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Topic: Samples in library music - please define "library"

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  1. #1

    Samples in library music - please define "library"

    The license agreements for various sample libraries refer to restrictions on the use of their samples in \"music libraries\". Could anyone tell me exactly what this means?

    I take the term \"music library\" to mean an off the shelf, pre-composed CD of musical cues (a la De Wolf, Chappell, Carlin etc) written by named composers for use in media productions. Is this what developers mean too? If so, then this is very bad news for my future plans.

    Or do they mean sample \"libraries\" comprising of, say, a mix of samples from VSL, Spectrasonics etc to create a new sample set.

    If the latter, then fair enough. If the former, then it\'s insane and an utter disincentive. Someone tell me it isn\'t so.

    Thanks
    Heath

  2. #2

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    Unfortunately, it is so. But you only find that restriction on some libraries which have pre-mixed loop kind of stuff. It\'s just too easy for people to take some of these loops and pop them into some library. Next thing you know, you hear that loop all over the place, with the profits going to some big corporate music house. If a composer buys a bunch of loop libraries and tries to make a quick buck by pumping out a bunch of cues, simply by adding a couple things on top of the loop, it hurts everyone. And this happens all the time. Composers are paid terribly for these library cues and have no incentive to really make something excellent. So they make a few miserable bucks off the backs of some sample library and to the deterement of everyone else who bought the library and wants to use it as legitimate inspiration for a piece of music. Stormdrum has this restriction on the loop part of the library. If it didn\'t, within 3 months everyone would be saying\" I\'d use it if it weren\'t for the fact that I\'m hearing it on every commercial and low budget TV show.\" The good news is that the multisamples are so strong tin SD hat you can make your own loops that will be of the same quality as the loops in SD. And you can put this in any library, because you made it.

  3. #3

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    I actually think it would be good to keep library music sounding as cheap and bland as possible. (Sorry Heath!)I.E; You cant use EWQLSO, VSL, GOS, Spectrasonics, etc.

    It keeps us in a job and with the ability to roll out the big guns and really shine on a proper project.

  4. #4

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    Originally posted by Nick Phoenix:
    Unfortunately, it is so. But you only find that restriction on some libraries which have pre-mixed loop kind of stuff. It\'s just too easy for people to take some of these loops and pop them into some library. Next thing you know, you hear that loop all over the place, with the profits going to some big corporate music house. If a composer buys a bunch of loop libraries and tries to make a quick buck by pumping out a bunch of cues, simply by adding a couple things on top of the loop, it hurts everyone. And this happens all the time. Composers are paid terribly for these library cues and have no incentive to really make something excellent. So they make a few miserable bucks off the backs of some sample library and to the deterement of everyone else who bought the library and wants to use it as legitimate inspiration for a piece of music. Stormdrum has this restriction on the loop part of the library. If it didn\'t, within 3 months everyone would be saying\" I\'d use it if it weren\'t for the fact that I\'m hearing it on every commercial and low budget TV show.\" The good news is that the multisamples are so strong tin SD hat you can make your own loops that will be of the same quality as the loops in SD. And you can put this in any library, because you made it.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Right, well I\'m sorry Nick but that is absolutley bloody disgraceful.

    What you\'re saying is that these libraries are useless to anyone who isn\'t a hobbyist or an A line Hollywood composer who can afford to share residuals and/or fees with developers.

    The idea that to use a loop/sample in a commercial or a library track will cheapen the library even more than if it\'s heard in a mega-blockbuster is bull. Every man and his dog has heard Hans Zimmer use these famous loops and libraries and in some pretty bad movies too. Now I know why. HE can afford them.

    My god, so it\'s like hiring a session musician afterall, complete with re-use fees! I feel sick. What an idiot I\'ve been.

    You also seem to be saying that library composers are fast-buck merchants out to stick any old rubbish over a loop. Nick, that\'s not only generally untrue and insulting, it\'s also a brazen rationale. I, for one, have Metamorphosis and I think I\'m a half decent enough musician to make the thing groove to my beat.

    I will be writing in person to the licensing departments of all the libraries I own for specific clarifications.

    A bad hair day.
    Heath

  5. #5

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    Maybe I\'m misunderstanding something. The loops I have say it\'s fine to use them in a commerical production. What you CAN\'T do is create ANOTHER loop library using them.

    Am I reading you wrong? Are you saying they can\'t be used in commerical productions? Here\'s what Acid says:

    \"You are free to use the LFA in your own original compositions without restriction. Neither the LFA nor any portion thereof may be resold or redistributed as loops, except to the extent permitted under U.S. copyright law\"

  6. #6

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    I am confused.

    If I buy stormdrums and I am making lets say a commercial cd. Can I use stormdrums in them?

  7. #7

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    Nick

    (Deep breath)

    But thanks for the information.

    Luck
    Heath

    P.S. This may really have bolloxed things up for me! I am effing furious!

  8. #8
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    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    The license agreements for various sample libraries refer to restrictions on the use of their samples in \"music libraries\". Could anyone tell me exactly what this means?

    Heath,

    License Agreements vary from developer to developer.

    We do not have a restiction barring people from using our libraries in \"music libraries\". Our licensing agreement permits any \"reasonable musical purposes within musical compositions\"
    We adopt a more liberal interpretation and agree with your definition of music libraries as \"pre-composed CD of musical cues\" or musical compositions. The only objection we have is to re-use the sample sounds in any other commercial sample library.

    Gary Garritan

  9. #9

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    Gary

    Thanks for that clarification of your company\'s position. I\'ve been busily, and nervously, rechecking the licenses of my various libraries, including Sam, Spectrasonics, VSL etc. Being wary of ambiguous interpretations, I found that they all pretty much take the Garritan line... at least I think they do. I should have become a lawyer like momma wanted. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Only a couple of them, Xsample and PMI actually mention the \"library\" word, but in the context of a non-melodic, solo\'ed use of the samples.

    Robgb and Panzer might want to check their licenses, just to be sure. Everyone should.

    That was foolish of me. I nearly scared myself to death back there! Well, Nick Phoenix did anyway.

    So which sample libraries was Nick talking about? EWQL? Diva? Are there others?

    Can anyone supply a list?

    Thanks
    Heath

  10. #10

    Re: Samples in library music - please define "library"

    First of all. This kind of license agreement has been around for a while. You won\'t find it on Garritan libraries or EWQLSO or Rare Instruments or Sam Horns or anything except some drum loop/musical phrase libraries. Spectrasonics actually doesn\'t have it at all. It\'s up to you to read license agreements before you use a library. It\'s there for a very good reason, but you can buy other libraries if you don\'t like it. No one is saying that you can\'t use the stuff in a commercial or whatever. It says very specifically that you can\'t put it into a music library. That\'s music library not sample library. When you sell a cue to some big music library that is primarily some loop you got off a sample cd, you are taking advantage of the sample library producer. On the other hand, if you use the loop in a complex musical production and sell it to a music library that is another matter. No one is calling you a hack or a cheat.

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