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Topic: Bosendorfer comparison

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  1. #1

    Bosendorfer comparison

    Does anyone have BOTH Kip\'s and Post\'s Bosendorfer? I have a need for a bosen but only funds for one or the other. I have PMI\'s Steinway and am very satisfied (just looking for black AND brown shoes.)

    I am really interested in hearing from those that have personally tried both pianos. IMHO, to my ears Kip\'s piano sounds a little better on MP3 (although, John Grant\'s lastest demo sound terrific). I WAS leaning towards Kip\'s until John\'s demos.

    Is there anyway to have John\'s performances played through Kip\'s piano?

    Your feedback would be appreciated.

    Rob

  2. #2

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    Re my demos: the Ballade and the Moonlight. These are quick one-offs. Given time I could do MUCH better with the Post BOS. I haven\'t the benefit of my monitors (well, Mackie HR824s--not the greatest, merely OK), since I\'ve just moved. I\'m just using the SR225 Grado phones, and I\'m not spending any serious time analyzing my midi file: which MUST be done to get the best sound. The files I use for the Steinway B of course should be completely modified for the BOS! Two different instruments, two different approaches. Once I set up my studio (ie \"small room in house\") at my new digs, I\'m confident I can easily better these quicky experiments and show off the Post BOS to much better advantage.

    Even so, even with no hard work, the results suggest to me that it\'s one h.ll of a piano sample. I don\'t have Kip\'s BOS, so I can\'t compare. In any case, I think you\'d want to email users directly about the issue, since we don\'t want to get into, you know, wars of any type on the subject. Folks tend to be very politic at this site, and that\'s probably the way it should be! (I know I haven\'t always been, and that\'s a mistake on my part.)

    I know folks like to say nice things like \"there\'s no comparing the great samples, they\'re just suited to different applications and different artists\' likes and dislikes.\" I don\'t subscribe to this view. I think there really are truly better and worse samples.

    J. Grant

    http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/42/john_lewis_grant.html

  3. #3

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    John,

    Your opinion on sampled pianos carries a lot of weight with me (that is to say, I listened to a lot of your stuff a long time ago and thought it was marvelous - and all of the MP3s for all of these pianos sound pretty great to me, so I have to defer to better piano \'chops\').

    When (if) you have time I\'d really like to hear (exactly) why you rate Michael\'s new piano so highly. I listened to all of the MP3s of his Grandioso and, frankly, I can\'t hear at all where it could be improved. I was almost as impressed with Kip\'s piano but I believe if I had any preference it was for the Steinway \'sound\' that I enjoy so much and not a preference for the sound of one library over another. I think if we go down the Kip v. Michael\'s library route it may end in tears, but I\'d nevertheless like to hear your honest opinion of why Michael\'s Bose has impressed you so much. (You don\'t have Kip\'s anyway, so that\'s probably solved.)

    I doubt my Ztar could even access 16 layers, but with new software on the horizon I have hopes.

    If you find you have to sound \'negative\' on one library to \'explain\' another please, please go ahead. I don\'t want anyone\'s feelings hurt, but this is the main reason I come to this forum; to hear expert and honest opinions that I simply cannot form by listening to MP3s (and probably couldn\'t even if I owned the piano in question).

    I only own the Malmsjo, and while I absolutely love it to death, sometimes I have a hankering for the \'gigantic\' dynamic range that only this type of piano can deliver.

  4. #4

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    I\'ve listened critically to both the Post Bos. and the Bardstown Bos. demos through my Genelec 1032A\'s and there is no comparison. The Bardstown Audio Bos. is obviously better.

    But I do agree with one, and only one, thing Grant has said: \"I think there really are truly better and worse samples.\"

    Yes, greatness does NOT depend on the application. A great sampled piano is a great sampled piano under any application and Kip\'s Bos. is THE great piano.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    I have used all three of these pianos, so I\'ll gladly attempt a comparison.

    Without being \"polite\" in the least, I can say that I honestly like all three very much. These are different pianos, with different strong points. They\'re equally well done, each has a few warts here and there, and I\'d say they are all well within the current state of the art in quality.

    Bardstown Bosendorfer) Point blank mic range makes this an obvious choice for pop tunes where you want the hyper-hugeness of tone this perspective delivers. It\'s mapped player-perspective, that is, with bass notes at your left and upper octaves at your right. There\'s some room ambience in the staccato releases, but I have edited the instruments to gate those down, so that the staccato releases match \"pedal released\" notes a bit more closely. You can impulse the sound into a distant perspective, but that\'s not the strong suit here. HUGE dynamic range. Go for this one when you want bold and in your face tone. Also works super well behind vocals...giving you those bright tones that don\'t clog up the middle. Just got a compliment from a client today on the sound of this one.

