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Topic: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

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  1. #1

    EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    I\'m new to sampling and a little fascinated by the thing.
    Being a piano player I\'ve only experimented piano samples till now.
    I must say that a sampled piano won\'t ever give me the listening sensation that my simple upright piano can
    give me (especially when freshly tuned). But as for recording I won\'t ever reach the quality that can
    be achieved with a sampled piano. All the job (micing etc.) already done.

    After practising and experimenting with akai splendid grand piano (256 mb free download at
    ftp://ftp.akaipro.co.jp/downloads/sound_libraries/S5000-S6000/ ) I\'ve decided to buy
    a serious library.
    I like Michiel Post technique and read some of his enlightening messages in the forum but
    I wasn\'t convinced by his demos (Michiel you should produce better mp3) and decided to go for
    Eastwest Steinway B. (I\'ve ordered Malmsjo gp too)

    First impressions are very good (resonance and ambience) but apart from the ringing high notes
    (already discussed in the forum) I was very disappointed to find some clicking samples in the low range
    I found clearly clicking the following samples (they are all in the middle velocity range - pedal up)
    STBME1~1.wav
    STBMF1~1.wav
    STBMG#~1.wav
    STBMB1~1.wav
    STBME2~1.wav
    STBMD#~3.wav

    Clicks are due to the fact that the wave doesn\'t start at zero level and the very first ms are a little
    irregular in shape

    What gets on my nerve is that removing the clicks could be very easy for eastwest, but there must
    be someone caring enough there to listen thoroughly to all the samples. Apparently that\'s not the case.

    To make this simple wave restoration I had to:
    - Import the library in avawe (compressed samples can\'t be edited directly)
    - export the library in gig (uncompressed)
    - Linten to all the samples
    - find out the clicking ones
    - export the samples
    - restore the attacks of the waves (just the first 3 ms - wavelab did the job quite easily)
    - load the restored waves in awave and convert them in compressed gig format (extension .wa!)
    - replace the samples

    A half afternoon for doing a job that should have been done by EastWest (since I paid for it)

    Any comments?

    p.s. If anyone\'s interested I could send the 6 restored samples (.wa! format)

  2. #2

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    Hello Luca,

    This library has been in circulation since 1998, and this problem has never been reported to us. Nor has this problem ever been mentioned in any review, which consistently rated the EASTWEST Steinway B one of the best sampled pianos on the market.

    As a company that strives to release high quality products, I will have technical support test this, and report what we find. However it is more likely something else in your system is causing this. Our piano contains a lot of data (1.6 gigabytes uncompressed), and a system that is not optimized can produce clicks.

    BTW, we are always open to improving our libraries and will review any attempts to do so. If we use your version as an upgrade you will be compensated.

    Doug Rogers
    EASTWEST

  3. #3

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    Hi,

    yes, the Steinway B is a very good Piano.

    I\'ve contacted Olivier Truan by private Mail to congrulate him for this great piano.

    it would be nice to make a version of this Steinway B with 5/6 velocity up and Down.

    The private Steinway B of olivier Truan is a very good Piano.

    According to me it\'s difficult to sell a lot of such library in .gig format.

    When i bought this Piano (per mail at www.soundsonline.com), i was unable to find this libray in FRANCE.

    Gigastudio is unkwown in France.

    please eastwest, produce in Steinway D and choose Olivier Truan to record it.

    A steinway D with 16 velocity layers !!!!!!!

    And make more marketing, commercial actions, demos in live in France.......

    more marketing please !!!!

    Olivier FRAPPIER

  4. #4

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    Originally posted by dougrogers:
    Hello Luca,

    This library has been in circulation since 1998, and this problem has never been reported to us. Nor has this problem ever been mentioned in any review, which consistently rated the EASTWEST Steinway B one of the best sampled pianos on the market.

    As a company that strives to release high quality products, I will have technical support test this, and report what we find. However it is more likely something else in your system is causing this. Our piano contains a lot of data (1.6 gigabytes uncompressed), and a system that is not optimized can produce clicks.

    BTW, we are always open to improving our libraries and will review any attempts to do so. If we use your version as an upgrade you will be compensated.

