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Topic: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

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  1. #1

    PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    Hi,

    I just bought the PMI Grandioso Steinway B, because after listening to the mp3 files and after reading most of the discussions in this forum I was convinced that it must be THE sample library. Now, that I own it, I\'m a little bit disappointed, because compared to the EastWest Steinway B I had before, it sounds kind of dull to me - no ambience, if you know what I mean. So, my question is, does anyone has the same impression or am I just doing something wrong? As to date, I like the EW library better, but I also hear a big difference between the PMI mp3 files and the actual samples. I will appreciate any help very much.
    Thanks a lot,

    Duke

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    The PMI Steinway is a Steinway D, not a Steinway B. I used to play Steinway B\'s in practice rooms. In my opinion they have a warmer sound which is sometimes preferable, but are not capable of projecting the power or the range that a Steinway D can. I have both of these libraries and I must say I don\'t think the EW Steinway B can touch Michiel Post\'s Instrument. The number of velocity layers makes the instrument so much more playable. I wonder, have you added the updates from his web page? It is certainly possible that you prefer the sound of the Steinway B over the Steinway D, but in terms of sampling quality I find the PMI to be leaps and bounds above the EW. Just my opinion.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    Originally posted by dukedroese:
    Hi,

    I just bought the PMI Grandioso Steinway B, because after listening to the mp3 files and after reading most of the discussions in this forum I was convinced that it must be THE sample library. Now, that I own it, I\'m a little bit disappointed, because compared to the EastWest Steinway B I had before, it sounds kind of dull to me - no ambience, if you know what I mean.

    Duke
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">A couple of tips:

    First, it\'s definitely a darker sounding piano than the EastWest, but there is plenty of high end there. If you need to boost it, it takes EQ very well.

    Second, there\'s a whole other set of \"distant\" room samples in there, and a .gsp file setup which will load both sets of samples on two linked ports. You can alter the balance between the two sets in the DSP Station, giving you a really wide range of ambient control.

    The EastWest Steinway is both closer and brighter mic\'ed, which can sound larger when you\'re just playing solo, but can be difficult to punch through a mix. Actually, the darker and slightly more distant recording of the Post Steinway tends to punch through much harder in my experience.

    Give it some time, and really put it through its various paces. I think you\'ll discover that there\'s a lot there, and that your first impression may be replaced by a smile.

    If not, then (I know you\'ll love hearing this [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) you may want to investigate the Bardstown Bosendorfer, which would be exactly the opposite but equally lovely direction in relationship to your current EastWest Steinway B. It\'s both brighter and more immediately in your face, and for someone who is looking for that characteristic, you won\'t find a better example of it anywhere.

    The great thing is that there are so many wonderful pianos to choose from. The scary ($$$) thing is that there are so many great pianos to choose from....

  4. #4

    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    I second Bruce\'s .gsp comment. Give that a try and you will find a lot of varibility (depending on your mix/ears). Good luck.

  5. #5

    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    Thanks everybody soooooooooo much for their comment. I will take the time and try everything out as recommended. Thanks again and again!!!

    Duke

  6. #6

    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    dukedroese: I agree with you 100%. I also bought the PMI Grandioso based on reviews in this forum, and was also totally disappointed...a big waste of money! The sound is anemic and dull. After spending hundreds of dollars, we shouldn’t have to “work with it” that much. Heck, Rob Elliott even implies that it might be your ear! Not true.

    I unloaded it from GS, and bought Bardstown Bosendorfer. Right out of the box: Beautiful, full, bright and expressive piano. I am amazed how lovely this piano is. I love it. Too bad it took me the EW Steinway and PMI Grandioso mistakes to find out about the Bosendorfer.

  7. #7

    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    Hello.Guitar man.
    Why don\'t we stop posting those kind of comments on thins forum. Consindering respects for those who all develop our library, I think it is not the right way to express your experiments.
    As you read the previous posts, some people found out Grandioso is wonderful and usable.If you did not like the sound, I am sorry but the it is the matter of tastes. But you still can change sounds to be your way like Bruce does.

    Please think about why you can make music this way, and who is giving us those opportunities, you will never be able to post comments like this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    Originally posted by guitar_man:
    dukedroese: I agree with you 100%. I also bought the PMI Grandioso based on reviews in this forum, and was also totally disappointed...a big waste of money!
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well, I\'d disagree there. You want a bright piano, clearly, and Kip\'s Bosie fit the bill for your tastes perfectly. But you are talking about taste, not quality. The Steinway is actually very well recorded, every bit as well recorded as the Bosendorfer in a different way. It is anything but dull and anemic. It is just not what you personally desired.

    There\'s a big difference in that and \"a big waste of money.\" But I\'m glad you like the Bosendorfer, because it too is a fine instrument.

    I\'d be willing to bet you\'re eventually going to find a use for a darker sounding piano, and you\'ll open the Steinway on a lark and find that it fits like a glove. I know that I use both the Steinway and the Bosendorfer all the time, depending on the context. They have very different applications.

  9. #9

    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    I don\'t have this piano, but want to say that my own experience with pianos is often to dislike the sound at first, and then after some experiments find settings that make it sing. (After all, the samples can only be set up to sound good on the developer\'s keyboard, monitors, headphones, and to react to his or her touch, so it\'s natural to want to tweak the samples to your own needs and tastes.)

    Obviously, a loss pass filter and adjusting the velocity settings to one\'s own preferences may help. (I almost always have to raise the setting for the pp layer. I guess I\'m heavy handed.)And a very little reverb, trying all the default Giga reverbs and tweaking each. You can of course save the reverb setting you want.

    And probably most important, at least in my limited experience, is getting the amplitude right. The lower the volume in playing digital samples, the less \"accuracy.\" Playing through decent monitors may help, since you can move them away somewhat and play at a higher level than you might want through headphones. I use headphones, but connect through lightpipe to a Fostex VF-16 digital multitrack that acts as an additional mixer, giving me more control over amplitude.

    I also find that I can judge the quality of a sample better when I am listening than when I\'m playing.

    Sorry if you know all of this already, and I\'m sorry for your experience with the new Post piano, which sounds great in the demos. Maybe this would be a good place for people to post their favorite tweaks for the Grandioso? Could Michiel weigh in here with some information about how the the sound in the demos was achieved?

  10. #10

    Re: PMI Grandioso Steinway B

    Oops. Low pass filter, I meant.

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