    Post Grandioso Steinway) Lid-level, audience perspective mic plot gives this piano a \"sitting ten feet away from you\" feeling. Very good for a darker, combo-type setting and intimate solo playing. Probably my favorite \"feeling\" of the three. Since it\'s more up the middle than the Bardstown Bos, it has a really nice quality for simple lead-line melodies that really ride on top of a mix. Takes reverb well, and has a set of ambient mics, too. One nice thing here...the room this piano was recorded in is so quiet, you can literally hear the player breathing as the notes fade. The result is a rather ironically intimate sound, since the damping in the studio is very nice and does not indicate any solid \"walls.\" The mics sound closer than they actually are, but you still get the impression of the piano sitting in front of you rather than right between the eyes.

    Post Grandioso Bosendorfer) The first two pianos are more similar in approach and tone quality--this one is far more ambient, especially the \"ambient\" mic plot. I actually prefer the ambient plot to the close plot, since the close plot is player perspective. This piano is really useful for solo/ambient/classical work, and to an extent, some pop styles. But by and large, I prefer the Bardstown or Post Steinway for those styles...the room is very present even in the close mic version, and sometimes it\'s just a bit much for a mix. This piano does not ever get \"dry.\" It\'s the obvious choice for an orchestral-perspective instrument, concerto-style work, etc., where you want to give the impression of a more distant piano.

    That\'s my personal assessment and comparison. Of course, it goes without saying that you can engineer any of these sounds into something quite different if needed...this is more of an out-of-the-box characterization. You can\'t really go wrong with any of the three, they\'re all very high quality. If you are doing just one type of music predominantly, then you may want to pick one piano that suits you...but if you tend to produce lots of styles, I don\'t know of any single sampled piano that\'s going to cover it all.

    Hope that helps more than confuses...at least it\'s something.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    Originally posted by Dr. Hook:
    I\'ve listened critically to both the Post Bos. and the Bardstown Bos. demos through my Genelec 1032A\'s and there is no comparison. The Bardstown Audio Bos. is obviously better.

    But I do agree with one, and only one, thing Grant has said: \"I think there really are truly better and worse samples.\"

    Yes, greatness does NOT depend on the application. A great sampled piano is a great sampled piano under any application and Kip\'s Bos. is THE great piano.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What you are saying is that one microphone perspective fits all needs, and that is completely untrue. Even in a studio setting where the piano remains the same, tracking engineers and producers will change the mic plot project by project.

    All you can say is that YOU prefer the sound of one over the other, based upon MP3 demos. In fact, you are not producing work with either one. That\'s a pretty uninformed position for such bold claims.

  7. #7

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    Thanks for sharing that Bruce

    I am still in search for the New Age sound in a Piano. Any ideas which Piano Library out there can give me the New Age tone characteristics. Pianos I love as far as the tone is the tone of David Lanz new age stuff. I have Grandioso, and truly it is too dark and powerfull for what I need.

    Any tips on a Piano Library that will give me close to the sound I am looking for?

    When listening to the Post Bosendorfer, immediately knew this was a great tone for classical music, truly authentic.

    What I am looking for is a Piano that is delicate, yet convincing when playing New Age solos?

    Please shed some light its dark in here!!!

    Caveman

  8. #8

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    Thanks a million Bruce. I\'m sure a lot of us here appreciate your perspective on this. I listened to many of the MP3s for all of these pianos and they all sound great; each sounds better than the last.

  9. #9

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    I haven\'t got the Genelecs, but I\'d sure like a pair! In the meantime, when I get my meagre equipment set up I can offer a much better assessment of why I love the Post BOS.

    I CAN say one thing fairly definitive. Compare my Steinway B sound, or even Post\'s Grandioso Steinway (C?) to this BOS. What the BOS 16 layer WET sample has that the others don\'t is PRESENCE or what some call \"AIR.\" That\'s critical to me. It\'s what I hear in all modern solo piano recordings that no piano sample hitherto has duplicated. Now we have it. And we get a beautiful tone as well.

    When I say I can \"do better\" re my quicky demos I mean by playing with the midi file; adjusting the reverb; editing the tone with gigastudio, etc., etc. But I need my equipment set up before I can do that.

    John
    http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/42/john_lewis_grant.html

    John

  10. #10

    Re: Bosendorfer comparison

    You can reverse the audience perspective to player perspective by going to the GStudio mixer
    page (DSP Station) and reversing the pan position of the sliders.

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