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Topic: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

  1. #1

    Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    I recall coming across some epic-long discussions on this topic before but I want to concentrate this time strictly on solutions for the PC.
    I had to recently work on this somewhat corny but funny animation that is a space satire (sorta like the film \'Hot Shots\' but set in space) They wanted a purposely large stereotypical sci-fi score and of course they also had their sound editor utilize a lot of cheesy sound fx. What a pain in the it was to deal with that and most of my problems were with reverb. I\'ve been trying out Cakewalk\'s (now old) Audio FX3 plugin. Does anyone use this? I used it on the entire project. It doesn\'t have anywhere near the dense reverb quality of say Altiverb (of which I can\'t use because I don\'t have a G4)
    I\'m also not sure why cakewalk stopped further development on it. It is still useable but could be much better. Anyone know the story on it?
    What are your experiences with Reverb plugins on the PC? The other reverb I rely on is DSP/FX.

    excerpts from the project:

    Sector6withfx.mp3 (with corny temporary fx)
    Sector6.mp3 (without fx)


  2. #2

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb


    FX-3 is not really a reverb. It\'s for positioning players on a soundstage.

    Try Wavearts Masterverb (www.wavearts.com), Acoustic Mirror from Sonic Foundry and DX Reverb from www.anwida.com. If you want VST try Silverspike.com.

    -- Martin

  3. #3

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb


    Where does the Waves Renaissance reverb fall into the quality list out of the ones you described above?

    Is Waves a good quality Verb?

    Back to my Cave


  4. #4

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    I have heard that the Waves reverbs are very good, but I will not use anything that uses the Pace copy protection virus.

    -- Martin

  5. #5

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    Oh yeah. All the options I mentioned are a LOT LOT LOT cheaper than Waves.

    -- Martin

  6. #6
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    Originally posted by caveman:

    Is Waves a good quality Verb?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">The Waves Renaissance Reverb is one of the best software reverbs available...plugin for plugin, you cannot go wrong with Waves. Part of that is because they own patent rights to some of the most advanced and influential psychoacoustic study ever accomplished. You\'ll find a standout or two in their competitors\' products now and then, but investing in the Platinum Bundle would get someone all of the tools they\'d need to do work that is acceptable on any level of commercial practice.

    Another one that doesn\'t get much mention here is the Sonic Timeworks ReverbX, which is a CPU hoggin\' mama, but is really a nice reverb specializing in knocking off the Lexicon trademark sound. Their previous 4080L (obvious in intention by the name) was much the same, just a less complex algorithm. Fine products, but with a little less front-panel control than the RenVerb, which allows much finer detailing of the damping and EQ within the algorithm.

    Personally, I use the Renaissance reverb almost all the time. It is SO cpu efficient at its quality level that I can afford to use 8-10 of them in a mix. This, combined with all the internal control, gives me the tools I need to detail imaging with the disparate sources encountered in an orchestral sampling mix.

    I usually set them up in submix busses (in Vegas), and detail the settings as I\'m building the mix. Starting with a single good overall setting and assigning everything to one single submix, I\'ll start listening for parts that are \"not working\" and add a new submix and transfer that part over. As the mix progresses and gets more detailed, what constitutes \"not working\" becomes a finer and finer point, and I continue adding busses, reverbs, compressors, and other effects as I go.

    I try not to put any sort of overall reverb \"glaze\" on the mix until all the instruments are imaging exactly as I\'d like, whether that\'s a natural sound or an unnatural one. Chances are, if I\'m going for something that\'s on the unnatural side, I\'m done at this point except for some final mastering, which I\'ll do in another Vegas session on the rendered stereo track. If I\'m going for a more natural virtual orchestra type sound, I\'ll still render the stereo track out and do the final mastering in another session, but I\'ll probably do a final pass of reverb with Renaissance Reverb, or with Acoustic Mirror (Ernest\'s impulses included in the GOS update are FABULOUS for this step).

    What I think is very unrealistic, and something I\'ve seen people expect, is for the mix to stay in MIDI, get printed to a stereo track from GigaStudio, and get reverb at that point. That\'s far too little control over individual tracks, and tends to produce a very \"gray\" and homogenous result which doesn\'t have much life to it. Even in a commercial/soundtrack session where the engineers have full control of mic placement from the ground-up, the individual tracks are going to be VERY detailed in the mix. When you\'re using samples, which are from different studios, different sources, different mic techniques...all of those things just necessitate it that much more.

    So I guess my point is that there IS a lot of very high quality reverb available at a good price, but some of the expectations placed upon reverb have been as unrealistic as those placed upon samples. Anyone who expects to just run his stereo mix through a reverb and get an incredibly detailed and gorgeous result is going to get disappointed in that regard. It will happen only when the stars are in rare and perfect alignment and smiling down radiantly. Otherwise, in the other 99% of situations, you will fight every mix to beauty with all the smarts and skills you have. That\'s just how it goes.

  7. #7

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    The last I had heard (through a Pro Rec review, Waves was using the PACE system of copy protection and many people were having problems with system crashes from the PACE system. Is Waves no longer using the PACE system?

  8. #8

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    Could the users of this reverb post comparitive demos to prove the superior quality?

  9. #9

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    I\'m beginning to move back to acoustic mirror.

    The new GOS impulse has really blown me away.

    Again, it really depends on the samples being used.

    I still like my Roland outboard reverbs alot.

  10. #10

    Re: Reverb.. Reverb.. and more Reverb

    Hey King,
    I really agree on the quality of the Gos impulse, it sounds very good with orchestral stuff.

    Acoustic Mirror, however, has the tendency to eat up to 100% CPU.... [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

    I like what Bruce tells about running multiple instances of a really good verb within Logic or Vegas.


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