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Topic: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

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  1. #1

    WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    Maybe I woke up in a bad mood this morning or it\'s just the mentallity of some people on this board (see UOP/ Ultimate Timpani post)

    I can not for the life of me understand why people complain about the demos of Dan\'s woodwinds on his site!?!? This is just my opinion BUT as a person who sits in professional symphony almost everyday of his life I can tell you that these ww\'s are dead on.

    Have you listened to the Romeo and Juliet demo? Pull it up and then pull up an original recording and compare the two.

    Bruce\'s demo is also VERY good. This nails the Holst dead on.

    I can\'t remeber if Dan still has the \"Planets\" demo I did but again....it\'s dead on.

    {OK at this point I realize I\'m on a rant so just bear with me}

    It just makes me REALLY mad sometimes when I see amatures (please don\'t take offense at that it\'s just a legit label) say something sucks when they don\'t know any better.

    There are reasons why you hear Dan\'s, Mine, Gary\'s, Kips, etc. sounds on TV every night......THEY WORK!!!!! JUST LEARN HOW TO USE THEM

    Ok rant over...I\'m going to soak my head in a vat of cold ice water. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Donnie

  2. #2

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    Originally posted by Rooftop:
    I\'m another one that thinks the demos on the site are subpar (well, not quite subpar, as that\'s an overstatement. But I know they can do better seeing as these are official demos. I liked dandeanbrass.mp3, btw... though I don\'t recall what it\'s from, and it\'s driving me crazy! I hate it when my mind goes blank. The Romeo and Juliet winds one was nice, too).
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I don\'t know about the woodwind samples (haven\'t listend the demos in a long while) but the brass samples are superb. Imparticular the dandeanbrass.mp3 (from Dvorak New World Symphony - Rooftop) is an excellent example. As a trumpeter, I work at Chetham\'s School of Music and on playing the demo to the Head of Brass (Former Principal Trumpet of the Halle Orchestra for 17 years!) he was rendered speechless and couldn\'t believe it was sequenced.

    Adrian

  3. #3

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    Not hindered by any level of professionalism, I cannot help thinking of the redish colors of http://www.classicalarchives.com, instead of thinking of a real orchestra, when I listen to Bruce\'s WW\'s demo. Sounds like some kind of pipe-organ GM patch, driven straight from a publid domain Midi file. Very bad service for Dan\'s otherwise great products.

    Peter / Emano
    Full time \"Amature\"

  4. #4

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    sadly, I agree.

    and yet I am a happy customer especially the strings

  5. #5

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    It sounds at some points that the sequence is quantized. In my opinion, quantizing a sequence is a big no no, and should be forbidden, except in some percussive aspects. I was listening to the real Eb Holst piece from Kazaa, and I\'m not sure what but you can tell instantly from real and fake. If we can pinpoint exactly what seperates it, we could go much further. But it seems that people are just recording samples with different articulations and not really considering what makes them sound real in a mix. I may be just ranting, but this is my opinion.

  6. #6

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    Of course the major issue here is, that the Holst Intermezzo demo (twice on the demo page) is much too stuffed, busy, etc, and that all the elements are competing for your attention, including the \"midi-ness\", the quantization, the lack of expression curves, etc.

    Check out the much more open XSample (www.xsample.de) demos, which are sooo much better in selling single instrument libraries.

    And, of course, this is about demos, not libraries. I think Dan\'s stuff is among the best we can get.

  7. #7

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    \"I can not for the life of me understand why people complain about the demos of Dan\'s woodwinds on his site!?!? \"

    Because they don\'t like them?

    \"Have you listened to the Romeo and Juliet demo?\"

    I thought it sounded very nice.

    \"Bruce\'s demo is also VERY good. This nails the Holst dead on.\"

    It sounded like a lot of work, but it reminded me of demos of E-mu Virtuoso 2000 ROMpler; now and again it seemed to veer into an electronic collage.

    \"It just makes me REALLY mad sometimes when I see amatures (please don\'t take offense at that it\'s just a legit label) say something sucks when they don\'t know any better.\"

    It\'s a \'legit\' description when it\'s not constantly being used pejoratively (and not as a \'label\'); the exact sense in which you use it here, there and everywhere. If you think Bruce\'s Holst is \'dead on\' you won\'t see me paying to see your orchestra, professional or not. I absolutely don\'t want to disparage Bruce\'s work here because he\'s one of the best, most informative contributers: but it is most certainly not \'dead on\'. While I might think I\'d died and gone to heaven if I produced such work, it certainly wouldn\'t open my wallet as a prospective customer; it raises questions rather than providing answers. There is a difference between fine work and an effective sales tool.

    \"There are reasons why you hear Dan\'s, Mine, Gary\'s, Kips, etc. sounds on TV every night......THEY WORK!!!!! JUST LEARN HOW TO USE THEM\"

    But I thought you were ranting about \'amatures\' not liking the demos? How do they learn to use the demos? And if you\'re refering to users not being able to use the samples; isn\'t that what they\'re saying in the first place? That they listened to demos made by people who evidently CAN use the samples but still they find the demos unconvincing?

