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Topic: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

  1. #1

    Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..


    I have been pondering the idea of creating an elaborate acoustic guitar sample set for gigastudio. Thought i\'d take a moment to propose my ideas to the fine members of this forum. I would like to find out what is lacking in the current crop of acoustic guitar samples, is there a market/demand for such a thing, and I would like some ideas about mappings, arrangement, etc.

    Being a guitarist, I of course, have no guitar libraries, i just hear time and time again, \"I need nice guitar/chord samples\". Well, i have some time off in the near future, i have a great guitar (Gibson CL-40 Artist http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/pressrelease/1997/images/montana-cl40.jpg ),20 years experience, good mics, good engineer, and a desire to create a comprehensive library.

    If i get enough positive feedback, i plan on beta testing my idea, create a small patch that outlines my ideas and make it free to public.

    Here is what i am thinking: First organize patches in diatonic keys, for instance ... C_Major_Diantonic.gig (one octave with C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, B halfdim. chords [down strokes] -- three octaves up make same progression with up strokes. Use 6 layers of dynamics and create keyswitches for 7th chord, 9th, 13th, etc) Does this sound like a good start ? I could create several different mapping, for all 12 diatonic keys (and do same for minor and modes), and have all derived from same wav pool.

    Also, i have considered doing the same but with chromatic patches, with convenient keyswitch for different chord types.

    I would begin with chords available to the first position (and a bit beyond), there are FAR to many chord voicing to even consider trying to do all ... [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] I would rather spend time finding chord voicing that sound smooth and fluent, as well as open and full.

    I pondered the idea of creating random crossfade variations for use with the mod wheel.

    I would also include a patch with single notes so the user could add non chord tones at will, and retain the timbre of the instrument, not be stuck with my chords and another set\'s single notes.

    Sorry if my ideas seem random, because they are. I have yet to sit with pen and paper and think out a logical arrangement.

    So, here is enough info to get a discussion going, please let me know what you think, i\'d love to be able to create a useful product for this new paradigm.


  2. #2

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    Great idea!

    My first suggestion to you would be that instead of having keyswitched chord variations (7th, 9th, etc), you offer 8 layers of the same chord. Yep, the same Gmin down strum played 8 times (meaning each will be slightly different). I think that would go a long way towards making a realistic-sounding guitar strum since, as you know, there are slight variations everytime you strum the same chord. I can envision using random keyswitching to make the strumming more human. You should still offer the chord extensions, and they could also be offered with variations. Finally, you could do the same for the single notes as, again, the same note played 8 times by a \'live\' player will sound a little (or a lot) different each time.

    I wish you good luck in your endeavour!

  3. #3

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    Sorry to play the devil\'s advocate here, but with all of the recent developers complaints about the small revenues, high piracy, and extremely hard work......what is your motivation for getting into such an unthankful line of business?

    Before you get to far into it you might want to re-think your plan.

    I\'m not trying to discourage you, but if you do go down this path today, I hope you will not turn into one of those sour developers tomorrow!

  4. #4

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    I think it\'s a superb idea! I could really use a guitar like you have described.

    I would buy something like this for certain.

    Please, keep us posted.

  5. #5

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    Hey Passaglia,

    There are a few reasons this might be a good idea:

    A single well sampled acoustic guitar library, (eg the VR one), doesn\'t really represent the full cross section of timbres available in the real world, so there is probably room for another \'tone\' to be added to sampler owners pallettes.

    Just as samples made in the days of the Akai sampler are now seen as \'limited\' in their ability to accurately represent an instrument (in the light of the disk streaming technology made available by Giga), even libraries made with current Gigastudio parameters will seem \'limited\' when Gigastudio V3 is released. Tomorrow\'s facilities may make resampling certain instruments a good idea.

    24 bit recording sounds better than 16 bit, and I\'m sure that within a year or two it will be practical for people to purchase libraries which are 24 bit from front to back.

    That said, there seems to be a heck of a lot of samples to do if you really want to cover this sucker in detail.

    Without even looking at the single notes, say you recorded the chord stuff this way:

    3 strum tempos(slow, medium, fast),
    12 keys in a scale,
    7 chord types,
    3 inversions,
    3 strum styles - open, muted, half muted,
    3 strum widths - all notes, bottom strings only, top strings only,
    6 velocities...
    2 mic positions

    That\'s over 80,000 samples.
    Lots of time recording and editing!

