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Topic: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

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  1. #1

    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Hi Jarrod

    Is this for live use or recording? The two scenarios have quite different requirements.

  2. #2

    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Primarily recording. . .

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Loaded question!!!

    Here\'s my best spin...

    First, you picked a couple of good ones to compare. I have used both in recording and live applications successfully. In fact, these are probably the two most live-friendly pianos out there...they\'ll both project in a rhythm section without taking over, and they are both a gas to play.

    Similarities:

    Both are fine recordings, well mapped, and fine sampled instruments. Both are BIG pianos. Both have release-triggered resonance samples. Both have a number of articulations designed to cover lite uses, and both are well supported by their authors.

    Differences:

    The Bosie is closer mic\'ed, a little more \"sparkly,\" and a bit more sustained. I tend to use it on pop projects and for scoring type work where I want the piano to have that sound of being played with aggressive force but not sitting right at the front of the mix.

    The Steinway is more distantly mic\'ed, a little more resonant than sustained, and a little darker overall. I tend to use it for playing soloistic piano, for jazz, and for scoring where I want the piano to be the primary solo voice, up front in the mix. The Steinway also has a second set of room-reflection samples, which can be layered on another port and mixed into the overall sound. You need a fast processor and a good speedy disk drive to run it in that configuration--it will peg the polyphony meter and keep it there if you\'re really pounding away!!

    Anyway, I\'d be hard pressed to recommend one over the other, because sure as I did, your taste would be different than mine. What I will say is this: I have found that I reach for these two pianos, and the Malmsjo Acoustic Grand by ArtVista most often. The Malmsjo is a little more specialized instrument, it\'s a historic piano, and lacks the dynamic range of a huge concert Bosie or Steinway. But it has probably the sweetest sustaining high tessitura I\'ve ever heard...the notes take forever to ramp down. Good thing or bad thing, depending on the application.

    Hope that helps. At least that puts some of my observations on the table.

  4. #4

    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Thanks Bruce!

    I appreciated your thorough response. I guess it was a rather loaded question, since, even I have had to switch concert grands during intermission simply because the next set sounded better with either a more metallic or darker muted tone. I guess my primary concern was the quality of the samples and the piano\'s tone. You answered both, and I think I will end up with the Steinway since a lot of my recordings put the piano center stage. Plus, isn\'t Michiel Post\'s recorded with 2 additional velocity layers per note? Thanks again Bruce.

    Jarrod Radnich
    www.jarrodradnich.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Originally posted by Jarrod Radnich:
    Thanks Bruce!

    I appreciated your thorough response. I guess it was a rather loaded question, since, even I have had to switch concert grands during intermission simply because the next set sounded better with either a more metallic or darker muted tone. I guess my primary concern was the quality of the samples and the piano\'s tone. You answered both, and I think I will end up with the Steinway since a lot of my recordings put the piano center stage. Plus, isn\'t Michiel Post\'s recorded with 2 additional velocity layers per note? Thanks again Bruce.

    Jarrod Radnich
    www.jarrodradnich.com
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You\'re welcome.

    You know, as familiar as I am with that piano, I don\'t really know how many of the layers are truly discrete recorded layers. I just crashed the editor, ($@%$^#$%!) so I can\'t peek right now. Michiel does a lot of virtual layering, EQ\'ing existing layers to bridge gaps, etc. Some of the instruments have up to sixteen \"virtual\" layers.

    I\'d call it a front row recital hall perspective...the mics were actually closer than that, but mics hear a bit more distantly for a given distance than ears.

    Whatever you choose, I hope you enjoy it. Both are fine products, but in this case I\'d probably concur that the Steinway is a bit better fit for your described use.

  6. #6

    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    I\'m looking at a Gigasampler solution for a 2nd piano
    in a live performance setting (Giga created piano in
    tandem with a real piano whatever that happens to
    be at whatever locale) - 2 pianos 8 hands.

    That\'s 20-24 keys being depressed at one time max, with pedal.

    Question: of the two samples (Bosen. and Grandioso), am I really in serious trouble running out of voices, especially on long passages with the pedal down? We play basically transcriptions of orchestral works and tremolos are frequently used to mimic the strings. I am concerned that this kind of playing will just consume even the 160 voices Giga160 is suppose to maintain.

  7. #7

    Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Thanks everyone for all of your wisdom and expertise. . . this forum will live forever if people like you keep helping people like me [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

    ANYWAY- I am (humbly) a professional Jazz and Classical pianist (also composer. . . but who isn\'t on this forum?)looking for, none other, than the best sampled piano on the market. I am very critical when it comes to pianos, and my research has led me to the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand or the new Michiel Post\'s Perfect Steinway (Grandioso D)that just came out. I value your experienced opinions and would appreciate some advice.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Bosendorfer Imperial VS Steinway Grandioso D

    Originally posted by JohnLPoole:
    I\'m looking at a Gigasampler solution for a 2nd piano
    in a live performance setting (Giga created piano in
    tandem with a real piano whatever that happens to
    be at whatever locale) - 2 pianos 8 hands.

    That\'s 20-24 keys being depressed at one time max, with pedal.

    Question: of the two samples (Bosen. and Grandioso), am I really in serious trouble running out of voices, especially on long passages with the pedal down? We play basically transcriptions of orchestral works and tremolos are frequently used to mimic the strings. I am concerned that this kind of playing will just consume even the 160 voices Giga160 is suppose to maintain.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You\'re right, it will.

    However, GigaStudio has pretty sophisticated note-stealing capabilities. As long as you use a currently \"fast\" processor (like an AMD 2200+ with one of the KT-333 chipsets and PC2700 RAM or a fast P4 with equally fast RAM), coupled with a fast hard drive (the Western Digital 7200 RPM drives with the 8 mb cache are excellent for the $), you should be able to peg the polyphony meter at 160 and hold it there with very few audible artifacts.

    If you\'re using a weaker overall system, you may experience more artifacts.

    Also, you would surely NOT want to run the layered-ambient version of the Post Steinway in a four-hand scenario.

    Good luck.

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