    When people criticize demos they\'re not talking absolutes. The relationship between perceived quality, price, and the various contracts enforced on buyers comes into play.

    I love Dan Dean\'s strings; for $100 they are marvelous. If his woodwinds were also $100 I suspect you wouldn\'t hear so much \'criticism\' (although I haven\'t seen much of the criticism you mention). If buyers could return purchases, you also wouldn\'t hear so much criticism, because it wouldn\'t matter any longer.

    And we can also choose Xsample or Miroslav or many others that sound just as good or better in the demos.

    If a lot of people think a given set of demos is sub-standard, the developer (if he actually wants to maximize sales) might consider taking the time to produce more demos that prospective buyers might prefer, or he could keep the demos and lower the price (or have it lowered for him by lack of demand - which could be what\'s happening with the DD WW and brass, as the price seems to get discounted more and more in various outlets). For $100 per library, I doubt you\'d hear any criticism at all, but if the solo string library were $400-$500 there would be griping.

    Of course, you could always just shout and scream that the demos ARE good, and the prospective customers are all just too stupid and untalented to realize?

    But maybe you\'re onto something with the labeling? I noticed that now we can \'rate\' each other. Perhaps instead of just rating, and producing an artificial hierarchy, we could get little labels attached to our names; maybe little yellow stars, or pink triangles? Then you wouldn\'t even have to guess who the \'amatures\' were, you could just write them off by looking at the label. We could even split off separate sites, and the professional site members could be given the ability to throw spitballs at the \'amatures\'?

    \"Ok rant over...I\'m going to soak my head in a vat of cold ice water. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] \"

    OK. But not for more than ten minutes at a stretch :-)

    You are such fun Donnie; keep those rants coming.

    Adrian: Did you ever play any other libraries at Chetham\'s? I suspect that many libraries out there would elicit the same reaction from people who haven\'t heard what\'s going on in the \'gigaworld\'. All of these libraries sound excellent to me; quite amazing. Now if only they\'d get the prices down, provide a return policy, and cut it out with the ball & chain copyright schemes, an industry might flourish.

    --------------------
    Chetham\'s School of Music exists to educate exceptionally gifted young musicians and guarantees a fine career as a shop assistant for 95% of its graduates

    (sorry Adrian, couldn\'t help myself)

  8. #8

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    --------------------
    Chetham\'s School of Music exists to educate exceptionally gifted young musicians and guarantees a fine career as a shop assistant for 95% of its graduates

    (sorry Adrian, couldn\'t help myself)
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Dang, z6:

    That was a bit cruel...I\'m surprised you didnt exacerbate all over the word GIFTED...

    Speaking of quantizing, is there an effective method for unquantizing samples? For example, I use a score editor and then transfer the score to cubase...its all aligned so neat but sounds like a clock...interested in how to loosen it up w/o massive accelerandos and temp changes etc everywhere

  9. #9

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    [quote]Originally posted by composer22:
    [qb]--------------------
    z6:

    That was a bit cruel...I\'m surprised you didnt exacerbate all over the word GIFTED...
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well, I\'m not such a believer in \'specialist\' schools. I think they often take advantage of \'hopeful\' parents at the expense of the future of many children.

    Sure, they look great when they\'re shown on TV with all those \'gifted\' kids playing wonderful music; but only a tiny minority ever \'make it\'.

    What they don\'t tell the parents is that if your kid isn\'t playing Carnegie Hall by the time s/he arrives at music school, s/he probably won\'t ever play Carnegie Hall.

    I just think it\'s too early for kids to get flung into something as specialized as classical music. Chetham\'s probably claims to provide a \'rounded\' education but their aim is right there in the name (and in the appropriation of the word \'gifted\').

    Such schools only have to produce a handful of famous players every now and again to perpetuate themselves. Parents then believe that that same magic can be implanted (maybe) in their little wonderkind.

    I don\'t believe a single \'great player\' was ever produced by any school anywhere. It\'s always a combination of latent talent plus (usually) one \'great\' teacher (and remember that these days, often the first and best teacher gets flung out when the \'talent\' (or gift) is recognized and the \'famous\' teachers suck them up to add to their resumes).

    As a line in the movie \'Shine\' pointed out: \"It\'s a bloodsport.\"

    No offence meant to Chetham\'s or the teachers thereof. Some of the most friendly and affable shop assistants I ever met studied at Chethams.

  10. #10

    Re: WARNING! MAJOR RANT!

    RE: The Holst Demo by Bruce

    Again, this is the frustration I have sometimes with some of the people on this forum. Do you know anything about Holst? Have your ever studied any of his music? Have you seen the scores?

    If you have then you know what the correct character of that movement is. It is susposed to be light and almost kaliediscopsih (I know I just butchered the spelling of that word [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Listen to the \"Debussy\" like piece I did on his demo page....all the winds in that are Dan\'s. I defy you to tell me that doesn\'t sound like a real orchestra....

    Donnie

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