as you, Michiel, and I know that the White Grand will be pirated, as any other library, copyprotected or not.
    Do I like it? Hell no!
    Up until this date I\'ve heard of none software that\'s 100% protected from illegal copying due to some kind of copyprotection, and it will be the same with samples.
    So, bottom line, IMO:
    Will sample libraries be pirated? Yes!
    Will copyprotection stop that? No!
    Who are the real losers in this? The honest people that have to use dongles, install LAN and all other gizmos that are used to try to protect our property.
    Michiel, I understand your point and frustration!
    I do not like being stolen from, and I\'ll fight it any way I can, but not at the cost of my customers.
    I truly believe that dongles and other copyprotection schemes that makes life hard for the users are the wrong way to go.
    The right way? I don\'t know. If I knew, I would be a millionaire!

  9. #9

    Re: A different view on GST3...



  10. #10

    Re: A different view on GST3...

    Halion has been able to do that since it came out. Not only that - you can determine the output for a SINGLE SAMPLE not just the whole instrument.

    And just how often do you actually do that? My old w-30 roland workstation sampler could do that. It\'s 10 years old, at least. Did I actually use that feature? No. Why? Coz it\'s utterly pointless.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Pointless? I can only hope 3.0 can do it too. With my Rolands I used to make orchestral percussion kits. One patch (for easy composing or improvising) with a variety of instruments which I routed through various physical outputs in order to have different placements and reverb amounts. I miss it! I guess we all work differently.

    Alex Cremers

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