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Topic: A New DivaX Demo from...

  1. #1

    A New DivaX Demo from...

    I thought I would risk the slings and arrows of the NS forum and post this DIVA Extended (DivaX) demo. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] The goal of the song \"Diva 8\" (link below) was to put Diva in a variety of musical backdrops while using the new DivaX as much as possible. In this song, Diva plays a lead and supporting roll in backgrounds ranging from string sections, full orchestra, percussion beds and so on. The song is very simple and triadic, letting Diva carry the main melodies, and at one point Diva provides counterpoint to clarinet. Actually, a lot of the structure is more like a pop song than otherwise, but I have always been an advocate of the rock n\' roll orchestra. Some have accused me of not letting the Diva breath, but virtual Diva\'s don\'t need air! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Actually, I was assuming two singers, and indeed at one subtle point, both Diva and DivaX are singing. I began with a goal of demonstrating various techniques, and ended up really enjoying what I was doing quite a bit. It became a fun song to do, and a nice break from the more dramatic militaristic stuff I had been doing recently.

    The human voice as a sample-based instrument is probably the hardest technical challenge in sampling technology. No other instrument is as expressive as the human voice. Trying to duplicate the attacks, bends, quavers, slurs, tones, vibrato, breathing etc., in a convincing way is a monumental task. Diva goes a long way towards this goal and now provides a good number of tools to get some good results for those willing to put some time and effort into Diva. Even in this song I was using the main instruments while also constructing things with bits and pieces of the provided material. For example, the intervals are a fixed length of time from attack to interval. However, you can use staccatos, track envelopes, sustains and technique to gain complete control over the intervals to make them do exactly what you want. Future material for Diva will further expand the possibilities. Meanwhile, Diva is a unique and useful tool.


  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    69 Lois Lane, Metropolis

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    Well, I like the background material, very nice arranging, mix sounds great...but now come the slings and arrows...

    I think Diva sorta works in the first 32 seconds or so. Even then, some of the transitions between the notes around the 20 sec mark are so painfully awkward it just screams sampled. After that, Diva just sticks out like a sore thumb. It often detracts from sections I otherwise enjoyed in the piece.

    I really want to like this library, too. But from what I\'ve heard in all these demos, it\'s been totally misused time and time again as something that can carry a melody line. And so far, it can\'t.

    I don\'t know if it\'s the slow attacks or something else altogether, but I\'ve yet to hear a track that doesn\'t sound like Diva was forced upon it as much as I\'d like to say otherwise. The Diva lines are always lacking in dynamics, expression, emotion, and the note to note transitions...eek! I dunno. Anyone in the mood to break out the slings and arrows to counter my slings and arrows knock yourself out.

  3. #3

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    Hello Dwdonehoo

    Thanks for sharing this.

    It continues to strike me that the vocal in Diva is that of a light, lyric soprano and not a full operatic soprano.

    You piece, although very good, is too dense and too heavily textured to support what is a rather delicate vocal sound. The result is that Diva collapses under the weight. To be fair, I think this is a mistake commited by every composer who has so far demoed Diva.

    Why can\'t anyone write a more delicate piece for this library? If they did, I have a feeling Diva would really begin to work.

    There\'s still nothing else out there like it.

    Thanks again and good luck

  4. #4

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    hi doyle,

    really like your composition and it sounds really cool but i have to agree with hudson there.

    when i first heard that a library is released with a diva singing i expected more than just \"ahhh ahhh aaaaaah\".

    i mean, with all respects to the diva herself and her voice, but i think the note transitions and the move inbetween the notes are still not right.

    no human being sings a soft \"fade out\" rest between two notes and on diva it happends all the time. i think also it happends that the voice even gets more dynamic in between notes, like when the voice is going up or down. the most dynamic point is in between while going from e.g. a fith up from \"aahh\" to \"ohhhh\".

    i think the greatest lack of diva is the \"in-between\" notes which makes it soooo important to feature a human voice. if you have strings or other instruments you can live with that problem, i mean vsl already did it for the strings, but on an string ensemble i think it\'s not as important than to a human voice. ...and with diva-x i espected that this problem would be solved.

    anyway, cool composition [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  5. #5

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    Personally, I can see what Hudson is saying. But I think that the primary reason it seems sampled is simply because, as dwdonehoo already admitted, the diva is never allowed to breathe! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] This may seem trivial at first, but one must remember that humans, without any concious effort, have become accustomed to hearing this kind of music and we have come to expect subtle things like breathing points. I doubt many of us conciously take note of the points in a song where the singer breathes. But we certainly notice it when those points aren\'t there.

