• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Topic: What is good latency?

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1
    SecondPost
    Guest

    What is good latency?

    My input/output latency in Cubase is 7ms... is that good or bad? Sometimes I think that I notice a slight delay, but I might just be imagining things. What latency do you people get?

    And if this is considered off-topic, I would also like to ask which is better, GPO or EWQLSO Silver.

  2. #2

    Re: What is good latency?

    IMHO no latency is \"good latency\". But 7 isn\'t too bad. I get about that with my giga machine, and way less running EXS and Kontakt through Logic on my mac.

    J-

  3. #3

    Re: What is good latency?

    7ms is good. My latency in Cubase with Audigy 2 is even better than 7ms but it depends on whether the plug can handle it or not. Unfortunately, the Aark 20/20 from Aardvark (which is the oldest multiple out card for Giga) that I use for Gigastudio is not so fast. With its GSIF drivers only reaching a topspeed of 12ms or more, the delay is pretty apparent, especially when compared to fast the ASIO drivers of Audigy 2. I have always wondered whether the newer Giga compatible audio cards made any progress in regard to latency, or if the latency is simply inherent to the nature of the (Giga-) beast.

    ------------
    Alex Cremers

  4. #4

    Re: What is good latency?

    Don\'t forget that there are other delay factors involved, such as the midi latencies (keyboard out, midi-port in). The total sum of delays, from keypress to the first waves reaching your ears, can be significantly higher than 7 msec, which accounts for the noticeable effect. 7 or 6 msec is quite OK for soundcards, IMO, and in itself is really hardly noticeable. It corresponds with sound traveling a distance of 2 meters! What about the conductor-to-orchestra latency [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    If you have a multi-PC setup you also have to sum the latencies of the Gigastudio and sequencer soundcards...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    5,755

    Re: What is good latency?

    Originally posted by Alexcremers:
    7ms is good. My latency in Cubase with Audigy 2 is even better than 7ms but it depends on whether the plug can handle it or not. Unfortunately, the Aark 20/20 from Aardvark (which is the oldest multiple out card for Giga) that I use for Gigastudio is not so fast. With its GSIF drivers only reaching a topspeed of 12ms or more, the delay is pretty apparent, especially when compared to fast the ASIO drivers of Audigy 2. I have always wondered whether the newer Giga compatible audio cards made any progress in regard to latency, or if the latency is simply inherent to the nature of the (Giga-) beast.

    ------------
    Alex Cremers
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">No, shouldn\'t be at all. In fact, Giga\'s latency performance is outstanding. BUT...it\'s all about the quality of the GSIF driver.

    Does your driver have a buffer-size setting for GSIF? I run a 64k buffer on my Laylas, and the latency in that setting is super, super low.

  6. #6

    Re: What is good latency?

    Although there are some freaks of nature than can feel it, 7ms is not too bad. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Anyway, chocothrox, with the 1.5s problem in cubase, check your asio settings. If you use the basic asio settings, it can be like that. However, if you can set it to the asio driver for your audio card, it should get better. No garantee but this is usually the problem when you hear of 1.5 sec latency like that. Always try to use the audio card asio driver. In your list of available asio drivers, hopefully you will see one with the name of your card to choose. Hope this helps. This may be old news to you perhaps. However, that is tottally unacceptable latency and I know it can be better.
    Dave

  7. #7

    Re: What is good latency?

    Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:

    Does your driver have a buffer-size setting for GSIF? I run a 64k buffer on my Laylas, and the latency in that setting is super, super low.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">No, oddly enough, it doesn\'t. It must be a fixed setting because Aarkmanager (the software for my audio card) doesn\'t even talk about GSIF drivers, nor is there any visualization of GSIF drivers on any of the pages. And that\'s funny because Nemesys practically build their \'Gigasampler\' software around the Aarvark Aark 20/20 [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] .

    ------------
    Alex Cremers

  8. #8

    Re: What is good latency?

    It kind\'a depends on the applications/plugs used but with cubase -> kontakt 1.5.2 I can play with 3.5ms latency using my Echo Indigo soundcard.
    The 7ms setting plays fine for me too, although when switching to 3.5ms I notice it plays more direct.

  9. #9

    Re: What is good latency?

    Pay attention to the fact that in many applications the latency displayed is \"per audio buffer\" and a minimum of 2 or 3 buffers is needed.
    The german \"Keyboards\" magazine (which I am subscribed to) which is one of the references magazines in germany unfortunately often confuses latency numbers too and leads users into believing they are getting eg. 3msec while in practice it\'s 6msec because the apps they talk specify latencies per buffer and not the total latency.
    Same for many soundcard drivers. For example the control panel of the RME audio cards.
    see this pic:
    http://www.rme-audio.com/images/hdsp/hdsp52_set.gif

    The german keyboards magazine \"we were able to run this card with latencies down to 1.5msec\", and routinely they say we tested a VST plugin with 1.5msec latency on this card although it produces dropouts when you use more than 50% of the CPU....

    In reality 3msec (2 x 1.5msec) latency was not stable.
    Then they continued saying for stable performance usually 6msec are required (= effective latency 12msec).
    Which is not that earthshattering. But it\'s expected since Windows is not a performant OS, especially when it comes to real time performance (without giga-like low level hacks).

    So dear audio apps users/musicians pay attention to what I said.
    Marketing depts tends to cut effective latencies in half because it\'s sexy.
    Like the new ad of GS3 \"thise version provides even lower latencies ...\". Nice dream: running at less than 64samples per fragment makes the DSP and resamplig algorithms, inefficient thus using much more CPU.
    Latencies lower than let\'s say 3-5msec do not bring any benefits since 1meter distance from the speaker means an added latency of 3msec.

    One test you can perform is to output a signal from your soundcard and then record it back via the input.
    If you look at the original track and the recorder track you should be able to measure the latency in samples.

    Usually the math you must do to get the pure audio latency is (assuming the system uses 2 buffers like ASIO):
    output latency = numer of samples / samplerate x 1000 x 2/3 (the number is in msec)
    (this is a an approximation because it does not take into account latency of the A/D and D/A converters.

    Anyway if you take the above number and add 2msec (1.1msec midi note-on latency, plus a bit for the DAC) then you should get the real keystroke-on-midikeyboard-to-audio-out latency.

    Anyone willing to do some tests on their systems and post the number here ? (but please post the latency setting in your audio app too so one can figure out if the app is giving latency numbers in terms of total latency or per buffer latency).

    cheers,
    Benno
    http://www.linuxsampler.org

  10. #10

    Re: What is good latency?

    The latency that counts of course would be from keyboard to speaker. One good test is to use a keyboard that plays back its own sounds, theoretically with very quick latency and record that output and the output of your computer playback (This is for sample playback of course) to hard disk and then measure the difference between the peaks in an audio editing program. This is a simple low tech way to check on real world latency differences. You can then compare various programs and settings.
    Dave

Go Back to forum

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •