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Topic: Grandioso - need more resonance

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  1. #1

    Grandioso - need more resonance

    Can anyone suggest how I might get more
    resonance when using the sustain pedal
    on the Grandioso piano? I love the basic sound of the samples but wish I could hear more ring when using the sustain pedal
    for solo piano playing. I\'m using Halion
    as my software sampler. I\'m using the
    compressed piano program as opposed to the Classic.

    TIA,

    Tom

  2. #2

    Re: Grandioso - need more resonance

    Same problem here with the Bosie Imperial Grand. The only way I found is to use the pedal up samples with samples of piano resonance. Cannot work in a live context tho...

  3. #3

    Re: Grandioso - need more resonance

    This is a difficult question. The Grandioso patches 4 layer, 8 layer with sustain and the virtuoso patches all have actual sustained notes that were recorded. So what you hear is what it sounds like with that piano.

    Do you miss resonance in the individual samples or do you refer to lack of resonance when several notes are played with the pedal held down? In the latter case a solution may be to adjust the release stage of the amplitude envelope so that notes will ring out longer.

    In the first case you can adjust the sustain layer\'s overall volume. Just lower all non-sustained layers with 3 to 6 dB. This will give more volume to the sustained layers.

    Another idea would be to adjust the sustain layers velocity crossing value so that the louder sustain sampler are adressed even when you play softer. This way the samples that have more overtones by nature (as they were struck harder) will produce more \"ringing\" but will not sound louder.
    I can think of several more ways to adjust the samples but this is my first idea.
    In case you want to exchange further ideas and discuss possiblities feel free to contact me (contact details under the copyright info in the cd-booklet).

    Michiel Post

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Grandioso - need more resonance

    Originally posted by wolfetho:
    Can anyone suggest how I might get more
    resonance when using the sustain pedal
    on the Grandioso piano?
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Tom,

    I think you are actually wishing for more sustain, not more resonance.

    The reason the Grandioso has less **sustain** than some instruments, is that it is not mic\'ed at a point blank range. Therefore, you hear the same amount of sustain a person would hear seated several feet from the piano.

    Most sampled pianos are mic\'ed such that you hear a sound more like the one you would hear seated at the piano, or even with your head inside the lid!!

    This is a popular way to mic pianos, especially in a pop context, and is certainly not without merit. But that mic\'ing scheme is actually LESS resonant (resonance being the sound of the ENTIRE instrument vs. a close-up of the strings) and quite a bit more sustained than a piano actually sounds from a listener\'s perspective.

    I\'m not saying your desire is invalid at all. Just that getting there with the Grandioso may be somewhat difficult, because Michiel\'s sound design was expressly conceived to avoid an unnatural level of sustain. A sample I\'d call \"super sustained\" is the Malmsjo Acoustic Grand by ArtVista. The Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial sits somewhere in between. The GigaPiano included with your software is also quite sustained.

  5. #5

    Re: Grandioso - need more resonance

    Bruce:

    Good point! I guess I am really talking about more sustain. I\'m trying to acheive a sound
    like Bill Evans or Dave Grusin for solo jazz
    piano playing. I\'m looking for more sustaining of notes together which I guess as you describe, would be as if your listening
    to the piano with your head under the lid or sitting at the piano. Now, it just sounds a little too \"dry.\" Somewhere In between the Bosendorfer and the Gigapiano would be perfect. As Michiel Post suggests, I will try adjusting the sustain in Halion.

    Thanks,

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: Grandioso - need more resonance

    I experimented with extra compression for sustained samples on the sample level.
    You can easily compress all samples in GRANDIOSO individually to get a Malmsjo piano effect. If you work on a Mac use Bias Peak batch processor or Barbabatch. On PC wavelab or SoudForge all have batchprocessors. They allow you to process all samples in a folder including all it\'s sub-folders in one go with a compressor plug-in. All plug-ins will do: VST or DirectX, (Peak offers even TDM if you have ProTools hardware).

    Export all the samples from the GRANDIOSO Steinway D gig to a work area on your hard drive using the export samples-command in the giga editor. They will be placed in folders just as in the original gig file. Experiment with a compressor setting at 2:1 or higher, a 200-400 ms attack and a rather low treshold. This will dramaticly flatten the envelope of the samples, making it sustain very strong. When all samples are done you replace all samples in the gig file (folder by folder) with the replace command in the giga editor. Save the gig as a new instrument. Takes you an hour or so to do this.
    Michiel Post

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Grandioso - need more resonance

    Since you\'re working in Halion, you may also just want to run a compressor on your piano output. Depending on how hard you clamp down, you can get varied amounts of sustain.

    Really, this is exactly how it would be done with an acoustic piano anyway, so it may actually get a more \"Evans-like\" result than doing the compression on the sample-level.

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