    I think if the diva was allowed to breathe at some natural points in the composition, it would go a long way toward being convincing.

    Even if you do assume two singers, the fact is still that the average person listening isn\'t going to get the subconcious \"cues\" that they\'re used to hearing such as short breaks between vocal lines.

  6. #6

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    Not sure I want to enter the fray here, but I guess I\'ll comment anyway.
    First off, nice composition Doyle, and to the maker of the Diva library, I repect your efforts to create Diva.
    With that said, I think that from everything I\'ve heard from this library so far, it seems extremely limited in sound and as a result, most demos are written within the limitations of the library. I don\'t think that this library is capable of producing something believable that isn\'t buried in the background as a sustained note here and there. So in it\'s usage alone, it seems too limited to be anything but an occasional pad type filler. I have used SOV quite a bit for solo soprano mock-ups, and occasionally in a final, and I must say that they hold up quite well as compared to Diva. With all due respect to the developer on this one, I\'d have to say it\'s well worth checking out SOV before you dive into Diva.
    Again, this is totally based on the demos that I\'ve heard on this forum and at the diva site. I haven\'t used the library myself, so take this with a grain of salt. It\'s not meant to be a Diva bashing, just an opinion. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  7. #7

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    We all would like to control Ms Diva\'s voice in realtime. Tell her when to breath and when not to. I\'d be great to hook a humanish LFO to her nice vibrato to. Also, if she could hold a infinite decay and with PW we can pitch her voice everywhere at perfect formant. From any point, direction, level, color whatever. That in voice like transitions. I don\'t think that can be done using recorded audio. It takes a monster sampler/synth thang not invented yet. Until then, we have to use with caution or exaggerate to Hip-Hop.

    Sorry for bad spelling.(Swede!)


  8. #8

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    I think all Diva needs is true legato via sampled intervals, and it\'ll be one of the hottest libraries out there. The toughest part of a voice library is making notes sound connected.

    I agree with the other comments posted. Doyle\'s composition is great, but Diva is too drowned out by the music I think. Diva needs to be more solo and more up front. Plus, Diva was always intended to be for slow passages... that\'s how it was advertised when it went into production. I don\'t think ANY vocal library out there can sound good at a quick tempo... unless, like I said, it\'s got sampled intervals. Then you\'re ready for anything.

  9. #9

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    I agree that with more tools and material, Diva would be even more useful. As I pointed out, the human voice as a sample based instrument is a lofty goal, and the ability to get a life-like connection between notes would aid in the reality of the instrument. (Yeah, I agree I could have helped the \'reality\' cause a bit more with a breathing pacing, but if there is any fault, it is with my technique. This was a first effort with DivaX, and I was going for a particular effect.) I dismiss any comments that suggests Diva[X] is not already a useful instrument. Others will take the time and effort of technique to do things we have yet to imagine. I do not agree that Diva cannot carry in a more up-tempo environment. Between my two demos with Diva, I have put Diva in a wide variety of dynamics (which was partly the point) and it carried them all nicely in my opinion. How successfully I did that I will leave others to judge.
    One other thing: SOV is a very good lib, and its phrases serve as a nice model for the voice as an instrument. It is also $499 plus tax and shipping. For far less money there is Diva, it is still developing and really, there is nothing else like it.
    So far, an interesting discussion.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    69 Lois Lane, Metropolis

    Re: A New DivaX Demo from...

    That\'s the exact opposite of what I was saying...Diva needs to be buried, or seriously layered with other instruments. It just doesn\'t cut it on it\'s own. The more upfront it is, the more obvious it\'s shortcomings have been in these demos.

    Originally posted by MDesigner:

    I agree with the other comments posted. Doyle\'s composition is great, but Diva is too drowned out by the music I think. Diva needs to be more solo and more up front.
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