    So what do you cut out?

    The extra mic position?

    Down to about 40,000.

    Probably the next easiest thing to lose is the strum widths, where you give people control over whether they strum all 6 strings, or just the top or bottom. And I suppose you can probably get by without supplying muted and half muted versions - probably.

    Down to about 4500.

    IMHO, it\'d be a real shame to lose the inversions. They add such flexibility to the instrument\'s position in an arrangement.

    I don\'t think you can afford to do just a single strum speed - slow strums won\'t work with fast music and vice versa. Sure, with a sampler you can force the slow strums to play in time with a fast piece, but it just doesn\'t gell. You need flexibility in tempo.

    If you do knock out one of these multipliers, you\'re down to the quite manageable number of 1500 samples.

    Maybe a compromise can be reached between the number of velocities and keeping the inversions, or strum styles?

    Tough choices, but that\'s the developer\'s lot I suppose [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Good luck mate

  6. #6

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    Great feedback!!! Just what i needed

    Revenues/Protection: I will not quit my day job [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] This does seem to be a rough time for developers, I may wait till specs come out for 3.0 -- would almost be silly not to. I will start the sampling proccess now, and not start mapping until we get some clear-cut answers about 3.0 implementations (Tascam, speak up now! Potential Developers need this info, your future business hinges on these issues). As for protection, i see no need for it, i feel as though there are enough honest people who will purchase this. Call me an idealist! -- As for cost/overhead. I\'m contemplating just running off copies per order, have a print shop create the inserts, and do all the copies myself. If i recall, the last two Post Media sets i purchased appeared to be CD-R\'s (i purchased through BiggaGigga\'s), the lack of screen-printed lables certainly did not diminish the great quality of the samples. I think developers loss tons with overhead of their inventory. If i recieve 500 orders in the first week, maybe i will reconcider [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Now the fun part: What to add and what to leave out, Chadwick you had great suggestions! Thank you! Yes, i considered the idea of inversions, but that opens a whole can-of-worms, especially with chord extenions ... in some cases these would be absolutley essential .... like an open C chord, it is very common to add the G to the bass, but for instance .... an Ab Major, it is hard enough to find a functional voicing for root position, w/o making a generic bar form ... and inverting the chord is almost no existant ... then makes me think more .... how do i approach the flat keys? in a studio situation, i would either drop the guitar down a half step, or use a capo, there are more variables for the equations :-)

    As for variations in strumming, would there be a good compromise with filters ? speed up or slow down the attack ? this would mean less samples in the pool ... but would it work ?

    Chord Widths: well i would almost make each velocity layer a different width/articulation ....... oh my!!!!! so much more to think about.

    Ok, now is the time to sit down with pen and paper :-)

    Keep up the great suggestions!!!!!!!!


  7. #7

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..


    I would suggest sampling intervals, so that people can build their own chords.
    Assuming most guitarchords consist of six notes, you would need 3 intervals to create a chord.
    Offsetting these slightly would allow you to create your own strummed chords. A number of variations per interval would keep it real.



  8. #8

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    If you\'re saying the Accoustic Essentials is not a good deal, you\'re wrong. Keep in mind it\'s about $50.00 or so. If you want more acoustic options with more features then try:

    Sonic Implants Acoustic Guitars. Plenty of strums, single notes, 6 and 12 string variations.

    Jim Corrigan: Nashville High-Strung Guitars

    Matt Ragan: Max Strength Acoustic Guitar

    Jacaranda Guitars: Volume 1

    Yellow Tools Pure Guitars.

    Not to mention all of the acoustic guitars in the Akai formats. (Hanz Zimmer Volumes 1&2, etc..)

    Hey, if profit is NOT your driving factor, then by all means develop \"another\" acoustic guitar library.

    Regardless how \"good\" your library will/could be, your market potential is already limited due to the fact of the number of your competitors.

    Someone is going to produce a good Electric Guitar Library with strums, chords, etc, and I\'m going to be the first in line to buy it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  9. #9

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    Interesting ..... ok, please go into detail (if you have the time), of exactly what you would want in an electric guitar library.

    And who do you believe my target market would be ?


  10. #10

    Re: Premium Acoustic Guitar Samples - If there is a demand, i will create ..

    Also, does anyone here have Virtual Guitarist by Steinberg, or the QL Strat?

    Would i simply be reinventing the wheel?


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