    Doug Rogers
    EASTWEST
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Doug,

    I was never able to get Steinway B to work without massive pops and clicks. Many calls to East West, who were very helpful, Soundchaser, and Nemesys, netted nothing. As long as the sustain pedal was down, there were massive pops and clicks...enough to take a monitor out. My PC was built by Soundchaser and set up by them, and no amount of tweaking was able to ever stop the pops and clicks. East West sent replacement discs but the result was the same. What I heard of the piano, without the pedal down, was impressive. I also found at least one other person up here who had the same problem. Frustrating.

  5. #5

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    Hi Luca,

    I also had problems with the EastWest Steinway and went through a similar process of exporting individual samples to Awave Studio cleaning them up and filing them back.

    There were 2 problems. Some samples had clicks in them which seemed to be some corruption of the wave files and I was able to cut the affected bits out.

    Some samples seemed to have a few milliseconds of silence at the beginning which gave the impression of a latency problem. I was also able to cut out these sections in Awave.

    I had similar problems with the EastWest Bosendorfer.

    Perhaps the clicking problem (corrupted samples) has crept in at some stage of the CD production/replication. Or maybe some corruption is occuring during the loading of the gig file (though I had no problems with Gigapiano or the Malmsjo Grand).

    The experience certainly had me wondering about quality control.

  6. #6

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    hi

    Dougrogers, I don\'t think my problem are connected with system performance. After replacing the samples the clicks were gone.

    If the samples are good and the problem arises in the conversion process to gig format it would be a very interesting thing to know.

    If the samples are not perfect I\'d suggest Eastwest to produce an upgrade version with clean waves.

    Clicks are not very much evident, and affect only few keys, but can be heard when listening through headphones. Maybe we could consider that they add a touch of realism (pianist didn\'t trim his nails .... )?

  7. #7

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    Hi,

    which version of Steinway B do you have ?

    i\'ve a clean Steinway B whitout pop and clicks.

    I have 2 Cd from eastwest, multi-disk compresseg .gi!.

    This Piano run perfect in Gigastudio.

    I play the Steinway B with real Keyboard a Kawai Mp9000.

    When you load the Steinway B in the giga instrument editor you can update with the 2.0 tags.

    have you a legal version ?

    i will post .mp3 demos in my private homepage in links to show you that this piano works 100%

    i don\'t work for eastwest !!!!!

    I\'m happy with this Piano !

    i will post this afternoon demo of Steinway B :

    i play :

    Appassionata (Beethoven)

    Regards,

    Olivier

  8. #8

  9. #9

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    We also use a Sound Chaser system and we aren\'t experiencing these problems. I would be happy to replace any users discs, who are experiencing this problem, to see if something happened to them. If the problem still persists after this, then we will investigate it further. However, on checking this today, we could not reproduce the problem. I promise you, if we can reproduce this, we will have it fixed the same day.

    Doug Rogers
    EASTWEST

  10. #10

    Re: EastWest Steinway B clicking samples

    Originally posted by dougrogers:
    We also use a Sound Chaser system and we aren\'t experiencing these problems. I would be happy to replace any users discs, who are experiencing this problem, to see if something happened to them. If the problem still persists after this, then we will investigate it further. However, on checking this today, we could not reproduce the problem. I promise you, if we can reproduce this, we will have it fixed the same day.

    Doug Rogers
    EASTWEST
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Doug, as I mentioned, you guys were very helpful and already replaced the discs, to no avail. Nothing stopped the clicking when the pedal was held down. This ONLY happens, with the sustain pedal down. And these aren\'t little clicks, they start with one every second or so, then build and build until they sound like your monitors are taking a huge power hit. REALLY loud.

    optimized my discs, tried reinstalling, etc, etc, nothing worked. Made sure DMA was on, made sure the drives were fast enough, etc.

    I had to give up on the piano, which was a shame, but it was unplayable. I know there are many happy customers with this piano, so it must be something with my PC, but as I said Pete at Soundchaser set it up, it\'s got 512 ram and is a 1.2 gig Athlon processor. It has no problems with any other large files, like Giga piano or Giga harp. And complicating this is the fact that when I posted up here about the problem, someone else said they had the same thing with it. Quite a mystery.

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